[Brown]

Phil you are correct. I was trying to get across that the pricing is catching up. Cayin makes an excellent product line as well as Consonance and so on. If I alluded that quality was poor throughout I stand corrected. My issue is not quality, its dealer and distributor markup. The Chinese make very good products for less money however IMO the pricing recently is catching up. 

[JeffBrown]

The late Les Mertz discussed this very thing in this review over a year ago in Possitive Feedback's Jan-Feb 2007 issue.  While his issue was with Canadain equipment, the same exact anology is now true of the far east.  I can get a Quicksilver amp hand built in the good old USA for cheaper then a Cayin or Prima Luna of similar power and features.  I know the labor to build overseas is cheaper, so who is getting all that extra cash?

"...but the prices of Canadian equipment have been soaring. Of course, they're just keeping pace with the European price hikes, as the Euro and the British Pound pull away from the dollar. In the past, Canadian gear was a certified bargain, but it has now begun to surpass US-made gear at similar performance levels. I wonder where all of these price hikes will take the high-end market. It seems to me that the average guy would rather buy an HD television, which has become much cheaper than even a modest stereo system."

Just remaking a case for a dear friend not around to do it for himself anymore...

[pardales]

I have always thought that much of the best audio gear in the world was made in North America. I have owned pieces from elsewhere though (Altmann from Germany, Sony, etc.). We live in a global world now where stuff comes from all over. Even more so, "parts" of stuff comes from all over. Hard to buy something today that at least part of it is NOT made locally (whatever local means to you that is).

Right now my entire system is made from companies based in the U.S.

[lazydays]

Wow, hardly anything is made in the good ole U.S of A!  Whatever happen to our American society that only demanded US Made products???  God, everything and I mean everything is made in China, Korea, Mexico etc...  Then we wonder why American's don't have jobs...  Sad~!  but we all are the culprits of this..  Most of our audiophile gear is Made In China!  Well, can I say almost everything?   

Not at my house. I have a couple CD players that are Chinese, but their soon to be gone as well. My turntables are not made over here. All of my amps, preamps and speakers are U.S. made. My next CD player will be an Ayer as it's U.S. made. I figure the best thing we can do over here to keep the money over here.
gary

[Mike Dzurko]

"Tymphany has a China plant for manufacturing so Peerless, Scan Speak, Vifa are Chinese made products. "

Scan Speak actually is assembled in Denmark. Do some of the parts come from China? Perhaps, not sure. But I know know my shipments of Scan Speak come from the factory in Denmark. One of the reasons they are outrageously expensive.

In my 31 years at this, the only absolute I've found is that there really are no absolutes   I've gotten great quality product from China, as well as product that I had to "burn". I've experienced the same from U.S. and Euro vendors. Scan Speak and Vifa have always been extremely reliable with superb QC... but even there, I remember an issue with one particular driver (years ago). Another Euro supplier had all kinds of issues.   

[JLM]

My current system was bought in the U.S. from American companies (at least 90% of which are owned by Americans) with about 2/3rds domestic content (mostly from smaller internet based businesses).

Even to say if companies are "American" you must define business location, point of manufacturing, ownership, percent of content, etc.  My Toyotas were both made in American and are about 70% domestic content.  Hard to say where their stockholders are from.  And you can play legal games trying to figure out where the headquarters for "Toyota U.S.A." versus "Toyota International" versus "Toyota Whatever" is located.

[lazydays]

Wow, hardly anything is made in the good ole U.S of A!  Whatever happen to our American society that only demanded US Made products???  God, everything and I mean everything is made in China, Korea, Mexico etc...  Then we wonder why American's don't have jobs...  Sad~!  but we all are the culprits of this..  Most of our audiophile gear is Made In China!  Well, can I say almost everything?   

Does the phrase greedy,  union labor and illegals mean anything to you. Now add in the cost of government regulation and your $1000 amp costs $3000 if made in the USA. You want to fix it, fire Congress.

this is a cop out, and you know it! The most productive workers in the world is a U.S. (probably Canada too) worker. This proven out hundreds of times each and every year. Many of the workers also belong to Unions just like the local school teachers and fireman. Congress is what's wrong in the work place right now! And don't even bring up that wage crap, cause it actually means very little in the end. It's what you did in the hour you worked. I've been on both sides so get you facts right.
gary

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

Well perhaps I'd better move to the US because almost all my system is made in your country.  Here is my list:

Bel canto pre1
Perpetual technologies p3a/p1a
2 X N.E.W. 20.1's
Son of Ampzilla
Ps Audio hca 2
Salk sound speakers
Nuforce speakers

Btw great gear imo.

Regards

Rod

[lazydays]

My current system was bought in the U.S. from American companies (at least 90% of which are owned by Americans) with about 2/3rds domestic content (mostly from smaller internet based businesses).

Even to say if companies are "American" you must define business location, point of manufacturing, ownership, percent of content, etc.  My Toyotas were both made in American and are about 70% domestic content.  Hard to say where their stockholders are from.  And you can play legal games trying to figure out where the headquarters for "Toyota U.S.A." versus "Toyota International" versus "Toyota Whatever" is located.

maybe you need to take a serious tour of a Toyota plant (I have several times). Goto the shipping and recieving area and look at all the Asian boxes that are packed inside a North American box. Look at the equipment they use. I doubt that they would make 40% actual content if they didn't rebox everything. But they do build most of their engines over here (not sure about transmissions but think they may be). The steel they use is source out of the far east except for sheet metal (and it's not very good stuff at that). The wire is right outta Korea and China. They won't even use American paint or glass! Next time you drive by one of their plants take a long look at all the "sea freight containers" parked out back.
gary

[Vinyl-Addict]

This may or may not be of interest but if you go to this link, there is an interview with a woman who made it mandatory to live without buying goods made in China. It's pretty interesting really. She wrote a book on it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12056295 (Click on listen now)

The book can be found here.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470116137/npr-5-20

I build my own products here in the US using raw materials made here in the USA. The Chinese go as far as "diluting" or degrading the quality of their raw materials to save money. They also do other very interesting things regarding their manufacturing processes in order to streamline and save leadtime. I would not buy a Chinese built amplifier since I just don't trust that the metal used in the various key amplifier parts will stand the test of time.

[soundbitten1]

If you have an American flag most likely it's made in China too .

[lazydays]

   Be reminded that not all goods manf. in China are less expensive. The pricing has caught up and the difference in price may not be worth the difference in quality.

Also be reminded that not all goods manufactured in China are of poor quality...

(disclosure: I am a dealer for Cayin, a Chinese audio manufacturer.  I became a dealer for them because of what I perceived to be excellent quality products as well as strong price/performance and solid distributor support).

count me in the group that's still waiting to be convinced
gary

[lazydays]

If you have an American flag most likely it's made in China too .

not mine. It has made in the USA written in the end of the box it came in
gary

[ooheadsoo]

That may or may not be true, but isn't it true that the flag only needs to have been placed inside the box before shipping for the made in USA mark to be legally valid?

[Watson]

That may or may not be true, but isn't it true that the flag only needs to have been placed inside the box before shipping for the made in USA mark to be legally valid?

Not really, but it's not entirely false. The FTC (which enforces this) uses a "reasonableness" standard. Where this gets into trouble is when the bulk of the raw materials are foreign but also cheap and there's some additional step involving US labor at the end. Because US labor is expensive, most of the actual product could be made overseas but that last step is sometimes enough to constitute a substantial fraction of the total product and qualify for the designation.

e.g. Let's say the flag fabric and weaving is done in China for $0.75, but then it's imported and the halyard rivets are added in the USA, along with folding and packaging. Let's say that additional work is worth $2.00. Then the product is 73% American made, enough to generally qualify for the Made In USA mark, even though the bulk of the flag was made in China.

You can read a bit more about it here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

[lazydays]

That may or may not be true, but isn't it true that the flag only needs to have been placed inside the box before shipping for the made in USA mark to be legally valid?

your quite right! But I well remember when this flag was given to me that there was some question about where it came from (place I worked for gave it to me) as the hats they gave the year before ended up being Chicom, when they were supposed to have been made in the USA (as per supplier). These flags were made by a company in Pennsylvania who actually enclosed photos from the insides of their plant. Back to the hats: they actually took the supplier of the hats to court, and won a large settlement for breech of contract. That money was given to the Salvation Army and a couple others (it was over $25K). I never wore the hat, but still have it.
gary

[lazydays]

Just to touch base with the Audio end of the quagmire
My amps are from Odyssey, and except for the transformers and wire (German) they are all made right here in the USA. Before you ask my amps have the glass ceiling boards in them. The new amps have the transformers wound in Canada; so I'm told. My preamp is made here except for the tubes of course. My phono stage is made by George Wright in the Northwest (cannot remember if it Oregon or Washington State). The Marantz CD player is Japanese (leastwise they claim it is). The Sansui tuner (TU717) is Japanese. My turntable is a German Acoustic Signature with a SME tonearm (English?). Cartridge is a Denon 103 something. All my cables are from here except for a pair of MIT's not being used at the moment. All my power cords are now Gronenberg except for one (Gronenberg wire), but not at all sure where the ends came from. The rest of my cables are all Gronenberg with WBT ends built to my own spec.
My speakers are from Odyssey. The cabnets are made in Indy, but the drivers are made overseas. The crossovers are domestic.
     In my upstairs system the amps are Chinese (ASL wave eights), and just have not been able to get a deal on a pair of Quicksilver monos yet (I want the 25 watt ones). The preamp is Conrad Johnson. The CD transport is probably Chinese as it's a Cal Delta. The DAC is an MSB Half Nelson (getting extremely long in the tooth). The SACD player is from Sony and I'd suspect it's Chicom. I have a couple Japanese Onkyo tuners that are not in that system right now, as well as two tape decks that are Japanese. Speakers are a pair of Dennis Had built Soliloquys on stands built in Canada. Cables are all Synergistics and the speaker cables are from Cardas built at my house with WBT ends. It's not too bad of a bedroom system, and as it sets right now I have about $1200 in it. The amps suck, and have been rebuilt twice. The transport may last another year or two at best.
    It's hard to get by not owning Chinese stuff for sure (as you can see here). And what I didn't tell you is what's in my storage rack. Most all of it's US or European content (one Music Hall P.O.S. turntable) except for an ASL 2004 preamp. Once (and if ever) I get the Quicksiver amps; I'm giving away all the ASL stuff.
gary

[PhilNYC]

   Be reminded that not all goods manf. in China are less expensive. The pricing has caught up and the difference in price may not be worth the difference in quality.

Also be reminded that not all goods manufactured in China are of poor quality...

(disclosure: I am a dealer for Cayin, a Chinese audio manufacturer.  I became a dealer for them because of what I perceived to be excellent quality products as well as strong price/performance and solid distributor support).

count me in the group that's still waiting to be convinced
gary

What would convince you?

[Kevin Haskins]

I have three kids that were not made in the USA and they are just as good as the one that was.     

[Mike Dzurko]

I have three kids that were not made in the USA and they are just as good as the one that was.     

Kevin:

That is absolutely beautiful . . . . may be one of the coolest sentences I've ever read