[geowak]

I am interested in the following two integrated amplifiers:

NAD C372 integrated Amplifier
Bel Canto e.One S300iu integrated amplifier

Any thoughts on these two units? Or ANOTHER one!

Budget is $1000 to $2000. Here is some info about what I am interested in-

1 Enough power for a medium size room- with no audible amp strain
2 LOW NOISE unit
3 Good tonal balance and a can produce low, mid and high frequencies without bloom, harshness and with smooth midrange.
4 Neutral in presentation of the music (not warm or otherwise adding it’s own sonic signature)
5 Wide soundstage
6 Dynamics, microdynamics and quick transient response
7 Great detail
8 Musical

I will be using a Benchmark DAC with an optical switch between a Rega Apollo as a transport or
Itunes library played through a Slimdevices Squeezebox. Speakers will be 4ohm floorstanders or 6ohm bookshelf of average sensitivity.

I can also use my Benchmark as a preamp, if anyone has any OTHER suggestions for an integrated OR stand alone power amplifier.

Thanks

[maxwalrath]

I A/B'ed a NAD 370 against a $325 Jolida 301 and preferred the Jolida...I don't know how the 372 differs...but there ya go.  Without putting all your stock in reviews, I think the Bel Canto won a lunar eclipse award from 6 moons, fwiw

[Quiet Earth]

Last September I helped a family member purchase a new integrated amp. We settled on the little NAD C315BEE because of the space restriction in her entertainment unit. I had the amplifier over here for a week or so to run it in and test it out. All I can say is wow, I am really surprised that you can get such a decent amp with remote for so little money. It sounded just fine driving a semi-efficient floorstanding speaker and also an inefficient bookshelf speaker in a 13x20 room. Occasionally it sounded fantastic - especially considering the cost and the fun factor. I just used CD as a source. (Audio Note DAC, but I am familiar with the Benchmark DAC. I still have mine.)

I would be seriously tempted to settle for its bigger brother, the NAD C325BEE and use the rest of the money to buy more music.

[topround]

If you are not adverse to tubes, how about a Cayin tube integrated, I have personally played with one and found it to be great. Remote, and good looking too.
It is a low anxiety purchase, you might get a good deal on one used.
Especially now.

mike

[timind]

I owned the C352 as an interim after selling my Classe CAP-151. Maybe I was just tired of the Classe but I honestly preferred the sound from the NAD. The NAD was replaced by a Bel Canto eVo2i which is still have in use. I also briefly used a Bel Canto S-300 through the pre out of the eVo2i. This was very informative as I was looking at the S-300i also. Maybe it was a mismatch with the eVo2i as a preamp but the combo wasn't close to the eVo2i alone.
Not the exact comparison but in the ball park.

[saisunil]

I have heard good things about the following:
And you can get a good price for them in used market these days
Naim Nait 5i
Marantz PM11S1
Electrocompaniet ECI-4
New Creek
You can also use Tubed integrated amps and get what you are looking for with some tube rolling.
Electro Harmonix Tubes in general have very neutral presentation

This is a good time for buying something used!

[Stu Pitt]

saisunil hit the nail on the head with his post.  There's a ton of great stuff for great prices available on the used market these days.  In the $1k-$2k range, there is a lot of stuff.  In addition to what he listed, I'd add the following -

Simaudio i3 or i5 - get the Moon series, not the Celeste or regular Sim series.  The Moon series is better.
Bryston B60 - I own one and love it
Rega Mira 3
Plinius
Exposure
Classe

If you want to play with tubes - Manley Stingray

Any of these will run circles around the NAD.  I'm not bashing NAD; I owned NAD for many years.  They're a great value for the money, especially at the lower end.  They're just not in the same class as the stuff listed here.  Just my opinions, and some will disagree.

I went with a Bryston B60 due to several factors.  I liked the sound the best, it had the right options (remote and phono), and it still had about 15 years of warranty at the time.  Bryston has a 20 year transferable warranty, making them an extremely safe bet used.

There's a guy on Audiogon selling a Bryston B100 for about $2100.  If I had the money, I'd be all over that.  Just make sure if you buy a Bryston built after 2006, it has a bill of sale from an authorized dealer.  I'm not 100% sure of the date, Bryston's website has it somewhere.

[pardales]

NAD make great, affordable gear. The C370 is one of my all time favorite amps; I have preferred it to many big name maps. I do not know how the 372 compares but would guess it is a fine performer as I believe it to be the direct descendant of the 370.

Beyond that, you might also consider the YBA DT integrated that runs anywhere from $750-$900 used; there are always a few on Audiogon. I have never heard that bel Canto.

[Steidl Guitars]

geowalk,

I too like NAD's sound and have owned (and recommended) their gear, but I'd think that given your criterion 4, it might not be the ideal choice for you.  See, what I like about NAD is the bit of warmth it offers. 

I bought a Bel Canto S300i recently (right here from the AC classifieds) to give class D a try, and in my opinion, I think it would be a better match for the criteria you list.  I think it is a very very nice amp with remarkable detail in the mids; quiet as a mouse.  You can also add a tube pre-amp in the future if you feel the need.  I tried it in my main rig that way and it was very nice.  Now I'm running it in a bedroom system with the internal pre, and it's been a treat. 

Good luck,
Bob

[mcullinan]

Integrated might be the way to go.... The Benchmark as a pre aint gonna cut it...
Which one... idk..

What speakers do you have... maybe I missed that.
Mike

[sbrtoy]

PS Audio Trio Integrated is virtually identical to the Bel Canto for less $$, plus you don't need the 300iu as you already have a DAC and aren't running USB, the standard version is $1995.  It sounds like you are in the solid-state realm based on your preferences, but the Vincent Hybrids are very nice sounding as well and will drive almost any speaker to loud levels. 

A used NAD M3 integrated would be a great choice as well in that price range, really well built unit.

[geowak]

Thanks to all for your input-

A few questions and additions-

I have used tube gear and not crazy about it. Leaning toward any equipment that does not introduce any noise ie (buzz or hum) if that is tube stuff great.
 
Mcullian- why not the Benchmark as a pre? Only problem I know of is the lack of inputs, sonically it does sound very neutral.

sbrtoy- you are correct, maybe the Bel Canto standard version would be a better match, since I hace an external DAC. I will look at the PS Audio Trio too.

Steidl Guitars- I like the idea a Bel Canto s300i "quiet as a mouse" as you described yours to be. Please feel free to share more about this piece.

Stu- you listed many great units, I will look at them. I will check out the Bryson B60, as it seems to fit the bill for my list. Like I mentioned to Steidle please feel free to share more about this piece.

Saisunil- You also mentioned some nice gear. I have had good luck with Marantz before and I will look at the Naim piece further.

To all others- I am still interested in the NAD gear. Although I have not owned any, many have said it can hold it's own against gear twice it's price. I will look at the BEE gear, but if I purchase one, it will be a new NAD unit.

My feeling is that I would RATHER get owners feedback than the pro reviewers. The mags only review products that advertise in those same mags, and I know other gear out there that is very good. If I could afford some Salk speakers, I would certainly buy a pair. Keep your personal comments coming, we can all benefit from them.

[nathanm]

I thought this thread was from a woman looking for a date.

[geowak]

nathan

nice 4x5 b&w work on flickr.
And no I am not looking for a date just a good integrated amp.

[wilsynet]

NAD C372 integrated Amplifier
Bel Canto e.One S300iu integrated amplifier

I have owned the NAD C370BEE and the Bel Canto e.One S300iu.  At the time my speakers were (and still are) the Zu Druids and I used the Benchmark DAC as source (since moved on to the Red Wine Isabellina).  I believe the C370BEE is likely very similar to the C372.

The NAD is warmer, verging on dark.  The Bel Canto is more neutral, bordering on clinical.

If you're looking for a solid state integrated in the less than $1000 price range, I have also owned the Rega Mira, and believe it is more neutral than the NAD, and more musical than the Bel Canto.

My all time favourite integrated amplifier, and the one I own today, is the Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2.  It is dead quiet and when you hear it you will say to yourself "Ah.  That's what Vinnie means when he says 'sonic purity'.  I get it now".  It can easily drive many speakers despite it's conservative 30wpc.  There are a number of units on Audiogon right now, and also AC member IronLion is selling his here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61359.0

If the 30.2 doesn't suit your needs, then I'd recommend a tube integrated.  They are not all full of hum and buzz.  For example, I owned the Antique Sound Labs AQ-1001DT and paired it with the very efficient Zu Druids and there was never any hum.

The Prima Luna Prologue One is very well regarded, as is the Eastern Electric Minimax.

[MaxCast]

geowak, I don't want to go against the flow here, but why are you not picking out speakers first?

[Imperial]

My tweaky side awakes...

Nad is constructed by a Nordic dude called Bjorn Edvardsen. (BEE = Bjorn Erik Edvardsen..)
He has chosen very early on to use a "jumper" between the pre and amp parts of his integrated amps.
One can subtly alter the sound, and even improve upon the sound of these medium size integrated.
What you do is that you replace the "metal" jumper with a very small RCA-RCA jumper signal cable.
I've had great success with Audioquest silver types for this kind of use.
I would also assume that a very short Jena labs jumper would work as well, with a bit more oomph to the sound.

A Nad C372 with a properly chosen "jumper" is a small dynamo of an amp!!!! With the standard jumper in place you loose just a bit
of the "air" this type of amp can convey. A presentation that in some instances can be beneficial.

I believe not since the Nad 3020, a Nad amp (C372) has been received so well (Apart from the Nad M3 of course..) by those who also have heard the 3020... it is indeed a sweetspot in the Nad line!

The Nad C372 have had a revision to it's powersupply so there are two versions of it: V1 and V2.. You WANT the V2 type!!
The poweramp only type of this Nad is called C272, it also has had a powersupply revision.
The Nads are SILENT running, producing NO noise even into a 105db sensitive speaker...

But... and I would recommend doing this, Nad has a "tweaked" version called the NAD C 375BEE... it is a marvel of an integrated.
Get the NAD C 375BEE! It simply is a better amp! $1299 I believe is the list for it. (The poweramp 'only' version is called  C 275BEE.



Imperial

[geowak]

I have MA Br2 bookshelf speakers and Snell e-5 floorstanders. I also borrow my friends Wilson Audio Duette's when he buys new speakers (which is quite often)

Thanks for the history of NAD There is a place about 45min away that I can hear the C372 and I probably will listen to it. But as of right now the bel canto 300i really captures my interest

[markC]

I've had a couple of NAD's over the years and IMO they are good bang for the buck. Hell, I still use a 20 yr. old NAD amp in my AV system.
The beauty of the jumpers is that down the road you can try different pre's and amps while utilizing the pre or amp of the NAD. I used the pre of my NAD integrated for a few years when I first moved to separates.

[Quiet Earth]

My tweaky side awakes...


What you do is that you replace the "metal" jumper with a very small RCA-RCA jumper signal cable.

No jumper on the little 315BEE. Nada. Probably a cost cutting measure to eliminate a few connections.


Good point on the jumper syndrome of those integrateds though. If you really want to do it right, just pop the top cover and solder in a small piece of your favorite hook up wire. Save big money on jumpers and eliminate four connectors at the same time.