[mark funk]

Let my try that again. http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm

[Wayner]

You mentioned Neil Young. May I suggest getting Prairie Wind? Excellent recording.

Wayner

[gjs_cds]

One big thing is the Insight DAC is a 16bit (R2R) and the Philips is a 1bit (Sigma-delta) DAC. Read this http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm:smoke:

Actually--I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  The Philips chipset upconverts redbook format to 24 bit, and then sends it out to analog.  (So sayeth the manual, anyway.)  There's been some very large sample size blinded research on both low and high fidelity stereo systems (with both untrained and trained listeners) using both low and high fidelity recordings--and the data was very clear.  People cannot reliably tell the difference between redbook formatted CDs, "high definition" CDs, or upsampled CDs at normal listening levels.  The take home point from the article is that the technology used to decode the bits to an analog waveform doesn't seem to matter all that much--provided it gets the job done in a reasonable fashion.  (And both of the chipsets above do just that.)

[JoshK]

Sounds like you need some sort of noise filter for the AC of your transport.  It probably has a pretty crappy SMPS that wasn't designed well.  You could replace its power input with one of those IEC filters or you could try out something like a "Felix". 

[gjs_cds]

Sounds like you need some sort of noise filter for the AC of your transport.  It probably has a pretty crappy SMPS that wasn't designed well.  You could replace its power input with one of those IEC filters or you could try out something like a "Felix". 

"Dirty AC" ... I was wondering the same thing.

I always thought that was a bunch of BS, but Parts Express had a great sale on the Monster HTS 3500 or 3600 (I'm at work and have forgotten).  I got it for cord management more than anything else.  But to my great dismay and bewilderment, the tv picture actually did improve.  The blacks seemed significantly "blacker"...

Old news to some of you...but it was a new phenomenon to me.

[ArthurDent]

Yes, the transport makes a difference, in my experience today.

Just having the Philips DVP connected to the system and powered on reduces the quality of the sound. 
Bits are bits are bits, but noise is noise is noise.

oitp - not an expert so can't address/explain the specifics, but I can note that the Pioneer Elite DV-9 player I bought a couple of years back notes that it has a switch that by-passes/disables all video related circuitry for listening to music. They say that using that setting will clean/improve output by eliminating extraneous 'noise' sources. Will confess I haven't used it in that regard as yet, but may speak to part of what you are experiencing sound-wise with your DVP. ie regardless of output connection, there is a difference in processing between video sound & simple 2 channel music.

As to why it would impact the system simply by being there & turned on, hmmm. Sounds like a question for some of the electrical experts here on the circle. Short of it's current draw degrading the circuit overall, that one is way over my head.

I can say I experienced a notable improvement in sound stage, and quality overall when I switched from the straight Sony changer RCA outputs, to optical thru switcher to Ultra DAC then to the T-8.

Good luck finding a quick resolution so you can simply enjoy the music and your new Insight gear again.

[sueata1]

Just an observation,,,,if your buying a DVD player just to get a CD coax out,,,,I would recommend just purchasing a Cheap CD only player (with coax out).  Not only do you not have Video circuits to bypass but they are substantiely quicker in loading,,,,and a whole lot easier to navigate.....

Happy listening,,,,,

Mel

[gjs_cds]

For those who think "a transport is just a transport", check out this alternate viewpoint from the inimitable Joe Rosen --

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=general&n=126424&highlight=rosen+yikes&r=&session=

It's fun reading, guaranteed!

Funny reading--but I'm not buyin' what he's sellin'. 

[oneinthepipe]

Sounds like you need some sort of noise filter for the AC of your transport.  It probably has a pretty crappy SMPS that wasn't designed well.  You could replace its power input with one of those IEC filters or you could try out something like a "Felix". 

"Dirty AC" ... I was wondering the same thing.

I always thought that was a bunch of BS, but Parts Express had a great sale on the Monster HTS 3500 or 3600 (I'm at work and have forgotten).  I got it for cord management more than anything else.  But to my great dismay and bewilderment, the tv picture actually did improve.  The blacks seemed significantly "blacker"...

Old news to some of you...but it was a new phenomenon to me.

I am considering a Felix, but for someone without a lot of electronics skills, it might be easier and more effective to merely use a transport with a good power supply.

I won't buy anything from Monster, ever, however, because of their alleged corporate practices.  The letters between Monster and Blue Jeans Cable that are posted on Blue Jeans Cable's site are enough for me.

BTW, you folks are the greatest.   I wish that I had more to share that was of any value rather than just asking questions.   

[oneinthepipe]

You mentioned Neil Young. May I suggest getting Prairie Wind? Excellent recording.

Wayner

It's only available on Reprise, though. 

[gjs_cds]

I won't buy anything from Monster, ever, however, because of their alleged corporate practices.  The letters between Monster and Blue Jeans Cable that are posted on Blue Jeans Cable's site are enough for me.

Yeah--I can feel that sentiment *entirely*.  I normally wouldn't buy their stuff either--it's just those PartsExpress Deal of the Days that kill me.  I forgot what it was selling for, but it was an offer that I couldn't refuse.  (Not inflated price, not even "fairly priced", but seemingly downright "buy me now" cheap.)

Monster is a corporate bully; there's really no other way to describe them.

[Wayner]

You mentioned Neil Young. May I suggest getting Prairie Wind? Excellent recording.

Wayner

It's only available on Reprise, though. 

It's still a stellar recording.

Wayner  aa

[oneinthepipe]

I won't buy anything from Monster, ever, however, because of their alleged corporate practices.  The letters between Monster and Blue Jeans Cable that are posted on Blue Jeans Cable's site are enough for me.

Yeah--I can feel that sentiment *entirely*.  I normally wouldn't buy their stuff either--it's just those PartsExpress Deal of the Days that kill me.  I forgot what it was selling for, but it was an offer that I couldn't refuse.  (Not inflated price, not even "fairly priced", but seemingly downright "buy me now" cheap.)

Monster is a corporate bully; there's really no other way to describe them.

gjs_cds:

I didn't intend to be critical of your or others' Monster purchases.  I bought Monster stuff in the past; I just don't plan to buy their stuff in the future. 

[Legendlime]

When I was building my system I decided that if I was going to spend the money for a good CD player I wanted one with the ability to play SACD. At this time I don't even own any SACDs but I wanted that capability so I could grow my music collection. So, I read reviews and searched and watched and searched and waited and finally ended up with an Integra DPS-8.3 multi disc player that I got cheap from a AV clearing house. I had it hooked up straight to the preamp and it sounded great, then I went coax out into my OmegaStar DAC and the sound got even better. I'm going to try optical into a switcher next.
 Do do you think it's worth considering SACD when choosing a CD player?
 I've noticed people are willing to pay a pretty penny for some of these discs.

[DSK]

...
 Do do you think it's worth considering SACD when choosing a CD player?

Only if you already have a library of SACD's. I sold my Sony SCD-XA777ES after comparing to my Bolder modded SB/PS.

[oneinthepipe]

An A'goner bought my JoLida CDP, which I shipped today, and I ordered a Marantz CD5001 on Amazon (the CD5001 is a mass-market only CDP, it appears) this afternoon to use as a CD transport.  I hope that it is quiet enough; it uses an EI transformer rather than a toroidal transformer (as does the JoLida, IIRC).  Thankfully, my AR EB-101 is up-and-running.  I concur with Wayner; vinyl sounds terrific through the Insight preamp.

[gjs_cds]

Hey Pipe,

Did you return the Phillips?  I'm interested to hear how the two transports stack up.  And did you fool around w/ the whole "dirty electricity" theory?

[oneinthepipe]

Hey Pipe,

Did you return the Phillips?  I'm interested to hear how the two transports stack up.  And did you fool around w/ the whole "dirty electricity" theory?

The Philips only cost $39.99, and I was considering connecting it to one of my kids' TV's.  I assume that there is a lot of "dirty AC" in my house, but I suspect that my audio system's dedicated circuit alleviates some of the interference.   However, later today, I'll connect the Philips somewhere in the house and try to assess if it alters the audio system's sound.  If the Philips' "dirty AC" travels throughout my house's electrical system, I'll return it after I compare it to the Marantz, which will be delivered on Friday. 

Another AudioCircle member very generously offered to send me a Felix to test.  I understand that there is some debate regarding AC line conditioning, from both safety and effectiveness perspectives.  I am not an electrician, electrical designer, or electrical engineer, and the safety and operational issues are beyond me.  Regardless, there isn't any uncertainty that the "powered-on" Philips' mere existence in my audio system's dedicated electrical circuit created a substantial deterioration in the sound quality.  The Philips was merely plugged into an outlet on the audio system's dedicated circuit with its interconnects connected to the preamp's spare input.  The Philips wasn't being used as a source.  I was playing CDs with my former JoLida through the Insight DAC.  When I merely turned the Philips' power on, the music substantially changed for the worse.  When I turned the Philips' power off, the music returned to its previous state.  I am serious.  I heard it.  I'm not crazy.  Besides, my wife heard it, and she'll tell you that she isn't crazy, even if she won't vouch for me.

I don't know how far "dirty AC" travels.  Is having a dedicated circuit or circuits (time for a new panel) the best that I can provide, short of line conditioning appliances.  Do I need to "weed out" other "dirty AC" sources in my home.  What about my neighbors' homes?  If one of my neighbors has a Philips DVP5992/37, will that interfere with my audio quality? 

[Brett Buck]

Regardless, there isn't any uncertainty that the "powered-on" Philips' mere existence in my audio system's dedicated electrical circuit created a substantial deterioration in the sound quality.  The Philips was merely plugged into an outlet on the audio system's dedicated circuit with its interconnects connected to the preamp's spare input.  The Philips wasn't being used as a source.  I was playing CDs with my former JoLida through the Insight DAC.  When I merely turned the Philips' power on, the music substantially changed for the worse.  When I turned the Philips' power off, the music returned to its previous state.  I am serious.  I heard it.  I'm not crazy.  Besides, my wife heard it, and she'll tell you that she isn't crazy, even if she won't vouch for me.

   Don't you suppose it's EMI/RF noise getting into the front end of something?  The AC power is the best-filtered part of the system, and the least likely place for "bad sound" to get through. You've probably got 500 HP AC induction motors hooked to the same circuit somewhere, if it can handle that it can handle a 3w CD player.

      Brett

[martyo]

I would just wait for your Marantz to arrive and then take a listen. Many times there is a simple answer to these things. One thing at a time. My brother had the same problem, but ironically, he had a noisy Marantz and replaced it with the $39 Phillips and all was well.    
When I first got the HT3's they were soooo different (in a positive way), from the highly colored speakers I had for 16 years, I was very disappointed.  I was really stressing and my first instincts were to start changing components and adding subs and.........OMG, I was even considering different speakers. Now I'm amazed almost daily with the set.
By Friday evening you'll know.