New OB project

kalimero · « **on:** 2 Dec 2008, 11:00 pm »

I am plan to make OB. The shape is pear. 4 way. Drivers: Eminence delta 15a up to 400Hz, Visaton BG20 from 200 to 800Hz, Fostex FE107E from 800 to 5K and Visaton TW6NG from 5K. Size 46cm (18") x 100cm (40"). Any ideas about Crossover?

M

panomaniac · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 04:18 pm »

Is there some special reason you want to go 4 way? 3 way can be hard enough to do right.
The drivers you mention will cover a lot more than you are using them for. Why the division of the mids?

kalimero · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 10:24 pm »

I am using tube amps (EL84, EL34, 5881) and I want to have a flat load impedance curve as far as possible.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 10:33 pm »

I'm with panomaniac on this, less is more, especially with tube amps IMO.

Lin

PS Welcome to AC kalimero

panomaniac · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 11:29 pm »

Well, while the flat impendance curve is a noble goal, I think you are just complicating your life for nothing. Really, a good 3 way OB will make you - and your amps - very happy.
Are you thinking of a passive x-over? It's going to be faster and easier to do it active, but you'll need the x-over and amps to do it.

But before you go to those extremes, please have alook at these pages.
http://www.lampizator.eu/NIRVANA/nirvana.html
http://www.lampizator.eu/SPEAKERS/PROJECTS/P17/Endorphine%20from%20Kingston%20Kitchen.html

I can not recommend these pages highly enough. Lukasz uses a very easy, very common sense approach to the Open Baffle. And he runs tube amps - of course!
You'll get great results without much money or hassle. And you can use your Visaton or something similar for the midrange.
Worth your time to have a look and a think.

zipidachimp · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 10:11 am »

lampizator's enthusiasm is infectious! I got an infection! another site with practical as well as theoretical ideas is the DECWARE site. I really like his ideas about how to start designing a speaker.

Magnetar · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 01:45 pm »

Now this IS unique! Haven't seen anything like that since I visited my Grandmother-in-law in West Virginia..

Quote from: panomaniac on 4 Dec 2008, 11:29 pm

Well, while the flat impendance curve is a noble goal, I think you are just complicating your life for nothing. Really, a good 3 way OB will make you - and your amps - very happy.
Are you thinking of a passive x-over? It's going to be faster and easier to do it active, but you'll need the x-over and amps to do it.

But before you go to those extremes, please have alook at these pages.
http://www.lampizator.eu/NIRVANA/nirvana.html
http://www.lampizator.eu/SPEAKERS/PROJECTS/P17/Endorphine%20from%20Kingston%20Kitchen.html

I can not recommend these pages highly enough. Lukasz uses a very easy, very common sense approach to the Open Baffle. And he runs tube amps - of course!
You'll get great results without much money or hassle. And you can use your Visaton or something similar for the midrange.
Worth your time to have a look and a think.

scorpion · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 03:50 pm »

Magnetar,

In fact, I think many will be interested in what you heard from this installation ?
Otherwhise,regarding the thread's purpose, I agree, there is at least one speaker to much in this setup and driver choices might be questioned.

/Erling

Magnetar · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 05:15 pm »

Never heard it - I imagine it sound good with his tube amps but I was referring to the picture - the urine on the chair... Please see the link.. http://www.lampizator.eu/NIRVANA/nirvana.html"Ooops, the picture proves how many times I managed to wet my pants while listening)" LOL

Anyway I have a 'step' grandmother-in-law I visited a while back and she likes to piss herself. I think it is the drugs she was is on, we were having a few beers with grandaddy in their double wide and she just let go and giggled like nothin happened.. then she did it again at Thanksgiving and.. giggled

Quote from: scorpion on 5 Dec 2008, 03:50 pm

Magnetar,

In fact, I think many will be interested in what you heard from this installation ?
Otherwhise,regarding the thread's purpose, I agree, there is at least one speaker to much in this setup and driver choices might be questioned.

/Erling

http://

scorpion · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 05:47 pm »

Sorry to hear,

My mother is 96. She doesn't have any Stereo so she has not these problems. Hopefully genes are carrying over for I am not that much younger.
Let's go back 4-way. Sorry because the setup is a perfect Lampizator copy.

/Erling

kalimero · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 09:44 pm »

So, I have Deltas (8 pcs), Bg20s (4pcs) and TW6NG (2pcs). Maybe is realy better to do 3 way. I made new design of baffle today. I want (wish) good lookin speakers. Of course, I want also good sound. I want to use passive XO crossover. I want to make some good looking speakers with good sound for my amps - I am importer for Tonewin amps for east Europe (www.marsaudio.eu). So if anybody have any amazing, strange, mission impossible design of OB please wellcome with design and ideas

MS (this is not initials for microshit)

scorpion · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Dec 2008, 10:43 pm »

As far as you have presented this here you have 3 types of speakers, so a 3-way ? How do you propose to set up the Deltas ?

/Erling

kyrill · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Dec 2008, 04:54 pm »

Quote from: panomaniac on 4 Dec 2008, 11:29 pm

Well, while the flat impendance curve is a noble goal, I think you are just complicating your life for nothing. Really, a good 3 way OB will make you - and your amps - very happy.
Are you thinking of a passive x-over? It's going to be faster and easier to do it active, but you'll need the x-over and amps to do it.

But before you go to those extremes, please have alook at these pages.
http://www.lampizator.eu/NIRVANA/nirvana.html
http://www.lampizator.eu/SPEAKERS/PROJECTS/P17/Endorphine%20from%20Kingston%20Kitchen.html

I can not recommend these pages highly enough. Lukasz uses a very easy, very common sense approach to the Open Baffle. And he runs tube amps - of course!
You'll get great results without much money or hassle. And you can use your Visaton or something similar for the midrange.
Worth your time to have a look and a think.

Reads like that ,yes

But after a 30 minutes search on the internet where to buy those SABA paper drivers I gave up. where can you order them?
THX DAVID

David Weil · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Dec 2008, 06:29 pm »

http://shop.ebay.de/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=greencone&_sacat=See-All-Categories

panomaniac · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Dec 2008, 02:36 am »

Yeah they are on eBay all the time. Seems to be a giant stock in Hong Kong for some reason.

But there are plenty of other great drivers out there to do the same thing. I Have a pair of 50s vintage Danish FR 8" that sing pretty well. The Hemp FR8 or FR6.5 also work well for this. The Eminence Beta 8A is a good example that's easy to find, is affordable and works well in this type of rig. Surprisingly good driver.

You just want a 6~8" driver that has no nasty peaks or cone break-up. Then you flatten the rising response with a small inductor. Works like a charm. And just think, you can swap out your midrange driver at the drop of a hat. Change the sound of the most important part of the music and decide what works for you. Stock a few small values of inductors and maybe resistors (or an L-Pad) and you can "driver roll" to your heart's content. =)

Finding open back tweeters, however, is another matter. I'm not letting go of my Grundig tweeters.

derik736 · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 05:10 pm »

@ david weil

hi david,

if you look for some vintage paper cone - full range speakers, just check this side: http://www.german-vintage-loudspeakers.com/

There´s plenty of them, not only Saba but also Isophon, Telefunken, Siemens, Nordmende etc etc...They are basically very similar since they use the same magnets (the best are DEW Magnetenfabrik Dortmund). I´m using saba Greencone 19-200 with big DEW magnests, this is the best midrange speaker that i´ve heard. I´m familiar with goodmans 201,301, altec biflex 420 and couple of others. Saba greencone is buautifull, fast, transparent,very cheap and easy to addopt. Just spend 100$ and forget the rest.

Right now i´m working on some 4 way project, using Tesla alnico woofers, altec biflex 420, saba greencone mid and tweeter. I will post some pictures as soon as i complete the project. s for Lampizator speakers - which i personally love and use at home - i can only say - IT`S THE BOMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aa

kyrill · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 05:14 pm »

Hi Derek
I hope you are right

that will save me for looking further
i hope they sound transparent as well and will
give full opportunity to my beloved and modded Jadis amps
to shine through

derik736 · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 05:48 pm »

Hi Kyrill,

believe me on that. I was also pretty amazed first time i had the opportunity to hear this set. Bought it on flea market, whole set for 35 euro. And i had some big bucks transmission line speakers from T+A with plenty of watts back then. It was that "curtain aside" effect which i miss in modern non paper speakers. Xover is very simple and works fine. Give it a try, look on ebay in Germany for "alnico" or "greencone". 100$ for midrange and tweeters should be ok...

kyrill · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Dec 2008, 11:23 pm »

i already have bought 3 greencones thru Ebay, the 3rd one from a different seller, it was only 30 euro's. i couldn't resist

hope tho have them in the house next week

David Weil · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Dec 2008, 09:05 pm »

Quote from: derik736 on 19 Dec 2008, 05:10 pm

if you look for some vintage paper cone - full range speakers, just check this side: http://www.german-vintage-loudspeakers.com/

Thank you for that link.

How about buying them new? If they make the 16 cm versions in India, they probably make other versions still in China. Could explain, why there are so many available from Hong Kong.