[Panelman]

John,

here's the info on the Herbie's mat for the SL1200.
Way Excellent II-3.7mm:
For turntables with mat about 5/32" thick and for VTA-adjustable turntables with semi-hollow cast platters prone to ringing. Popular choice for Technics, Garrard, Kenwood, and Pioneer turntables. (For vintage turntables without VTA/tonearm height adjustment, use whichever Way Excellent II is closest in thickness to your present mat.) Overall thickness: 3.7mm; weight: 99.grams (3.5.oz.).

Size options:

11.56" (295mm) diameter, full-size mat.

11.25" (285mm) diameter. For platters with a raised outer ridge like Technics SL-1200 series and Garrard 401, undercut-bevel platters like Garrard "Zero," and other turntables requiring a thick, slightly undersize mat.

Sean

[low.pfile]

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OK, I would like to jump back to the PSU topic for the SL12xx TT

Update...Kevin (KAB) commented on the PSU "issue" on his website:

With all this discussion I am REALLY wondering about the external KAB PSU. When I purchased my SL1210 mk5se from KAB I had kevin prewire for the external PSU-but I did not purchase the PSU. But now after reading Kevin's statement posted above (I can't seem to find it on the site though) I am wondering about just getting the strobe disabler module.... I can do that level of install (no solder). The debate over pre-stabilizer vs using stabilizer is sort of disconcerting though. I am confused. I am content now with the TT so any improvement would be icing on the cake. Maybe I can get together with John to compare our 1200s? This is my first TT so I don't know all the nuances. no one listening ever said something sounded off so it seems correct.

And the batteryspace DC supply, as a cost effective alternative, requires wiring skills to bypass the regulator, which I do not have, so not a practical solution for me. Am I missing something?


Hmmmm?




ON THE HERBIES MAT ....


FYI I bought my mat in 2007 and I don't think there were that many sizes. Mine is the 11.56" (295mm) diameter, that size is still smaller than the SL's platter. But I have mine on a SDS isoplatmat which matches the platter top surface ( and is about 2mm larger per side than the herbie mat)

I don't what they are talking about with the "raised outer edge" ...I  have a SL1210 mk 5 and the platter does not have a raised edge.





my TT for reference



all pics:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1484&pos=1


Cheers,
Ed

[vinylkid58]

I don't what they are talking about with the "raised outer edge" ...I  have a SL1210 mk 5 and the platter does not have a raised edge.

My M3D has the raised outer lip, it's about .020" (.5mm) high.

Jeff

[low.pfile]

I don't what they are talking about with the "raised outer edge" ...I  have a SL1210 mk 5 and the platter does not have a raised edge.

My M3D has the raised outer lip, it's about .020" (.5mm) high.

Jeff

Hmmm, Jeff....

Will bring my calipers home tonight. will check again.

ed

[lcrim]

The major reason that an external PSU would offer an improvement in the Technics 12xx series is that it removes all AC from the deck.  The KAB PSU includes a voltage regulator and therefore the power seen by the deck has the advantage of two regulators as it is upstream of of the onboard regulator.
In a practical sense the Technics is extremely good at running the platter at a very accurate, constant speed.  It also starts and stops the platter quite quickly.  All the rest of this discussion is in my opinion, audiophile posturing.  To suppose that a very accurate motor to start with can be made even more so and that makes a huge difference in the sound is absurd.
I still use the SDS Isoplatmat on my 1200 MKII.  The Herbie's sits on top of that.  I no longer use the record clamp as it clearly adds groove and surface noise.
I bought my deck from Kevin some years ago and it came with both the strobe disabler and outboard PSU already installed.  I had him add the tonearm rewire and watched as that was done, He lives a short distance from me and we speak regularly.  He told me about the Isoplatmat and I noted a definite increase in detail retrieval from it.  These things happened some time ago and were detailed here on this board at the time.

[jonners]

  I have neither the SDS nor the Herbies, but it would seem that because of the raised outer lip, the SDS does not sit completely flat on the platter. Some people who have both have found that the Herbies on its own is better.
  Many people (including me) have reported an improvement from upgrading the PS, but I have yet to see anyone claiming that they can actually hear a difference with the strobe disabled. In my opinion the PS upgrade is well worthwhile, though not a 'huge' improvement.
  The arguments for or against bypassing the internal regulator are at present mainly technical ones. I haven't compared the 'sound' of the two approaches and it's unlikely that many people would get the opportunity to do that.

   John

[lcrim]

I guess it must be pointed out that the SDS Isoplatmat is quite rigid comprised of two layers of different thicknesses of aluminum with a viscoelastic polymer between.  I believe this technology is known as constrained layer damping.  The Herbie's mat sits on top of this and then the record.  Screwing the record clamp down tightly would deflect the Isoplatmat in the center as it sits on the raised outer lip.  This would affect the sound negatively and hence I don't use the record clamp which in the opinion of some, also adversely affects dynamics.  I forgot to mention that my 1200 MKII also includes the hydraulic damping tray.
Actually, I recently tried both the Herbies alone and the Isoplatmat alone (readjusting VTA) and concluded that some magic is lost in breaking up the combination.  There are numerous reviews of the Isoplatmat including this one  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0706/sds_isoplatmat.htm

[low.pfile]

My M3D has the raised outer lip, it's about .020" (.5mm) high.

Jeff

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS talking about.... the 1200 does have an raised edge as Jeff stated above - making Panelman's stagement correct about the mat sizes if only placing the mat directly on the platter.

I hadn't lifted my isoplatmat for over a year and forgot about it, when I did......



And as lcrim states the isoplatmat is so rigid the platter lip does not come into play.  Went to take another pic...



This shows the rigidity of the Isoplatmat. Isoplatmat resting on the spindle. The White foam/Black Foam on top of isoplatmat is Herbies WayExcellent mat. 

Cheers, ed

[Toka]

Interesting...I didn't realize the Isoplatmat rested on the outer lip, not the "meat" of the platter.