[martyo]

Anybody had a chance to do an A-B comparison of the Ultra DAC and the Insight DAC.

                                 Cheers
                                 Charlie

It's on the list, just recv'd the Insight Tues evening, maybe this weekend. Will post impressions when possible.

Hey Arthur, is that Ultra with the 6N1P's?

Thanks

[ArthurDent]

Hey Arthur, is that Ultra with the 6N1P's?

Thanks

Yes Sir it is. Initial system (re)creation last fall comprised of Ultra DAC & T-8 Pre w/6N1Ps, and Frank's upgrade of the Hafler I built 30+ years ago to the 250EX. Of course now I have to scour the budget to find funding to upgrade that to Insight status, and the power supply upgrade for the Ultra. In the classic words of Roseanne Rosannadana - "It's always something,....."   

[Toka]

Cool...looking forward to it!

[Dan Kolton]

I've been comparing the Insight DAC to the Ultra (without the latest mod.) for a few days.  Opinion as follows:
- Insight has tighter bass, perhaps not lower, but more prominent.
- Insight sounds VERY clean and detailed.  No edge or distortion.
- Ultra sounds richer in mid-bass/lower midrange.
- Ultra has deeper soundstage.

Overall, I think the Ultra sounds more real and more right on most symphonic and large chorus works.  Some of this I base on recordings of performances I have attended or been a part of.  I prefer the Insight on some small group jazz, some chamber works and most "pop" recordings.

I've decided to retain what Frank has described as "wonderful sounding euphonics" (think vinyl) and have the Ultra upgraded with the latest mod.  If you have bass shy speakers, or listen to a less "Classical" oriented mix of music, perhaps you'd prefer the Insight.  It's certainly great value for money spent.  I'd be thrilled with it if I didn't have the Ultra for comparison, and I'm a bit conflicted about my decision.

My system includes an Ultra pre-amp, a Linkwitz crossover/equalizer, ATI 6012 12 channel power amp, and Orion Plus speakers.

[Toka]

Interesting comments, Dan...thanks for sharing them. I wonder how much the latest mod will affect the Ultra...I found myself reading your comments about the Insight and thinking "yea, thats what I want!" and then reading the Ultra comments and thinking "uhh...that too!".    Part of me was hoping it would be a cut-and-dry "this one is better" kind of thing, but I suppose that is never how it goes. I like both classical/jazz and electronica/rock/pop...might just have to flip a coin. 

[ArthurDent]

Thanks for the info Dan. When you say latest mod do you mean the tubes (6N1P) or the power supply upgrade ? Will try to have the some additional comments re the Ultra 6N1p vs Insight shortly. Have been reconfiguring system for easier a/b, this involved acquisition of 2nd Inday unit. Buried with work, but will try to have things back together & provide additional comments by 1st of week.

Note that my 6N1P Ultra DAC has not had the latest power supply circuitry upgrades noted by Frank.

[Dan Kolton]

My Ultra does have the 61NP tubes, but has not yet had the power supply upgrade.
I also forgot to mention that the Insight is probably a bit more dynamic (whatever that means).

[pardales]

I have had the Insight DAC in my system for one month now. There is much air, layers to the sound, texture, a wide soundstage and great depth. It has also added complex bass.

Kudos also to the Nightshade Audio tube amp (LE-100a) which is making it ridiculously easy to hear the differences.

It should be mentioned though that the retail on the Insight DAC is over twice what my assembled Audiosector USB is.

[BrianM]

I've decided to retain what Frank has described as "wonderful sounding euphonics" (think vinyl) and have the Ultra upgraded with the latest mod.

The thing I most appreciate about the Ultra sound is this analog-like quality. You really get to hear the growth and change and decay of every single note, all the overtones, euphonics, nuance, shape, etc.  I think that's vital if you listen to a lot of acoustic music, because there are often many shades of intensity between onset and decay, which can best be heard only when reproduced in that vinyl kind of way.  The best way I can put it is, when you listen to a cello, you don't just hear "cello", you hear the constant give-and-take of two distinct sources of sound interacting with each other: the bow dragging across the strings, and the soundboard responding to that stimulus.  Not a small thing to successfully reproduce that kind of complexity!

I'd be interested to hear what the power supply upgrade does.

[rkeir]

There are so many DAC threads going at the moment that I'm not sure where to post this, especially since this is really only partly about the new Insight DAC. I've had mine for some little while, and probably like it as much as the rest of you. I have a feeling that I would like the Ultra better just from the descriptions given here, but no matter: I'm quite happy with the Insight.

What I really wanted to mention is that for the past several days, I've been playing my small collection of hybrid SACD's through the Insight. Most if not all of the hybrids feature a DSD remastered CD layer. I have to say that they are the best sounding CD's I've heard, noticeably better than the standard PCM CD's.  If you haven't tried this, and probably many of you have, do so. You're in for a pleasant surprise. There are also some CD's out now that are DSD mastered. So far, I've picked up only one of them; the Szell/Cleveland Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 5 on Sony, released in 2006. Although one can hear some tape noise, it's still the best sound I've ever heard from an old Columbia/Szell/Cleveland recording bar none. Again, it may be worth while to seek out one of these DSD discs to see if you like it.

[rustneversleeps]

I have no clue what SACD is. Don't you have to pay more for the CD itself and don't you have to have a SACD machine to play them? If you do, no thanks.

[rkeir]

No-no. The hybrids are playable on ordinary CD players. Also some of these discs are reasonably priced. For instance, the reissues of old RCA Living Stereo material are priced at only $1 more for the hybrid as compared to the CD only discs.

[kpetersonchicago]

Hi all, first time poster

I have a Telarc DSD of the ASO performing Scheherazade that sounds glorious on my regular CDP. Not sure how much the HDCD engine adds. I heard a track on our local classical station and had to buy it. The player [Genki] is very revealing and neutral w/HDCD material. This DSD sounds much more organic and engaging - analogue, I guess.

In the vein of the thread - I don't have a DAC yet, but have been very much enjoying the AVA discussions as I ponder an Insight system to give some (sadly) unused ATCs something to sing with.

Cheers