[TONEPUB]

Sorry guys, this one's a bust.

In the interest of full disclosure, they did give me a slight discount for two discs
($45 ea instead of $50), but with shipping I still shelled out almost $100 for this.

We used two discs, the new MoFi version of Frank Sinatra's "Nice and Easy" and
Carole King's "Tapestry".  I was going to use Kiss "Alive" but the disc got damaged
and "Tapestry" is an equally bad sounding CD; Crunchy and compressed with a fairly
rolled off high end.

Before the CD's were returned, I was notified that the MoFi disc had a bit of
digital clipping and that it could be removed, however the resulting disc would have
approximately 3db lower level.  In the interest of being able to more easily A-B,
I asked them to leave the clipping in both discs, as I felt the couple of small spots
were almost unnoticeable anyway.

Here's the reference system used for evaluation:

Preamp:  CJ Act2/series 2
Power amp:  CJ Premier 350
CD Players: Wadia 581i SE, Meridian 808.2, Naim CD555
Speakers:  MartinLogan Summits with Descent i subwoofer
Cables:  Cardas Golden ref between CD players and ACT 2, also between ACT2 and P350.
            Audioquest SUB 3 between ACT2 and Descent

            Shunyata Orion Speaker cables

            Running Springs HZ and Mongoose power cords, with Running Springs Jaco
            on separate 20A line for P350, Descent and Summits.  Addl. 20A ded. line
            with RSA Dmitri for low level components

Racks/vibration control:   Finite Elemente Pagode Signature racks and amp stand with
                                   Ceraballs under most components

Room Treatments:   GIK Tri Traps, 2 high in all corners, various assortment of GIK 242 panels
                            and Sonex Classic elsewhere.  Room has been measured and no major
                            anomalies revealed.  It's also worth noting that I had my hearing tested
                            recently and can still hear up to 19khz.


So, whether you agree with my choices of components or not, we've assembled a pretty good
reference here, with a couple top CD players.

After repeatedly listening back and forth, I could hear no differences between the two discs.
I tried the test on a few friends and staff member Marc Phillips, who's hearing I also trust.
With all of the other test subjects, I wouldn't tell them which disc was in the respective player.
And, I did not have a group of people in the room to get a mob effect going.  A couple of times
I even took it further and told one friend that the mofi disc was the "one I sent in for the expensive
treatment" to bias the test in that direction, thinking they'd take that bait.

I'm sorry to report that none of us could hear any difference between the two discs.

My issue with any kind of tweak like this is that it really has to be something noticeable enough
that even a non audiophile will at least say "Wow, that one sounds different, what did you do?"

And, I still feel very suspect of the fact that after about five emails, they still would not give me a
phone number or a contact name.  I know most people in the hifi business all over the world and
I find the secrecy very unnerving and certainly left me with no way to call the people I do know to
see if they are legitimate.

So, for now, I can not give Undigitize our blessing.  I would think long and hard before you spend
your money on this process.  If I can't hear it on my CD players, I really doubt you are going to
hear it on yours.

Let the criticism begin...

[Bob in St. Louis]

Thank you for your (financial) sacrifice Jeff.
Good information to know.

Bob

[IronLion]

I hate to have been right in advising you not to spend the money to find this out.  But, I suppose you may have (probably) saved someone here on AC from spending that money, so thanks for taking your job as a reviewer to heart- and wallet. 

[BradJudy]

Thanks for taking this on and posting your thoughts.  I'd be curious of rips of the two versions end up being identical data.  Probably not if any processing at all took place, but interesting if they were. 

[sbrtoy]

Maybe you need the secret decoder glasses to see the difference? 

Seriously, audiophiles are an incredibly gullible bunch, and it is good to see someone debunk something that has absolutely no technical merit (or even description) before people start blindly throwing money their direction.

It is kind of scary when you see what people drop money on...

[satfrat]

I'm sure undigitize will soak up some bucks before they fade away into the nite. But hopefully thanks to your $100 sacrifice, the word will get out so to keep them $$$ to a bare minimum. If online services like enjoythemusic and 6moons are giving out free advertising by announcing suspect products from unknown individuals such as undigitize, they should be just as diligent in finding out asap the legitimacy of these people. I'm sure any money taken from the audio community by undigitize will be a direct result of these unsubstantiated product announcements. So my hat is off to TONEAudio for doing what these industry product announcers usually fail to do,,,, hopefully at least a few AC'res will have not wasted their resources from a business w/o a telephone number or a persons face & name. A closet business should stay in the closet!

Cheers &  Criticism,
Robin

[TONEPUB]

well I had really hoped I would have had something interesting to report. I've since tried it with a
few inexpensive to middle range players to be sure...

Zero diff., so if this was a hoax to discredit the audiophile press, I hope I passed...

[DaveC113]

Zero diff., so if this was a hoax to discredit the audiophile press, I hope I passed...

You definitely got the hoax part right...  Maybe my theory on the cheap laptop burning cdrs was right too. 

[Bill Baker]

Interesting news Jeff. I think that with 'tweaks' such as this they will probably get many consumers that swear they hear the difference. If only to justify their outlay of cash. Many people hear a difference only because they want/need to.


 Now let's see if undigitize comments on this thread.

[Russell Dawkins]

Now let's see if undigitize comments on this thread.

Probably too busy to!   

[markC]

Great job , Jeff. One more vial of snale oil vaporized! Now where did I put my green marker?

[richidoo]

1 time out of ten these kind of offers actually materialize and offer something of value. But usually there is a real person happy and proud of their creation behind the ones that are for real. Thanks for taking the plunge for the benefit of the gang, Jeff, it's much appreciated.  I know you will keep an eye out for more exciting new innovations.
Rich

[sbrtoy]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

[JerryM]

Thanks for 'taking one for the team', Jeff. I would have been quite skeptical going into this one, and to get no reward...  Brutal.  

Your dedication and honesty are most appreciated,

Jerry

[satfrat]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

HEY,

You can make all the smarta$$ remarks you want about Machina Dynamica products but I highly respect Geoff Kait for putting himself out there for such critisizm, both on A'gon and on Audio Asylum. He's not hiding in a closet, covering himself with legal BS and he gives a 30 day MBG. THAT I respect. If you don't like the clock you can send it back. Or you can run your mouth w/o ever trying the clock. But Geoff Kait is there for both. So don't you dare compare Geoff with undigitize or the next icon you'll see will be the finger.

Cheers,
Robin

[TONEPUB]

Great job , Jeff. One more vial of snale oil vaporized! Now where did I put my green marker?

No offense, but even the green marker makes a slight diff...
(and you can buy the same one that the audiophiles were selling for $20
each at Michael's for $1.29)

But on this one, we just couldn't hear a thing.

I'm sure if they do come out here, they will say I can't hear, have a lousy system,
etc. etc, but when we reviewed the Pulserod active system last year, they spent
the better part of the morning measuring my room and found my room treatments
to be working pretty well.

Also, I've had Steve Hoffman and a number of other industry bigshots out here
that have all told me I've got great sound in my room.  Even a couple of guys that
HATE panel speakers have commented how good it all works together. So, that's not
going to hold water.

But hey, at least we tried and now when someone asks me at a show or in an email
if I've heard of this I have some data to fall back on...

And I agree with Satfrat.  I have no experience with the clock, but if they will give
you a money back guarantee, that's reputable.  If you don't hear the diff and they
refund your money, no harm no foul as far is I'm concerned.

But these guys won't even give you a name or a number!  And they tell you right
up front, no refunds no matter what!!!

[JerryM]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

HEY,

You can make all the smarta$$ remarks you want about Machina Dynamica products but I highly respect Geoff Kait for putting himself out there for such critisizm, both on A'gon and on Audio Asylum. He's not hiding in a closet, covering himself with legal BS and he gives a 30 day MBG. THAT I respect. If you don't like the clock you can send it back. Or you can run your mouth w/o ever trying the clock. But Geoff Kait is there for both. So don't you dare compare Geoff with undigitize or the next icon you'll see will be the finger.

Cheers,
Robin

 

[satfrat]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

HEY,

You can make all the smarta$$ remarks you want about Machina Dynamica products but I highly respect Geoff Kait for putting himself out there for such critisizm, both on A'gon and on Audio Asylum. He's not hiding in a closet, covering himself with legal BS and he gives a 30 day MBG. THAT I respect. If you don't like the clock you can send it back. Or you can run your mouth w/o ever trying the clock. But Geoff Kait is there for both. So don't you dare compare Geoff with undigitize or the next icon you'll see will be the finger.

Cheers,
Robin

 

 

[sbrtoy]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

HEY,

You can make all the smarta$$ remarks you want about Machina Dynamica products but I highly respect Geoff Kait for putting himself out there for such critisizm, both on A'gon and on Audio Asylum. He's not hiding in a closet, covering himself with legal BS and he gives a 30 day MBG. THAT I respect. If you don't like the clock you can send it back. Or you can run your mouth w/o ever trying the clock. But Geoff Kait is there for both. So don't you dare compare Geoff with undigitize or the next icon you'll see will be the finger.

Cheers,
Robin

Wow Robin, no humor tonight I see...Oh well, and actually I have "tried" the clock and will stick to my guns about Mr. Kait as long as I wish thank you very much...it is after all a free country. 

[satfrat]

Jeff, I have a little clock I would like you to try out....it really opened things up in my system.....
 

HEY,

You can make all the smarta$$ remarks you want about Machina Dynamica products but I highly respect Geoff Kait for putting himself out there for such critisizm, both on A'gon and on Audio Asylum. He's not hiding in a closet, covering himself with legal BS and he gives a 30 day MBG. THAT I respect. If you don't like the clock you can send it back. Or you can run your mouth w/o ever trying the clock. But Geoff Kait is there for both. So don't you dare compare Geoff with undigitize or the next icon you'll see will be the finger.

Cheers,
Robin

Wow Robin, no humor tonight I see...Oh well, and actually I have "tried" the clock and will stick to my guns about Mr. Kait as long as I wish thank you very much...it is after all a free country. 

Hey, I was laughin', wasn't I? But I will take from your "stick to my guns" remark that you indeed compare Geoff Kait to undigitaize so in the spirit of a free country and being true to my word, here ya go. 


Cheers,
Robin