VR4 gen III to VR5 Anniversary modification

duguyisheng · « **on:** 16 Oct 2008, 03:51 am »

I have the good fortune of owning the first, and perhaps only, VR 4 Gen III upgrade to the VR5 anniversary. I thought that I would recount my story and my results.

Last September, I got out that there was an upgrade path from my speaker to the VR five SE. Several inquiries and a discussion with Albert led me to understand that they would essentially open the enclosure, remove everything and install new baffle, drivers and crossovers to sonically turn my speakers to a VR five SE. This apparently have been done a number of times in the past and the procedure was well documented. To make a long story short, it was supposed to take 20-30 days but ended up taking considerably longer for good reason and with great results.

After they started working on the transformation, Albert decided that he was close enough to the anniversary edition that he wished all future speakers to leave the plant as VR five anniversary modifications. This was great but the procedure was not as well worked out and documented. They needed to do some work on the enclosure and needed to design some work on the crossovers. Albert himself was involved in this and finally I received the finished product. Externally, it looked no different than my older speakers. Joe sent me some photographs of the modifications which are present on to the stock but I cannot locate them at this time.

I would like to give you an A/B comparison between the old speakers and the new speakers with exactly the same system. I cannot because while I was waiting I did some upgrades and after they came back, I did some further upgrades. Currently, I am using an Accustic Arts transport and tube DAC, a TACT room conditioning preamp and a Simaudio amp. Cables are all from synergistic research using absolute digitals, Apex interconnects and precision research speaker cables. Each item added significantly to the synergy in the system. The signal has a weird pathway which goes from transport to preamp to DAC to amp and this is because the preamp is digitally adjusting the signal to my room.

After the speaker returned to me, I auditioned synergistic speaker cables and the difference was so striking that I ended up with an entire synergistic system. The speakers are in my living room which is approximately 16 x 25 and has a big opening on the left side into a hallway and in the back into the dining room. Since I do not have a specific room to listen, my wife is not crazy about having the speakers far into the room in standard listening locations. On Albert's old website there was an FAQ which stated that the speakers could be in corners and I felt that the Tact would help me to negotiate the speaker placement as well as the several pieces of furniture between my listening position which is 14 feet back in the speakers. (There is a stereo file review of this preamp in which they take the speakers and shove them into whatever corner and they comment on how close to perfect the sound is). The rear tweeters are turned down to about two. The speakers are angled so that the axis is several feet lateral to my listening position.

I was extremely pleased with the results. I have a beautiful system now with a soundstage that spreads across about 15 feet and with good depth. The speakers totally disappear in the sound is just realistic and beautiful. While I do not consider myself an authority audiophile, I have listened to a number of nice systems and have attended two of the Rocky Mountain audiofests. I was not jealous of anything I had heard although last year (2007), my favorites were the Vandersteen 5A and the Focal Utopia BE, if this gives you some idea of the kind of sound I am searching for.

Last weekend, I went to the Rocky Mountain show because I wanted to see how my system should sound when well set up and whether or not my modification approaches the real thing (aside from the beautiful cabinet on the real VR5 anniversary).

First of all, forgetting about price, I thought that the VR 9 (big brother to the VR5) in the large room was the best sound in the show. There was no question about that in my mind. Secondly, I know that there were some difficulties adjusting the sound in the small hotel room where the VR 5 anniversary was showing with the Moscode so I am not doing a perfect comparison to my system nor do I feel qualified to comment on small differences. However, I thought that my system sounded much better (perhaps because the large size of my room which gives me a broad soundstage, especially for orchestras) and stereophile magazine said “I think I heard the most beautiful music of all that reproduced at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in this very room (with the VR5 anniversary)..... this system excelled at (was) communicating the all-important space between the notes." So I guess I am now playing in the big leagues and can sit back and enjoy the music.

As you can tell, I'm extremely happy that I elected to do the upgrade. My next step will be to biamp my system.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 11:44 am »

WHat was the cost of the upgrade?

Mr_dingo · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 07:20 pm »

Hello.

Interesting, I have VR-4 GEN IIIHSE, so this is something that can be done? Not good for my wallet

VSA must show us some picture of this.

Regards

Fredrik

duguyisheng · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 07:26 pm »

I don't feel qualified to answer details. Anyone interested should write to Joe at customer service at Von Schweikert. Thanks.

VSA_JOE · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Oct 2008, 09:10 pm »

Hello Ken, glad to see you here sharing your experience with the Gen 3 upgrade with our fellow circle members. I will post all the info I have on this upgrade here in this thread as soon as I confirm everything with Mr. Von Schweikert (i don't want to post misleading information) What I will tell you is the upgrade uses ALL the same drivers used in our VR-5 Anniversary. Visual modifications (behind the cloth of course) will be made to the cabinet to provide time alignment.

vgregory · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 12:13 pm »

Hi Joe,

When will you post this information? Thanks

vgregory · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Nov 2008, 04:59 pm »

Bump

Jyrki N · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Dec 2008, 06:19 pm »

Hello,
interest in modificating my VR-4genlll too, please VSA give us more information.
What do we have to do and how much will it cost, thank you

-Jyrki Niskanen, Finland

Mr_dingo · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Dec 2008, 06:45 pm »

Yes come on VSA som info please.

Regards

Fredrik

Sweden next to Finland

McTwins · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 05:48 pm »

Im also interested.

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Dec 2008, 06:35 pm »

Quote from: duguyisheng on 16 Oct 2008, 03:51 am

Externally, it looked no different than my older speakers. Joe sent me some photographs of the modifications which are present on to the stock but I cannot locate them at this time.

As you can tell, I'm extremely happy that I elected to do the upgrade. My next step will be to biamp my system.

It sure would have been nice if you had taken the time to locate those modification pictures and had posted them with this very interesting thread.

Pictures would have made this thread that much more interesting, especially for those who are interested in this modification of yours.

I know I'm interested and I don't even own VS loudspeakers.

So please make the effort to laod them some day soon, pleeease?

Cheers,
Robin

VSA_JOE · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Dec 2008, 06:54 pm »

Good morning to everyone. I've had a lot of requests for information on our upgrade options for our VR-4 owners out there. I've got an early copy about our upgrade, and wanted to post it here for our customers to read. Hope this helps, if you guys got any other questions please feel free to message me. This information will be posted on our website soon.

What is the VR-5 Anniversary Upgrade?

Von Schweikert Audio is pleased to announce that their VR-5 SE speaker system, introduced in 2006, has been replaced by a highly upgraded version, now called the VR-5 Anniversary model, as Albert Von Schweikert is celebrating his 30th year in the speaker industry. The Anniversary model includes new drivers along with the required changes to the circuit to achieve synchronicity. As a result, the VR-5 Anniversary model achieves a more “musical” balance – it does sound like our “PRODUCT OF THE DECADE” VR-9SE ($90,000/pr) except at the frequency extremes, where the VR-9SE employs the powered 15” subwoofer and a ribbon super-tweeter to extend the response from 10Hz to 100kHz. The new VR-5 Anniversary has a response from 20Hz-40kHz.

Why did Von Schweikert Audio introduce the VR-5 Anniversary?

Due to ongoing research at our transducer suppliers in Europe, we’ve co-developed a superior midrange drive unit that outperforms our original Audax Aerogel cone. Although the Aerogel cone formula was the very best cone available at the time, constant R&D has brought forth a better cone material with even greater clarity and depth. Since we use the midrange driver almost full range (it has a capability of 80Hz to 11,000Hz), the improvement of the midrange unit serves to elevate the sound of the entire speaker system. Another benefit of the new crossover design results in an impedance curve that is far easier to drive; making the marriage between amplifier and speaker easier to accommodate.

VSA has provided upgrades in the past. Is there an upgrade program for current Von Schweikert owners and what models are eligible?

Absolutely! We are excited to offer the VR-5 Anniversary upgrade to any previous owners of the VR-4 designs (cloth wrap or veneered versions) as well as previous VR-5 models. Unfortunately due to cabinet constraints, we are unable to offer this upgrade to VR-4jr owners.

The upgrade includes new drivers, modification to cabinet for time alignment (if necessary), crossovers, wiring, new cloth socks (if requested), binding posts, etc., that are used in our VR-5 Anniversary Model. (The only parts we use from your “donor” pair are the cabinets and any wood trim). See our website for details on the exotic parts used in this award-winning system. The complete price of the upgrade is $14,000 plus shipping and handling. This includes a 10-year Warranty on parts and labor (not including burnt voice coils or other abuse).

I hope this helps with some of the questions some of you may have, but if you have any other questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to message me. Thanks!

vgregory · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 03:04 am »

WOW - am I reading this right - $14K for an upgrade? Previous VS upgrades never cost this much -

es347 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 03:16 am »

The VR5 anniversary is a twenty-five thousand dollar speaker. If the upgrade gets you to that level of sound, the $14K starts making sense, no?

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 03:23 am »

es347:

Doesn't make sense to me.

Cheers
Charlie

vgregory · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 11:50 am »

Quote from: es347 on 18 Dec 2008, 03:16 am

The VR5 anniversary is a twenty-five thousand dollar speaker. If the upgrade gets you to that level of sound, the $14K starts making sense, no?

No.

There are a lot of speakers in the $14K catagory that you can buy new....I don't consider this an upgrade.

es347 · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 02:55 pm »

Quote from: vgregory on 18 Dec 2008, 11:50 am

Quote from: es347 on 18 Dec 2008, 03:16 am
The VR5 anniversary is a twenty-five thousand dollar speaker. If the upgrade gets you to that level of sound, the $14K starts making sense, no?

No.

There are a lot of speakers in the $14K catagory that you can buy new....I don't consider this an upgrade.

You are absolutely correct...there are several speakers in the $14K category. Go listen to every one of them then listen to the VR5 Anniversaries.

satfrat · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 07:31 pm »

Quote from: es347 on 18 Dec 2008, 02:55 pm

Quote from: vgregory on 18 Dec 2008, 11:50 am

The VR5 anniversary is a twenty-five thousand dollar speaker. If the upgrade gets you to that level of sound, the $14K starts making sense, no?

No.

There are a lot of speakers in the $14K catagory that you can buy new....I don't consider this an upgrade.

How are you comparing a $14K loudspeaker to a $25K loudspeaker and coming to the conclusion that they are of equal quality? Sounds to me like you're comparing apples to oranges and automatically coming to the conclusion that they are equal.

Seems to me the only way to accurately come to this conclusion would be to compare the 2 side by side.

Cheers,
Robin

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VSA_JOE · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Dec 2008, 08:49 pm »

After reading a couple posts that talk about the high cost of the upgrade, we wish we could offer this system rebuild at a lower price point but costs are simply too great. Please keep in mind that for customers with an existing VR-4 cabinet, they are able to purchase the $26,000 - $28,000 VR-5 Anniversary in every way but cosmetics for roughly half the price. We believe this is a tremendous value to those wishing to achieve a greater performance from their system than they might otherwise be able to afford. In addition, for those with the VR-4SR cabinets, they have a direct upgrade path to the VR-5 Annies with all the cosmetic styling.

Von Schweikert Audio always strives to provide more value to our customers than other established high-end speaker manufacturers; those more interested in marketing than technology. This was recently highlighted in Greg Weaver's review of the VR-5 Annies where he compared them to speakers selling from $50-$100K.

Delacroix · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Dec 2008, 12:53 am »

Interesting issue, at least as far as perception of value goes. Charging $14k for an 'upgrade' does sound expensive but if, as a customer, you were offered the 5 Anni speakers at $14k (instead of $26k MSRP) if you traded in your older 4s, would it sound like a better deal? Obviously it's not identical as in that scenario you get completely new cabinets and cosmetics, but it does suggest that there is more than one way of viewing this opportunity.