What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?

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TjMV3

What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« on: 7 Oct 2008, 02:52 pm »
This probably sounds stupid to those of you who are tube vets and have knowledge and experience.  But this is something I've seen many people talk about and never really understood.

So what exactly is tube bloom and what does it sound like?

From a technical/mechanical standpoint,  what is happening within the tubes functionality that creates this "bloom" and what frequency ranges are in play or effected?

Does AVA's tube gear have "bloom"? 

I know it's probably a silly question,  but I'd like to know.  So be kind :icon_lol:

maxwalrath

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #1 on: 7 Oct 2008, 02:56 pm »
If I had to describe it technically, I would guess it's a softer sound resulting from slower rise times and decays to signals....but I'm not the first person to ask on technical matters.  I don't know how to describe the extra "air" associated with tubes.

rustneversleeps

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #2 on: 7 Oct 2008, 03:27 pm »
I would be the first one to admit that I have no clue what the heck "tube bloom" is.

From my experience, solid state equipment has more "punch", tube equipment don't have as much, but I could be wrong.

Don't know what "tube bloom" is.

miklorsmith

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #3 on: 7 Oct 2008, 03:38 pm »
Tube bloom is a kind of artificial roundness, not on the pressed disc, that closer simulates the richness in tone of real voices and instruments.  By roundness I mean through the middle of the note, not at the beginning or end.

Read that again, it doesn't make sense but that's my story.  Some will specify it as second-order harmonic distortion which may be all there is to it, or not.

There are other core competencies a great tubed piece can impart such as 3D feel, transients more of glass than metal, and a "just more human" presence.

On the downside, tubes are blamed for poor bass control, reduced dynamics, muddling, and other maladies.  These can be worked around pretty easily in a system if one tries.

I believe tubed equipment varies in sound more than SS stuff does.  And, the pieces can be more picky about what they're partnered with.  Some have tremendous "bloom" but may be too soft sounding for a person, some are lightning quick with less bloom.  Some of the latter group can still sound very "tube".  These are my favorites - See Yamamoto A-08s 45 amp that I wish I had back.

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #4 on: 7 Oct 2008, 03:55 pm »
Good question. I've wondered the same thing.
'Googling' the phrase, "What is tube bloom", yields zero results.
However the phrase, "tube amp bloom" shows snippets of audio forums where folks appear to mainly be refering to a general richness or fullness in tube sound at least that's what I get from the context of the way the word is being used. Previously I thought "tube bloom" was something that happens to the tube itself over a given period of time. Almost an undesirable trait, something like: "Your tubes will bloom a few minutes before they implode".   :o
But after a little digging, it appears to me "bloom" refers to the general sound quality of tube amps. I think.

Bob

nathanm

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #5 on: 7 Oct 2008, 04:01 pm »
You start off with a normal TSCHHHH but Tube Bloom turns into a FFSSSHHH.  Sometimes a SSSCCCHWACK becomes SCHWUURLWUK.  TTDUNKs turn into  THMUNKs.  So it musical terms you'll have this DUNN DUNNA DA DON DON BOM LAMMA LAMMA RING RANG song but through the tube amp it's more like  THWOON TWOONA DUM DUM DUM DAN FWAMMA PHLAMMA RONG RUNG.  It's not better or worse, just different.

JLM

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #6 on: 7 Oct 2008, 04:03 pm »
Tube bloom is a euphoric distortion that exagerates the "juicy syrupy fullness" of the sound.  Like any form of distortion, it will cause listener disatisfaction/burn-out eventually.  I don't associate bass bloat, muddiness, or poor traniscent response with bloom.  BTW good solid state and good tubes sound more alike than different and have none of the above forms of distortion.

miklorsmith

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #7 on: 7 Oct 2008, 04:06 pm »
Nate, your post won't make any sense to one not familiar.

It's actually damn right though.

Bloom occurs in degrees - a little is delicious, a lot is terrible.  None is never    quite    right.

martyo

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #8 on: 7 Oct 2008, 05:03 pm »
Quote
Tube bloom is a euphoric distortion that exagerates the "juicy syrupy fullness" of the sound.  Like any form of distortion, it will cause listener disatisfaction/burn-out eventually.  I don't associate bass bloat, muddiness, or poor traniscent response with bloom.  BTW good solid state and good tubes sound more alike than different and have none of the above forms of distortion.

I think JLM has a good description. My bro runs a stock Dyna FM3, a classic example, it blooms. :lol:

Quote
You start off with a normal TSCHHHH but Tube Bloom turns into a FFSSSHHH.  Sometimes a SSSCCCHWACK becomes SCHWUURLWUK.  TTDUNKs turn into  THMUNKs.  So it musical terms you'll have this DUNN DUNNA DA DON DON BOM LAMMA LAMMA RING RANG song but through the tube amp it's more like  THWOON TWOONA DUM DUM DUM DAN FWAMMA PHLAMMA RONG RUNG.  It's not better or worse, just different.

Classic nathanm  :rotflmao:

Quote
Does AVA's tube gear have "bloom"?

For the T8 (rich, thick, liquid) maybe just a tad, and Ultra 550 I would say no.

gjs_cds

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #9 on: 7 Oct 2008, 07:01 pm »
Tube bloom is a euphoric distortion that exaggerates the "juicy syrupy fullness" of the sound.  Like any form of distortion, it will cause listener dissatisfaction/burn-out eventually.  I don't associate bass bloat, muddiness, or poor transient response with bloom.  BTW good solid state and good tubes sound more alike than different and have none of the above forms of distortion.

Yeah--Ditto.  Another term for "tube bloom" is "second harmonic distortion". 

maxwalrath

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #10 on: 7 Oct 2008, 07:37 pm »

Bloom occurs in degrees - a little is delicious, a lot is terrible.  None is never    quite    right.

Well said

richidoo

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #11 on: 7 Oct 2008, 07:48 pm »
That's "euphonic," which can induce euphoria on occasion.. ;)

Euphonic was not my impression of the 6N1P T8.

ricmon

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #12 on: 7 Oct 2008, 07:59 pm »
Tube bloom is a euphoric distortion that exaggerates the "juicy syrupy fullness" of the sound.  Like any form of distortion, it will cause listener dissatisfaction/burn-out eventually.  I don't associate bass bloat, muddiness, or poor transient response with bloom.  BTW good solid state and good tubes sound more alike than different and have none of the above forms of distortion.

Yeah--Ditto.  Another term for "tube bloom" is "second harmonic distortion". 

Another take on "tube bloom" may not exactly be distortion.  My Ultra 550 had plenty of bloom.  My current amps have something called a "tubesistor" sound.  So what is tube bloom?  can't say exactly but to my ears it's the way in which the sound is proportionate through the air resulting in a sound field that some how more rich or denser than a traditional SS design.

CSI

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #13 on: 7 Oct 2008, 08:12 pm »
I've read through all the above comments on tube bloom (nathanm's being the best so far). For me, I must paraphrase the famous quote by Justice Potter Stewart on hard core porn: "I can't define it, but I know it when I see (hear) it".

Wayner

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #14 on: 7 Oct 2008, 09:40 pm »
Several of you have quite a different take on tube bloom than I do. I certainly wouldn't paraphrase is as being "un-natural", as it is a very natural occurrence for the tube to have a very lightly rounded off edges to the music, which to me is as natural as the music itself.

Yes we can say that anything done to the signal other than the original signal is distortion, but there are good distortions and bad distortions.

For example, harmonic distortions of the odd order in a high percentage can be downright awful to listen to.

For some, the razor sharp presentation of poorly designed solid state may be a distortion to them as it sounds "un-natural" or very mechanical...that old "transistor sound" if you will.

I think historically, tube gear has had a reputation for glorious midrange, while being slightly gun shy in the lower and extreme upper end. However, listening to well recorded music, especially classical or jazz really tends to allow the orchestra to build and decay in power in a more natural order. The midrange pierces the soul and it becomes very emotional because it sounds very real and what's even better, it's in your home and you can control it, it sounds like a gift from above.

The tube bloom isn't so much a sound as it is an effect. While your listening to the music, a certain passage comes along and grabs your attention. You focus on it and you become a part of it and while it lingers, blooms to a climax of totally suspended reality. You  have forgotten about your life, your troubles and woes and this music and it's tubes captured your very attention, your very soul and took you away.

That is what I call the "Tube Bloom"

Wayner

Len_Dreyer

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #15 on: 7 Oct 2008, 11:20 pm »
Here's a quote from Eddie Vaughn's Carina manual:

"If you are new to tube amplifiers, you may be unaware of the "bloom" phenomenon. You will find that after about 30 minutes of playing time, your amplifier will sound warmer and have more presence than when it was first turned on and still "cold".  After a couple of hours or so, it will "bloom" a bit more."

The Carina has a standby switch to be used for short breaks in listening sessions that preserves tube life but allows the amp to get back into this state quicker.  It's a positive phenomenon in this context.  :thumb:

grenamc

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #16 on: 7 Oct 2008, 11:30 pm »
The tube bloom isn't so much a sound as it is an effect. While your listening to the music, a certain passage comes along and grabs your attention. You focus on it and you become a part of it and while it lingers, blooms to a climax of totally suspended reality. You  have forgotten about your life, your troubles and woes and this music and it's tubes captured your very attention, your very soul and took you away.

That is what I call the "Tube Bloom"

Wayner

Now, when I read this I want to rush out and stick tubes in everything.  I presently own no tubed gear, though I have auditioned several speakers powered by tube amps/preamps.  I get this effect when I listen to music right now without tubes.  I may never leave my house if tubes take it to a new level.  I will say the times I have been exposed to vacuum tubes I have been very impressed with the music that was produced.  But each time this has happened it has been with speakers well above the ones I currently own.  I have never gotten a chance to listen for tube magic in my own system.

A couple months back I had a chance to listen to some Focal 1027Be through SS and Tube amps from the same manufacturer.  What I was most taken by was how they sounded more similar than different.  The lows and highs were slightly rolled off and the midrange was somewhat more filled out without being warmer.  It was almost intangible.

-Michael

rustneversleeps

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #17 on: 8 Oct 2008, 08:31 am »
Michael, you are missing out.....you should solder some blue jean cable right on to the tubes and give a listen....you will have "tube bloom" plus whatever cheap cable magic there is. That's it, tube tube tube, cable cable and more cable baby.

stereocilia

Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #18 on: 8 Oct 2008, 04:30 pm »
I've always understood "bloom" to mean increased gain for low-level inputs at low frequencies.  A frequency- dependent wide-dynamic-range compression, in other words.  I have no idea if this is what tubes actually do, by the way.

Tyson

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Re: What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?
« Reply #19 on: 8 Oct 2008, 06:02 pm »
Music is like pancakes (flat).  All amps produce distortion.  Tube amps produce even order distortion (sweet), SS amps produce odd order distortion (sour).  So, tubes are like syrup, and SS is like vinegar.  Granted, SS amps have a lot less total distortion that tube amps, but what would you rather have on your pancakes - a lot of syrup, or a little vinegar?