[TONEPUB]

Hey guys, you've convinced me.

I'm talking to KAB about the fluid damper, rewired tonearm
and Cardas bottom plate to use a good tonearm cable with the
SL1200.

I'll be very curious to see what improvements can be had here.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey guys, you've convinced me.

I'm talking to KAB about the fluid damper, rewired tonearm
and Cardas bottom plate to use a good tonearm cable with the
SL1200.

I'll be very curious to see what improvements can be had here.

Add the outboard motor supply and strobe disabler, Jeff....you're still talking pocket change for a solid turntable.

Of any upgrade, I thought the stock feet were the biggest holdback to performance (mine didn't have even the stock rubber mat when received...so on went a Herbies Way Excllent mat immediately so I can't compare that one at all...or stock tonearm as mine was smashed). 

Damn amazing if you ask me given all the other more likely upgrade spots on this venerable deck.

John

[Wayner]

I knew we could sweet talk Jeff into something! 

Wayner

[TheChairGuy]

I knew we could sweet talk Jeff into something! 

Wayner

'Clubbed' him is more like it 

John

[Wayner]

Jeff, drink the kool-aid.....ummmmm kool aid. You know John will pester you until there is at least 10 pounds of plasticlay stuck in, on or around the base of your TT. Don't put it on the outside (like someone else we know)! 

Jeff, platiclay...................ummmmmmmmmm plasticlay.

[Airborn]

That's great, Jeff, the kool-aid won't harm you.     I'll be very interested to read your results with some of the KAB mods and see if they change your opinion of the Technics.  I can't try all the possible mods at once, but my own personal SL-1210 mod wish list looks something like this:

1. KAB tonearm fluid damper
2. KAB Cardas tonearm rewire
3. KAB outboard power supply
4. KAB strobe disabler
5. SDS Isoplatmat + Herbies Way Excellent in place of stock mat
6. Mapleshade Heavy Foot footers + 4" Mapeshade maple blocks on Isoblocks
7. LP Gear Zupreme Headshell or Sumiko Headshell

These mods should take the deck about as far as it can go, according to my research (even w/o the plasticlay ).  Please post your findings, positive or negative, when your done.

[TONEPUB]

I'm sure it will be better.

What will take a little time is to get another stock one and put the
same cartridges on each so that we can really do a proper side by
side comparison...  I've got enough duplicate MoFi discs and that's
really the way to go, keep everything else equal and just switch between
input one and two with the same record playing.  Then you can really
hear it!

I'm actually the most intrigued with the rewire of the tonearm and the damping
trough.

I've got some Sumiko headshells and am getting some custom super cool wooden
ones made from my buddy Ken at ALO audio.  If they work well, I'll let you guys
know where to get em!

[low.pfile]

I am looking forward to the JeffD review of the KAB'd 1200.

I purchased my 1210 with mods so I can't comment which is the best among them.

ed

[Brad]

Glad to see you hooked up with KAB.

Interested to hear about what you hear.
The Cardas rewire, the damping trough, and the external power supply were at the top o' my list, if I go SL1200

[TONEPUB]

Here's the big question:

With all the money required to fit the new tonearm with better wiring and install
the damping tray, etc.  Why not just fit a Rega RB 250 or 300 arm?

Other than the removable head shells, which I admit is handy...

[Wayner]

First, the RB250 and 300 have a different stylus to pivot distance then the Technics. Not that that should stop you, but the difference is quite a bit. The Technics distance is closer to the Baerwald specs anyway. If you go with a Rega, will it screw up the real neat VTA adjustment of the Technics?

Don't get me wrong, I like the Rega arm as I have a P3 with the RB-300. But I also think the Technics arm is also oustanding for a cheap stock direct drive TT. The arm is highlyy tooled.

Wayner

[TheChairGuy]

Jeff, drink the kool-aid.....ummmmm kool aid. You know John will pester you until there is at least 10 pounds of plasticlay stuck in, on or around the base of your TT. Don't put it on the outside (like someone else we know)! 

Hey, I resemble that remark 

Unless there were variations of the Technics tri-ply layering over the past 30 years, there is no room for plast-i-clay in there (believe me, I tried  )

That's what part of the deck that makes it so decent bone stock.....it already has very good feedback rejection due to it's tri-ply layering (and makes in quite sturdy for rough handling and shipping, too)

At this point I should mention that I've gone back between my JVC QL-F6 ($100 on ebay, 8 lbs of plasticlay, internally damped tonearm in horizontal and vertical directions, Isodamp sub-mat and Herbie's top mat) and the Technics SL-1200 ($125 on ebay with smashed tonearm, $3000 Origin Live Illustrious Mk. III tonearm, outboard motor supply/strobe disabler).  Both are sitting on 4 brass toes pointed headlong down into a 3.5" thick maple block.

Guess what - no difference to me in terms of enjoyment.  I might even give the slight edge to the JVC for naturalness So, I've reached this conclusion at this moment in my vinyl journey:

1.  My ancillary equipment and or room treatment needs help

2.  The JVC is a particularly a great deck and the Technics needs some help somewhere (might want to look at another modder's take on how to improve the SL-1200...particularly the attention paid to eliminating the stock Technics regulator...which KAB's outboard mod does not do - http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm)

3.  My ears are trash and/or I am a complete idiot (hey, one has to investigate all angles )

John

[macster]

Tone

I got Dibs on the P9.



M~

[TONEPUB]

Sorry dude, I'll probably die with my P9.
It's one of my favorite tables at any price...

I'm not anticipating the KAB 1200 to get anywhere
near the P9, but if it's a solid contender in the
P3-P5 range, it will be a success.

I'm really hoping that the tonearm rewire can wake
up the pushed back midrange, and I suspect it will.

There are a lot of things I like about the 1200,
so we'll see what happens.  I've got a pair of Lyra
Skala cartridges, so it will be really easy to put one
on the P9 and one on the Modded 1200 and switch back
and forth between inputs on my phono pre to compare
directly...

[kenreau]

Just to muddy the waters some... about 5 years ago when I needed to toss in the towel on my vinyl adventures, I was using a nice VPI (Mk IV?) with SAMA and a Rega RB250 arm.  It was an Origin Live modded Rega RB250 and I thought it was killer for the money.  It did not appear to hold back the table or cartridge at all imho.

Not sure what the current pricing is on these modded arms, but they do appear on agon occasionaly.  Would they be out of the rec.audio budget range for this Technic's project?

http://www.tonearm.co.uk/tonearm.htm

Kenreau

[TONEPUB]

No offense, but I've had nothing but trouble with Origin Live products.
I know some people really like them, but I've had all bad luck.

Most of them are based on Rega arms anyway, so I'd rather stick with
the original product.

[TheChairGuy]

No offense, but I've had nothing but trouble with Origin Live products.
I know some people really like them, but I've had all bad luck.

I've heard this, and I've also heard OL products have a little more consistent quality control now, too.

However, the Illustrious Mk. III tonearm I bought (used, but barely so) had goofed-up threading on the arm pillar...after the first time I used the supplied nut the threads stripped.  I found a way around that for everyday use.....and will send the arm in to the UK for eventual fix from OL (the exchange rate has gotten better since I began procrastinating  ), but that situation is simply fantastically bad form for a product costing US$2700-3000 new 

If you charge a serious price for a serious piece of audiophool kit....it ought to be pristine all the way around with the right attention to fine detail.

Had the arm been supplied with a carefully made threaded pillar, and I enjoyed the sound (quality sound is not it's issue- fortunately), I'd have probably sprung for one of their tables already. So, I agree with your contention Jeff - based on my first ownership of a product from Origin Live.

John

[dmckean]

Here's the big question:

With all the money required to fit the new tonearm with better wiring and install
the damping tray, etc.  Why not just fit a Rega RB 250 or 300 arm?

Other than the removable head shells, which I admit is handy...

Better bearings on the Technics arm and the S shape works with a wider range of cartridges. The Rega isn't all that great for cartridges like the SPUs or the EMTs.

[Kyle_C]

Add the outboard motor supply and strobe disabler, Jeff....you're still talking pocket change for a solid turntable.

Of any upgrade, I thought the stock feet were the biggest holdback to performance (mine didn't have even the stock rubber mat when received...so on went a Herbies Way Excllent mat immediately so I can't compare that one at all...or stock tonearm as mine was smashed). 

Damn amazing if you ask me given all the other more likely upgrade spots on this venerable deck.

John

I agree about the stock feet. They were a major bottleneck even with the KAB upgrades. But $30 or so will fix that problem. Try sorbothane footers or maybe spikes. The best isolation platform in the world won't matter if the stock feet are still being used.

[Kyle_C]

Here's the big question:

With all the money required to fit the new tonearm with better wiring and install
the damping tray, etc.  Why not just fit a Rega RB 250 or 300 arm?

Other than the removable head shells, which I admit is handy...

Sounds good in theory. Unfortunately, the only person I know of that took the time to detail a comparison of both ended up preferring the Technics arm over an RB-250.