[wappinghigh]

My current best set up is a LINN Chakra 4100 power amp. This is a 4 channel power amp that will deliver 56W into 8 OHms. I basically use the amp to passively "biamp" some LINN Katans. That is 2 channels to L speaker and 2 channels to R. The Katans are rated 85db for 1W at 1m at 1Khz. Min 30W amp 8 ohms.

I've been happy with this set up for a while in my main listening room, but I'm attracted to RWA to "get off the grid"..I have huge supply problems over here in Aus...

So my questions are?

1/ Will a 30.2 do..or do I need a pair of 70.2 's?

2/ If 70.2, will they match my current Linn set up..power wise....?

3/ What "British" style speakers go well..My Linn's, or how about Audionote, B+W, Epos or Quad?? Which ones in each brand???

Thanks in anticipation...

[dspringham]

Regarding "British style" speakers, I'm using Harbeth Super HL5's with the Sig 30.2 and they are a great match. The Super HL5 is the most efficient speaker in the Harbeth line and is an easy drive. The rated sensitivity is spec'd by Harbeth at 86 but this is very conservative - one of the British magazines measured it at closer to 91. The 30.2 has no problem driving this speaker and the result is warm, rich and detailed.

Dave

[Vinnie R.]

Hi wappinghigh,

The 30.2 will probably be enough if you are currently using a 56W amp, assuming you find your 56W amp to have enough power.  The RWA amps are very conservatively rated (30W RMS per channel into 8-ohms and at 0.04% THD) and there is high-current SLA battery power ("dc direct" - no ac to dc conversion and the associated "stuff" that goes into that proces: http://www.redwineaudio.com/SLA.html)

As for British speakers, I have to agree with David on the Harbeths.  They sound great with the RWA amps. 

Cheers!

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Thanks for reply Vinnnie,

The Linn amps are interesting beasts..that's max 56W into each individual channel. Max input power 300W. So I've set up my 4 channel amp, sort of like having two monoblocks.....(I think like about 50W each????) So 30.2 still OK? How do I get one in Australia?

Also I can't get Harbeths here....but I can get the others mentioned. ...anyone used those>>>

[stevenkelby]

What's your source? Any pre amp?

The 30.2 has tons of grunt but you may occasionally want slightly more gain if your source has very low output.

I had B&W DM604 and the 30.2 did great with them.

If you're in Adelaide you can borrow my 30.2.

Interstate would be ok too if you pay shippings

Steve.

[Vinnie R.]

Thanks for reply Vinnnie,

The Linn amps are interesting beasts..that's max 56W into each individual channel. Max input power 300W. So I've set up my 4 channel amp, sort of like having two monoblocks.....(I think like about 50W each????) So 30.2 still OK? How do I get one in Australia?

Also I can't get Harbeths here....but I can get the others mentioned. ...anyone used those>>>

Hi wappinghigh,

So you are currently using a 4-channel amp and wiring it as if you were bi-amping? 

The high-frequency drivers tend not to use much power, so if you configure the speakers back (using the jumpers for the low freq. and high freq. drivers) and use a 30.2, you should be fine.

We sell direct to Australia.  Please contact me via email: vinnie@redwineaudio.com


Steve,

Very kind and appreciated of you to offer to let wappinghigh borrow your 30.2!  Thank you!

Best regards,

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

OK. I'm going to try out the 30.2 should get here tomorrow via a very kind offer!

Vinnie. Can you wire up a Quake REL active sub to this amp? (google REL acoustics in UK) It has a "neutronic" hi base input which you normally wire into the left and right speaker amp binding posts...

P.S I am absolutely NOT going to do this unless you say it is 100% OK! In fact come to think of it I think I will not do this......

AB

[Vinnie R.]

Hi AB,

Vinnie. Can you wire up a Quake REL active sub to this amp?

Can you email me (or send me a link to) the Owner's Manual for this sub?  I'll check it out for you...

Thanks again to Steve for loaning his 30.2! 

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Hi Vinnie.

First Can I say a big thankyou to Steve M from South Australia for lending me his 30.2 listen to. I mean what a guy! With all the doom and gloom out there, Wall street collapsing etc etc it was an awesome gesture the world really is a remarkable place after all!

OK now some comments. Vinnie I'm no hifi dealer or anything. My passion is hifi computeraudio. I'm a member of computeraudiophile.com, customer of Mr S Nugent and general tech nerd.

So what do I think of your product? Vinnie I reckon your product is to the future of audio, what the Telsa battery operated sports car is to the future of the automobile!

It's that simple. It's that good!

I'll leave the audio hifi assessments to those who know better, but I'll add that what I really like about your amp is the way it slotted so easlily right on into my computer audio set up.

1/I've eliminated something that has been annoying me and I've been trying to solve for months with filters/"pure cables"/ground loop eliminators etc : some white noise I suspected was coming from my mac mini through my prev amp via power issues. How? Well simple. My only explanation is the 30.2 is off the grid. Awesome!

2/ I love the way the gain is set just right, so you can turn up itunes to the max, get rid of the software volume control (and it's sound degregation), and use the good old volume knob on the amp. Awesome!

3/ I love the simplicity. Who needs multi in/out connections etc when your not using other sources anyway. I chucked out my preamp/cd player/tape drive/even vinyl long ago....

4/ I love the design (Can I say that on an audio forum!)

OK some questions.

Compared to my other amp (the Linn) the sound seems to lack some separation(for want of a better expression) My guess is this is because I used the Linn to biamp my speakers (one pair of amps for treble cones, one for base driver). So I guess my way around this is to biamp them again (via a 70.2) But I can't actually separate treble and base cones...just left and right..Correct?

2/ The base wasn't quite as crisp. Could this be related to the issue above and is this improved with your twin setup? Do you know of a battery powered active sub?!


3/ What do you do about volume control when using the 70.2's?

Regards

Alex

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for posting your impressions - glad you are enjoying Steve's 30.2!

First Can I say a big thankyou to Steve M from South Australia for lending me his 30.2 listen to.

Steve's the MAN!  Thanks again! 

Compared to my other amp (the Linn) the sound seems to lack some separation(for want of a better expression) My guess is this is because I used the Linn to biamp my speakers (one pair of amps for treble cones, one for base driver). So I guess my way around this is to biamp them again (via a 70.2) But I can't actually separate treble and base cones...just left and right..Correct?

Yes - you'll definitely get better separation with the 70.2 monos, or even two Sig 30.2s.  There are a few ways to do it:

1) Four Signature 70.2 monoblocks (this would be the ultimate, but most expensive) -- One 70.2 monoblock for the bass driver and one for the treble, for each speaker.

2) Two Sig 70.2s monoblocks (one pair) -- One 70.2 monoblcok for the Left speaker, and one 70.2 monoblock for the right speaker. 

3) Two Sig 30.2s -- One 30.2 feeds each speaker, but you wire it so one channel of the 30.2 feeds the bass driver, and the other channel feeds the tweeter.  All you need to do this is feed both inputs of each 30.2 the same signal.  So a y-adapter cable with a female RCA in and two RCA male outputs.

The base wasn't quite as crisp. Could this be related to the issue above and is this improved with your twin setup?

Absolutely.  When you go with one of the options above, you are dividing up the work each amplifier has to do and the just about every aspect of the sound improves.

/ What do you do about volume control when using the 70.2's?

The Isabella is the finest choice (and if you love computer audio, the Isabella with the built-in Isabellina dac is a great value):
http://www.redwineaudio.com/Isabella.html

Now your whole system will be off-the-grid (dac, tube preamp, and amps)! 

If you are happy with your dac, the Isabella preamp (without dac) will be fine.

If you are on a tighter budget, there are less expensive preamps available (active and passive preamps) on the new/used market from other manufacturers.

Please feel free to email or call me - I'll be glad to help.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[kitten]

Hey Vinnie

Options 2 and 3 would cost the same (assuming power amps and ignoring the cost of the Y adapter cable). Would they also sound the same? I suppose option 3 would only apply in cases where a user wished to upgrade from 30.2 to something nearer the 70.2 but wanted to avoid selling the 30.2 on the used market and buying two new 70.2 monos?

From what you've written I take it that left/right channel separation will have a better result than separately powering the bass and treble?

kitten

[wappinghigh]

Hi again Vinnie.

I'd be keener on option 3. This is effectively what I did with the Linn amp. There was a big improvement doing this. Where do I get such a (decent) Y RCA cable?

Thanks again. Your product and advice is unreal....

AB

[Vinnie R.]

Hi again Vinnie.

I'd be keener on option 3. This is effectively what I did with the Linn amp. There was a big improvement doing this. Where do I get such a (decent) Y RCA cable?

Thanks again. Your product and advice is unreal....

AB

Hi Alex,

I'm not sure who makes a high-end version of this cable, but I found the type of cable you would need here:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-850

Options 2 and 3 would cost the same (assuming power amps and ignoring the cost of the Y adapter cable). Would they also sound the same?

Hi Kitten,

Good question!  Either option would be a very nice improvement.  Option 2 would be best suited if one needs more total power into 4-ohms.  Option 3 still gives you "dual-channel monoblocks" (ok, this might be an oxymoron or something), but each channel of each 30.2 is amplifying the same signal for each speaker, but one goes to the bass driver and one goes to the tweeter. 

Option 3 might actually win in sound if the extra power is not needed into 4-ohms, but this option REQUIRES the use of speakers that have separate terminals for bass and treble drivers.  Otherwise, Option 2 still gives monoblock operation, but with more output into 4-ohm.  Option 2 would be the choice if one does not have speakers that have separate terminals for bass and treble drivers, but still wants the sonic improvements of monoblock operation (and the added power into 4-ohm via the paralleled output stage of the 70.2).

From what you've written I take it that left/right channel separation will have a better result than separately powering the bass and treble?

With Option 3 above, you get BOTH    There are 4 channels (Two Sig 30.2 stereo power amps).  One 30.2 does BOTH the bass and treble drivers of one speaker, and the other 30.2 does BOTH the bass and treble drivers of the other speaker.  So you get the separation of monoblock operation (individual amps for each speaker), and the dedicated channels for bass and treble for each speaker.  aa

Hope this makes sense,

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Vinnie. This totally makes sense. Excellent explanation.

I'm off with the 30.2 to try it with a pair of Proac 1SC's. Apparently a favorite British speaker with valve heads...

tech info.....

Nominal Impedance
8 ohms
Recommended Amplifiers
20 to 100 watts
Frequency Response
38hz to 30Khz
Sensitivity
86db linear for 1 watt at 1 metre
Bass/Midrange
New five inch unit with special transparent cone. Copper magnet assembly and
phase plug mounted on die-cast chassis. High temperature voice coil.
Tweeter
ProAc three quarter inch dome unit, with honeycomb - wound voice coil.
Special damping and ferrofluid-cooled coil assembly.

Should fit within my budget. Will be able to biamp these later with another 30.2 (when I get the money!)

Catch ya and thanks for fantastic help.....AB

[Delacroix]

3) Two Sig 30.2s -- One 30.2 feeds each speaker, but you wire it so one channel of the 30.2 feeds the bass driver, and the other channel feeds the tweeter.  All you need to do this is feed both inputs of each 30.2 the same signal.  So a y-adapter cable with a female RCA in and two RCA male outputs.

So if your preamp has dual outs, could you run a pair of i/cs to each 30.2, without splitters, and get the same result?

thanks

[stevenkelby]

My pleasure guys, glad you're enjoying the amp Alex, I love it!

Steve

[kitten]

[/quote]

So if your preamp has dual outs, could you run a pair of i/cs to each 30.2, without splitters, and get the same result?

thanks


[/quote]

Yes, that's my reading of it, so with the Isabella for example you could use both outs. If I'm reading it correctly you'd need an extra pair of speaker cables as well (probably just as well for me as having congratulated myself on avoiding the tempation of the 70.2, along comes Vinnie to tempt me again with another 30.2! )

[Vinnie R.]

So if your preamp has dual outs, could you run a pair of i/cs to each 30.2, without splitters, and get the same result?

thanks

Hi Delacroix,

Correct!  You would run one pair of LEFT outputs to one Signature 30.2 (Left 1 and Left 2) and one pair of RIGHT outputs to the other Signature 30.2 (Right 1 and Right 2).

This is assuming that Left 1 and Left 2 are identical signals, and Right 1 and Right 2 are identical signals.  For the case of the Isabella, they are.

If I'm reading it correctly you'd need an extra pair of speaker cables as well

Hi kitten,

Yes... so if your speakers are configured for bi-amps (separate binding posts for bass and treble drivers per speaker), you'll need 2 pairs of speaker cables (1 pair per speaker).

along comes Vinnie to tempt me again with another 30.2!

I only do it because I care 

Best regards,

Vinnie

[wappinghigh]

Kitten: I did this with my Linn. Biamping makes a HUGE difference (alas for your wallet: here comes a present for yourself)!!

Vinnie: If you don't have your preamp, can't you get the same result as using a "Y" RCA cable, by daisy chaining 2x 30.2 amps together using their RCA in/out's?

AB

[Vinnie R.]

Kitten: I did this with my Linn. Biamping makes a HUGE difference (alas for you spend give yourself a present)!!

Vinnie: If you don'y have your preamp, can't you get the same result as using a "Y" RCA cable, by daisy chaining 2x 30.2 amps together using their RCA in/out's?

AB

Hi AB,

I forgot that the Sig 30.2 power amp has RCA output jacks 

So for your LEFT Sig 30.2, you feed the LEFT RCA cable from your preamp into the LEFT RCA input of the 30.2.  Then use a short RCA jumper cable and connect the LEFT RCA output of the 30.2 to the RIGHT RCA input of the 30.2.  This will feed the same LEFT signal to both channels of the 30.2, and you can use one channel for the bass driver of the LEFT speaker and one channel for the treble driver of the LEFT speaker.

Do the opposite for the RIGHT Sig 30.2.

Forget about the Y adapter! 

Vinnie