Is there anyone in STL ready to step up to my DIY sub challenge?

BigRick · « **on:** 2 Dec 2008, 03:00 pm »

I am shopping for a subwoofer and have pretty well made up my mind on a dealer sub, here is the challenge, and feel free to say its impossible too I want realistic but I don't personally have the know how. Can anyone make me a nice DIY sub, (i.e, wood veneer, clean box finish, built in amp sitting flush with box.) That would cost me 300$ built and be front firing, musical, and flat to below 30hz. I know its a lot to ask for, but that's why I'm calling it a challenge.

If you can't figure it out, I am WTB an HSU VTf-2 mk III for 200$, which fits the bill as close as possible. I know there are a lot of great DIY guys out there, if you just want to use this as a thread for good DIY sub parts on the cheap that is fine but the end result of this is I need a great sub 300$ sub that will compliment my new X-sls surround system.

dwarfed centipede · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 03:56 pm »

Well first, veneer is fairly expensive. In order to lower costs I would suggest paint, carpet, or vinyl laminate. And the 2nd biggest cost is the amp. In order to get a flushmount amp on the sub box, you need to either make a very large box, or get a small compact amp (which cost more for the same power). And to make it musical and flat down to 30hz, you need to port the box and it will be rather large. Also a bigger driver makes it easier to get a flatter low response. So either way you are looking at a large box, which will cost more to put finish on.

Do you care what size driver you want? 12" or 15"? Does the brand matter? How many watts do you want? I think you could build this for $300 with a cheap 15" sub ($37+shipping) and a low power amp (only 70W max). But with a 15" driver and a ported box, it should be fairly loud.

So thats ($37+shipping) + (53+shipping) = ~$110
Then you need wood, pvc pipe, wire, binding terminals, and finish. This box will probably be 3'x3'.

So yes you can build it for under $300, but you have to decide what you want to skimp on.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 04:35 pm »

Nope.... buy the Hsu. You are comparing Chinese production line labor to hand-built American paid labor. At $300 the Chinese win every time.

WerTicus · « **Reply #3 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 04:47 pm »

save your pennies until you can get a rythmik

that or a velodyne only subs worth owning.

KenSeger · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 04:57 pm »

Just out of curiosity, is the HSU VTf-2 mk III the item in black whose MSRP is $675 regular $549 and street price $499, and in wood $775 and $649 about 22x15x23 and has a "frequency response (maximum extension mode of 18Hz) (maximum output mode of 25Hz)" whatever the heck that means? Whatever happened to X Hz to Y Hz at + or - Z db as a specification?

I'm inspired to get these Concert Grands reassembled even more now. What was it that Paul Klipsch said about the laws of physics?

How about four Bozak B-199 woofers in a box about 42x42x30?

I guess I'm just very old school.

Ken

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: KenSeger on 2 Dec 2008, 04:57 pm

Just out of curiosity, is the HSU VTf-2 mk III the item in black whose MSRP is $675 regular $549 and street price $499, and in wood $775 and $649 about 22x15x23 and has a "frequency response (maximum extension mode of 18Hz) (maximum output mode of 25Hz)" whatever the heck that means? Whatever happened to X Hz Y Hz at + or - Z db as a specification?

I'm inspired to get these Concert Grands reassembled even more now. What was it that Paul Klipsch said about the laws of physics?

How about four Bozak B-199 woofers in a box about 42x42x30?

I guess I'm just very old school.

Ken

Paul Klipsch was right. Most subwoofer FR specs from commercial subs are based upon "in-room" guesstimates. There is nothing wrong with designing for in-room response but it is a poor way to report specifications because it makes assumptions about room gain. There isn't a standard for that assumption so everyone tends to make optimistic representations.

I saw a review for a powered loudspeaker that couldn't of used more than a 20L cabinet and an active driver with the surface area of an 8" report a 16Hz-30Khz in their specs. To call that optimistic would go beyond absurd.

I'd also argue the 3dB or 10dB down point is not representative. The low frequency response is a curve and it mathematically requires more than two points to represent.

BigRick · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 06:43 pm »

So far that dayton option sounds the best.
Are there any benefits to a larger amp with that dayton, what SPL would you imagine would come from a 70 watt amp on a 92db efficient driver?
How much would such a thing cost also, I don't have woodshop or even a table saw at that. Is there anyone who makes spec boxes on the cheap? Any input a far as maybe finding a MFW-15 from AV123 on the cheap would that perform like the comparable Velodyne or other sub? Thanks a ton for the help, any other suggestions of places to find a good flat response sub for less than 300$. SPL is not my biggest concern mainly accuracy.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 07:45 pm »

Parts Express offers subwoofer kits with everything you need to assemble your own.

subwoofer kits

They are priced from $320-$800.00

Read the reviews on the different products. This would be the least expensive way of getting a good sub without cutting wood yourself.

mgalusha · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 08:00 pm »

Parts Express has HSU designed subs for the "buy out" price of $200.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=309-175

dwarfed centipede · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 08:29 pm »

I think that 10" buyout sub is your cheapest solution, but won't play down to 30hz with a flat response. Since you have a price limit, it all depends on what your priorities are and what you care the most about. Iv made sub boxes with just a jigsaw and a circular saw and they turned out alright. You can even use plywood if you want to save money, althought I wouldn't advise using anything less than mdf.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 08:46 pm »

Quote from: BigRick on 2 Dec 2008, 03:00 pm

I am shopping for a subwoofer and have pretty well made up my mind on a dealer sub, here is the challenge, and feel free to say its impossible too I want realistic but I don't personally have the know how. Can anyone make me a nice DIY sub, (i.e, wood veneer, clean box finish, built in amp sitting flush with box.) That would cost me 300$ built and be front firing, musical, and flat to below 30hz. I know its a lot to ask for, but that's why I'm calling it a challenge.

- Wood veneer with nice build quality
- Built in amp
- Musical
- Flat below 30
- For $300 (labor included)

um... I'd buy the HSU

Take any one of those requirements off, and I'll build it for you.
In fact, I just gave away a box that filled two of those requirements.

Bob

Rick Craig · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Dec 2008, 08:56 pm »

Do you want someone to lose $?

Make sure that whatever you buy has nearfield or anechoic measurements to back up their claims. I would guess that many commercial subs in that price range will be -3db@ 40hz or so. If they do reach 30hz at -3db they may have very limited bandwidth and won't be able to cross above 60hz.

BigRick · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 12:45 am »

No, I don't wanna screw anybody. I just emailed Bob, if a sub that fits my needs just isn't in the stars, or in my wallet for right now than I can live without for a bit. I've seen the VTF-2 mark 3 on A'gon for 250-295 (I could be wrong it might be the regular VTF-2) and from what I have read an heard it is the only sub that really fits the bill, retail it doesn't fit my budget though. You guys are great and I've gotten a ton of info off this forum, so I figured I would probe the expertise, or at least spark some conversation I could learn something from.

I previously owned a Klipsch rw-10d which I liked alright, it was the first sub I have actually somewhat enjoyed I think it was the front firing design vs. the downward firing which usually sounds like junk to me. If that gives you any frame of reference.

KenSeger · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 12:27 pm »

Sometimes it is a matter of construction quality and execution as opposed to design theory. There is nothing inherently wrong or right with a forward versus downward firing subwoofer per se, unless the loading on the downward firing critically depends on the clearance dimension to the floor, where a thick carpet could screw it up. I had a cute little sub-woofer at one time that worked well as either a front or downward firing, an 18" Hartley-Luth in a 2x3x5 critically ported box.
Ken

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 01:40 pm »

Quote from: KenSeger on 3 Dec 2008, 12:27 pm

I had a cute little sub-woofer at one time that worked well as either a front or downward firing, an 18" Hartley-Luth in a 2x3x5 critically ported box.
Ken

LITTLE!?!?!?!?

Nick.

Joe_K · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 04:57 pm »

Do you really need an enclosure? I'm thinking for $300 you should be able to build a very nice IB sub that meets your sonic requirements. Is IB a possibility?
JK

MaxCast · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 05:36 pm »

Hey, check this out
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62217.msg559852;topicseen#new

KenSeger · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 06:15 pm »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 3 Dec 2008, 01:40 pm

Quote from: KenSeger on 3 Dec 2008, 12:27 pm
I had a cute little sub-woofer at one time that worked well as either a front or downward firing, an 18" Hartley-Luth in a 2x3x5 critically ported box.
Ken

LITTLE!?!?!?!?

Nick.

Sure little! That's in feet not meters. Hence the need for the port. aa

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Dec 2008, 06:21 pm »

Once you get to about $2K you can start having some fun. This will get you to 20Hz and a little more. That is a 6.5" midwoofer sitting on the dust cap.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2008, 04:46 pm »

Quote from: Joe_K on 3 Dec 2008, 04:57 pm

Do you really need an enclosure? I'm thinking for $300 you should be able to build a very nice IB sub that meets your sonic requirements. Is IB a possibility?

I think he lives in an apartment. Unless I'm confusing him with someone else?

Bob