[oneinthepipe]

My brother had the same problem, but ironically, he had a noisy Marantz and replaced it with the $39 Phillips and all was well.

[oneinthepipe]

Don't you suppose it's EMI/RF noise getting into the front end of something?  The AC power is the best-filtered part of the system, and the least likely place for "bad sound" to get through. You've probably got 500 HP AC induction motors hooked to the same circuit somewhere, if it can handle that it can handle a 3w CD player.

Brett

When you refer to "circuit," are you referring to the entire house or just the dedicated circuit (a circuit breaker in the panel)?  The "dedicated circuit" in my house is merely a separate 20A line connected to a separate circuit breaker in the 250A panel in my basement.  The only components connected to the "dedicated" 20A line were an AVA Insight preamp, and AVA Insight amp, an AVA Insight DAC, a JoLida JD100, and the Philips DVP.

[martyo]

My brother had the same problem, but ironically, he had a noisy Marantz and replaced it with the $39 Phillips and all was well.

I don't think it was the same Marantz. 

[oneinthepipe]

My brother had the same problem, but ironically, he had a noisy Marantz and replaced it with the $39 Phillips and all was well.

I don't think it was the same Marantz. 

It was probably a better model.

[gjs_cds]

The Philips was merely plugged into an outlet on the audio system's dedicated circuit with its interconnects connected to the preamp's spare input.  The Philips wasn't being used as a source.  I was playing CDs with my former JoLida through the Insight DAC.  When I merely turned the Philips' power on, the music substantially changed for the worse.  When I turned the Philips' power off, the music returned to its previous state.  I am serious.  I heard it.  I'm not crazy.  Besides, my wife heard it, and she'll tell you that she isn't crazy, even if she won't vouch for me.

Oh--I believe you 100%.  A couple of years ago--probably not.  But I do now.  And since I've got the same DVD player, I'm just patiently waiting around for you to solve my problem for me.    (I shared my experience w/ that power conditioner from the company who's name not be uttered.  I didn't use to believe, but now--I kinda do believe.  So if I need to dump another couple bucks into some kind of power conditioner, I'll do so.  Just waiting to see what you report! )

[Wayner]

I'd just plug the CD player into one of the outlets on Frank's preamp. Then you will share a common line for the power.

Wayner

[oneinthepipe]

I'd just plug the CD player into one of the outlets on Frank's preamp. Then you will share a common line for the power.

Wayner

Wayner:

Are you referring to the new CDP, the Marantz, that I ordered?  I planned to plug the Marantz into the preamp, if it has a two-prong power cord.  I have the DAC plugged in to the preamp, too.  The 440EX is plugged directly into the wall outlet.  Where should I plug the turntable?  I currently have it plugged into the preamp. 

I'd still like to know what you think about "surge protectors."  Are they necessary?  Do they cause any acoustic harm?

[pardales]

I was wondering if those were outlets on the back of AVA preamps (or is it just on the back of the Integrated). What components should or should one not plug into those outlets?

 

[Brett Buck]

Don't you suppose it's EMI/RF noise getting into the front end of something?  The AC power is the best-filtered part of the system, and the least likely place for "bad sound" to get through. You've probably got 500 HP AC induction motors hooked to the same circuit somewhere, if it can handle that it can handle a 3w CD player.

Brett

When you refer to "circuit," are you referring to the entire house or just the dedicated circuit (a circuit breaker in the panel)?  The "dedicated circuit" in my house is merely a separate 20A line connected to a separate circuit breaker in the 250A panel in my basement.  The only components connected to the "dedicated" 20A line were an AVA Insight preamp, and AVA Insight amp, an AVA Insight DAC, a JoLida JD100, and the Philips DVP.

     I mean somewhere else between you and the power plant. It's all hooked in parallel with your house.

     There's virtually no possibility that the signal is getting into the system from the power cord end. It's vastly more likely to be that the RF or other EMI from the CD player electronics is coupling back into your system somewhere  in the small-signal side. There's an FCC warning on CD players for a reason - they are known to generate RF.

    Brett

[oneinthepipe]

Don't you suppose it's EMI/RF noise getting into the front end of something?  The AC power is the best-filtered part of the system, and the least likely place for "bad sound" to get through. You've probably got 500 HP AC induction motors hooked to the same circuit somewhere, if it can handle that it can handle a 3w CD player.

Brett

When you refer to "circuit," are you referring to the entire house or just the dedicated circuit (a circuit breaker in the panel)?  The "dedicated circuit" in my house is merely a separate 20A line connected to a separate circuit breaker in the 250A panel in my basement.  The only components connected to the "dedicated" 20A line were an AVA Insight preamp, and AVA Insight amp, an AVA Insight DAC, a JoLida JD100, and the Philips DVP.

     I mean somewhere else between you and the power plant. It's all hooked in parallel with your house.

     There's virtually no possibility that the signal is getting into the system from the power cord end. It's vastly more likely to be that the RF or other EMI from the CD player electronics is coupling back into your system somewhere  in the small-signal side. There's an FCC warning on CD players for a reason - they are known to generate RF.

    Brett

Brett:

You're saying that when the Philips DVP was powered on, it was generating RF that was coupling back into the system, and when the Philips DVP was powered off, it would stop generating RF?   

What component would be most likely to pick up the RF?  Would the Philips DVP's distance from other components be relevant?  There was a CDP, a preamp, and a DAC.  If it was the CDP, I am currently CDP-less, and can't replicate the system.  I can try it with a turntable, however, although it wasn't connected to the system at that time.

[gjs_cds]

Hey--this may be a stupid question, but is it possible that the AC cord for the Phillips is running parallel w/ your RCA lines?

(Don't beat me; just askin'...  I'm king of stupid tax...)

[Brett Buck]

You're saying that when the Philips DVP was powered on, it was generating RF that was coupling back into the system, and when the Philips DVP was powered off, it would stop generating RF?   

What component would be most likely to pick up the RF?  Would the Philips DVP's distance from other components be relevant?  There was a CDP, a preamp, and a DAC.  If it was the CDP, I am currently CDP-less, and can't replicate the system.  I can try it with a turntable, however, although it wasn't connected to the system at that time.

     I probably won't the the turntable, unless you were listing to the turntable and had it selected at the time. It's the most likely think to pick up stray interference but it doesn't matter unless it only happens when "phono" is selected. I would guess the preamp, DAC, or the other CD player.

     Picking it up and moving it should at least change the effect. I doubt that it's an inordinately complicated issue.

      Brett

[oneinthepipe]

The only source that I have until Friday is a turntable.  I put on an LP and plugged the Philips DVP into the preamp's AC outlet.  When I powered on the DVP, there wasn't any change in sound.  I placed the DVP on top of the preamp and DAC and powered it on and off, and there wasn't any change in sound.  I plugged the DVP into other nearby AC outlets that are connected to other circuit breakers, and there wasn't any change in sound when the DVP was powered on and off either sitting on top of the preamp and DAC or several feet away from the preamp and DAC.  Although I was using the turntable as the source, and the DAC was not being used in the source output, and I don't have the JoLida CDP anymore, if the deterioration was caused by RF, it would appear that it was coming through the JoLida CDP and/or the Jolida CDP/DAC combo and not the preamp.  I'll try it with the Marantz and Marantz/DAC combo on Friday.

[oneinthepipe]

Hey--this may be a stupid question, but is it possible that the AC cord for the Phillips is running parallel w/ your RCA lines?

(Don't beat me; just askin'...  I'm king of stupid tax...)

Alongside of them?  No, I try to keep the AC cords away from the interconnect cables as much as possible.

[avahifi]

It certainly would be interesting to put that cheap Philips combo player on the test bench and try and find out just what kind of RFI it is putting out from its video circuits and where they are getting out.  Into the AC line?  Into the audio cables? Radiating from the chassis?  All of this?

I suspect something is bothering the system.

Are you saying that the Phiips DVP is only affecting the AVA DAC?  Please clarify.

This is the first time we have heard of this issue.

Frank Van Alstine

[MarkD]

I'm waiting for my Insight DAC to arrive (paid by check), but I feel confident that if my Sony DVP S5600 isn't putting noise into the system now, it won't when the DAC is installed.

I really appreciate these reviews.  I'm trying to temper my expectations, because things sound pretty good now - (FET Valve preamp, Pass Aleph 30, Legacy Signature III speakers) but some CDs just sound muddled when things get really busy - mainly because everything else is good enough to hear it now, I suppose.

If my present setup is say 75% as good as it could be, then I'm hoping the DAC puts me into the 85-90% range.  That will be enough to let me spend my money on more CDs and come back and bother AVA for the latest must have in another decade.  I think the preamp was by far the best money I ever spent on audio equipment.  It made me want to listen to music, instead of wanting music in the background.

[Charles Calkins]

Anybody had a chance to do an A-B comparison of the Ultra DAC and the Insight DAC.

                                 Cheers
                                 Charlie

[oneinthepipe]

It certainly would be interesting to put that cheap Philips combo player on the test bench and try and find out just what kind of RFI it is putting out from its video circuits and where they are getting out.  Into the AC line?  Into the audio cables? Radiating from the chassis?  All of this?

I suspect something is bothering the system.

Are you saying that the Phiips DVP is only affecting the AVA DAC?  Please clarify.

This is the first time we have heard of this issue.

Frank Van Alstine

Frank:

I stated that the Philips DVP was introducing noise into the system, and other AudioCircle members have hypothesised that the noise is "dirty AC" or RF. 

I haven't been able to replicate the noise since I sold the JoLida CDP earlier this week and disconnected it from the system, and I have only had my turntable as a source for a couple of days.  I received a Marantz CDP today, which is playing through the DAC and sounds great.  I hope to put the Philips DVP into the system later tonight, time permitting, to determine if it introduces any noise or causes any degradation in sound quality.  The problem is the Philips DVP, not the AVA equipment.  The AVA equipment is quiet and produces beautiful music both with the turntable and the Marantz CDP/DAC as the source.

The whole issue came up before when I had the JoLida/DAC and the Philips connected at the same time, and when the Philips was powered on, even though it wasn't selected as the source, the mere powering on of the Philips caused a decrease in volume and a degradation in sound quality.  The JoLida/DAC was the source.

[oneinthepipe]

My wife and I spent more than an hour listening to the Insight system in a variety of configurations with the Philips DVP.  In a nutshell, when the Philips was "powered on," whether or not there were interconnects from it's analog jacks to the preamp, the volume from the speakers decreased slightly.  It didn't matter if the Philips was sitting on the DAC, the preamp, the Marantz CDP, or on the floor several feet from any other component or wire; the results were the same. The difference was less pronounced than with the JoLida CDP, which I do not have anymore, if my middle-aged, sleep-deprived brain serves me correctly.  Additionally, neither my wife nor I could detect the deterioration in sound quality that we heard using the JoLida CDP as a transport when the Philips DVP was powered on and off; we merely heard a reduction in volume.

We also listened to the Marantz' analog output in comparison to the DAC's output, with the Philips DVP completely disconnected from the system, with 1) the Marantz' digital output connected through the DAC and to the preamp's CD input and 2) the Marantz' analog output to the preamp's spare input, switching between the two outputs with the preamp's selector switch.  The differences in sound were phenomenal.  The output through the DAC was open, detailed, and clean.  The sound through the Marantz' analog output was less defined and spacious.  The sound from the Marantz' analog output, for lack of a better term, was repressed. It wasn't necessarily harsher, but there was less music, and the little sounds seemed to be missing.  (I'm sorry that I don't know the correct nomenclature.)

Lastly, I alternately connected the power cord from 1) the Philips DVP and 2) the preamp (the DAC's power cord is connected to the preamp's AC outlet, and the Marantz' CDP's power cord is connected to the DAC's AC outlet) to the AC outlet of a Felix that an AudioCircle member generously loaned me, while powering the Philips DVP on and off.  The volume decreased when the Philips DVP was powered on 1) when the Philips DVP's power cord was connected to the Felix and 2) when the preamp's power cord was connected to the Felix.  Both my wife and I thought that the decrease in volume was more pronounced when either the Philps DVP or the preamp was connected to the Felix' power outlet.  We both thought that the most significant difference was when the preamp was connected to the Felix' power outlet.  I must not understand the Felix' function, because I thought that any differences, when using the Felix, should be less pronounced rather than more pronounced.

I cannot comment about the quality of the sound when using the Felix than when not using the Felix.  My wife and I started to get very tired, and it was much more difficult trying to conduct a comparison when the system needed to be shut down and restarted than merely pushing a button or turning a knob.

The system's AC power is via a 20A dedicated circuit.  The amp, preamp, DAC, CDP, DVP, and Felix were powered from the dedicated circuit.

I don't know what the results of my "experiment" indicate.  I know that it isn't scientific.  It's just two pairs of ears listening over and over again to the same Norah Jones track.  I turned my turntable on and off, and it is connected to the preamp's AC outlet, but it didn't cause any change in the volume or quality of the sound.  I don't know if the decrease in volume is caused by RF, dirty AC, or just the result of turning another appliance's power on.

I wish that this had been more helpful.

Nonetheless, I concur with what everyone else has reported about the preamp and DAC.  The music is beautiful.  The soundstage is incredible.  This is the first time that I have ever had goose bumps listening to Led Zepplin.  I'm even getting some bass out of my Spendors.  I can't imagine how good it would be with really good speakers. 

[ArthurDent]

Anybody had a chance to do an A-B comparison of the Ultra DAC and the Insight DAC.

                                 Cheers
                                 Charlie

It's on the list, just recv'd the Insight Tues evening, maybe this weekend. Will post impressions when possible.