[jhm731]

So you just got your new Duet and you're looking for the best performance, which route would you take?

Send it out and get a $550. mod, $1850. PSU, $240. PSU AC power cable and $300 PSU DC power cable (Total cost: $2950.)

Connect the Duet's digital output to a top flight external DAC like the Van Alstine Insight ($899.)
or Bryston BDA-1 ($1995.).

Something esle?

[bpape]

A good power supply is IMO mandatory in either case.  Then you just have to decide if you want an external DAC or not along with the associated cabling, potential SPDIF impedance issues, etc. in exchange for upgradability, etc.

Bryan

[mr_bill]

Buy an Acopian linear Power Supply and hook it up to a top flight dac.  The Bryston BDA-1 is an excellent choice.  Other choices are the Benchmark Dac1 or the Bel Canto Dac 3.

[DSK]

A good power supply is IMO mandatory in either case.  Then you just have to decide if you want an external DAC or not along with the associated cabling, potential SPDIF impedance issues, etc. in exchange for upgradability, etc.

Bryan

... and overcoming possible limitations due to Duet's original design caused by budget and lack of space.

[mcullinan]

I agree that the powersupply is part of the answer. I have the CIAudio SB3 PS and  the Bryston BDA-1 which is phenomenal! Cant go wrong with these choices!
Mike

[jhm731]

Thanks for the feedback.

I already have two linears powering my Duet receiver which has been upgraded by Pat.

mcullinan- can you connect the Bryston BDA-1 directly to an amp and control volume and balance?

[Spidey9534]

Buy an Acopian linear Power Supply and hook it up to a top flight dac.  The Bryston BDA-1 is an excellent choice.  Other choices are the Benchmark Dac1 or the Bel Canto Dac 3.

mr_bill which one of these did you use for your setup? I've got an SB3 that I'd like to change out the power supply for.

Thanks

[saisunil]

I have it connected to CI Audio PS and DAC. It is quite good.
I am exploring the idea of connecting a laptop directly to a usb DAC...

Cheers
Sunil.

[mcullinan]

Thanks for the feedback.

I already have two linears powering my Duet receiver which has been upgraded by Pat.

mcullinan- can you connect the Bryston BDA-1 directly to an amp and control volume and balance?

No you need a preamp...  I suppose you could alter the volume of the duet.. but I believe you lose bits that way.
Mike

[mr_bill]

Buy an Acopian linear Power Supply and hook it up to a top flight dac.  The Bryston BDA-1 is an excellent choice.  Other choices are the Benchmark Dac1 or the Bel Canto Dac 3.

mr_bill which one of these did you use for your setup? I've got an SB3 that I'd like to change out the power supply for.

Thanks

I used the Acopian 9V 0.5amp for the Duet.  The SB3 is a 5V I believe and would need a different PS.

[cloudbaseracer]

Mr Bill,

Do you have a model number for the Acopian unit you purchased?

James

Buy an Acopian linear Power Supply and hook it up to a top flight dac.  The Bryston BDA-1 is an excellent choice.  Other choices are the Benchmark Dac1 or the Bel Canto Dac 3.

mr_bill which one of these did you use for your setup? I've got an SB3 that I'd like to change out the power supply for.

Thanks

I used the Acopian 9V 0.5amp for the Duet.  The SB3 is a 5V I believe and would need a different PS.

[jhm731]

Use the Acopian -B9G50 on the Duet, and B5G210 on the SB3 or the :
http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

[denjo]

For that kind of price range, I would certainly check out Paul Hynes' offings ( www.paulhynesdesigns.com ).

Paul is a great guy to deal with and is very knowledgeable and willing to help! I have two PSUs which feed my Altmann Attraction DAC and SB3 with supreme results!

Best Regards
Dennis

[jhm731]

For that kind of price range, I would certainly check out Paul Hynes' offings ( www.paulhynesdesigns.com ).

Paul is a great guy to deal with and is very knowledgeable and willing to help! I have two PSUs which feed my Altmann Attraction DAC and SB3 with supreme results!

Best Regards
Dennis

Dennis- the Acopian PSUs are under $150.USD, and the Welborne is $195.USD, the SR1-5 & 9 are currently $330.USD plus shipping from the UK, how is that in the same price range?

[denjo]

jhm731
Thanks for your response to my post. I did not say they were in the same price range. The Paul Hynes' PSU was suggested for comparison and consideration albeit that it was more costly. What I meant was that once you are in the USD 150 to 200 price range, some might want to s-t-r-e-t-c-h their wallets and consider one level up in terms of type, nature, design and parts quality. If I read correctly, Paul Hynes' linear PSU is a shunt regulated PSU which has better specs and should perform better than the series type. I am no expert and realise that I am in deep "technical waters" here but I hope Paul reads this and chimes in to say a few words about how the shunt regulated is far superior. Perhaps I would email him to draw his attention to this interesting thread. I am sure many will be happy with the Acopian and the Welborne Labs PSUs but for those who want the very best, they might want to consider Paul Hynes' PSU. Speaking only for myself, I did not want the PSU investment to be a case of penny-wise, pound foolish (I can quote other examples when I adopted this frugal approach only to be taught by time and experience that I should have set my sights higher). Fortunately, a PSU is an investment I would hope to buy once but well!



Best Regards
Dennis

[Tyson]

Do any of you actually DBT your purchases?  If you put a new DAC in the system do you blind test it?  Just curious.....

[woodsyi]

I can't do DBT as I have to keep my eyes open to switch back and forth.   I try to remain critical as best I can.  The best way for me to tell is to listen to my favorite music for several days.  Eventually I will pick up subtle differences for better or worse.   Then I will go back for several days.  Then back and so forth.  Ultimately, I choose the one that gets me in the right "mood" with songs.  Some times I keep gears that are exceptional with a particular music as specialized gear for a particular genre of music....

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Dennis,

The shunt regulator topology I use in some of my designs was based on a design I first used in 1988. This early design was not in the same league as the latest version because of the limits of the devices available at that time. However it beat all the three terminal regulator solutions available, at that time, providing an improved sound quality from equipment I applied it to. Shunt regulators are not very efficient and run hot. This is not too much of a problem with low to medium power regulators. but when high power regulators are required, the thermal engineering rapidly escalates to the size normally seen in the big class A amplifiers. This gets expensive. For these reasons, most of my cost conscious consultancy work invariably used more efficient series regulator designs.

The possible regulator circuit options available are just as vast as the preamplifier/amplifier circuit configurations that are available. Just like the preamp/amp options available there are some bad designs, some good designs and some that stand out from the crowd. I know this because I have two whole filing cabinet draws completely full of regulator designs and ideas that I have tried over the years. To design a good regulator you have to know what the load is up to under all operating conditions. There is no point in using a limited bandwidth three terminal regulator, with a load that operates outside the regulator bandwidth, at speeds faster than the regulator transient response and settling time. The regulator will not keep up with the required current swings and will lose regulation causing voltage errors on the regulator output. A good regulator can also be compromised by non-optimal application. You also have to consider what is happening to the mains supply and how you can defeat any interference from this source.

So which is best, series or shunt? This is not as straight forward as it seems and it will depend how the load requirements are met in the regulator design and it’s application in the load circuit system.

For example my design decision for the shunt regulated supply I provided for you was based on your request to equal the performance of the Optima Red Top battery for the Altmann Attraction DAC in your system, so you did not have to have a battery in your lounge, or have to worry about the maintenance of satisfactory charge level.

There are several designs I could have used including series regulation with similar speed capabilities. The Red top has no mains noise contribution so it was quite important to keep this out of the way in any mains driven design. I like to keep things simple with my designs (less to go wrong) so I chose the current source driven shunt regulator because of its very high supply rejection capability. I would have had to use a pre-regulator, with any of the series circuits I have in my filing system, to achieve the same level of supply rejection. This would have increased cost and required more space on the circuit board.

The load conditions were also important. I would have no control of any supply organisation or high frequency bypassing with any items of equipment that the regulator would be powering so the chosen circuit would have to maintain regulation right through the operating frequency of the load. With digital circuits switching at seriously high speeds any regulator design I chose would have to keep up with these load conditions. Careful layout based on experience with high-speed wideband circuitry is the finishing touch to give a nice stable supply that is adaptable to other voltage and current requirements with equipment like your SB3. It works well with any digital load within its voltage and current operating range and makes a good transport power supply too.

Of course the overall performance of a power supply like this can be compromised by the application. For instance long connection leads between supply and load tend to affect regulation at the load, although the benefits of high supply rejection and wideband regulation are still obvious against lesser power supplies. Also Items like the Altmann have onboard regulators based on three terminal linear regulators and in the case of the SB3, three terminal linear regulators and switching regulators. These are between the master supply and the load circuit sub-section power rails seriously compromising the overall performance capability of the load circuitry. These need upgrading as well for the best performance. In fact the ideal solution here would be to completely separate the power supplies, for each section of importance to the sound quality, so there is no ground return current interaction between the various stages. I'm afraid the cost goes up the closer you go towards the ideal. I am working on a multi-section master power supply, all in one case, for this application which can be used with high performance local regulation upgrades inside audio equipment. I will post details on my website when the design is finished.

This may not be quite what you were expecting, Dennis, but I thought that some background to the design decision process might be of interest to you and others.

Regards
Paul

[firedog]

Hi-

Steve of Empirical Audio claims that when used with his "Pace Car" external reclocker (see threads in these forums), Power Supply upgrades do nothing for the Duet. His is a more expensive solution, but maybe a better one.

Danny

[woodsyi]

Hello Danny,

I have the Pace Car and Bolder modded SB2 with Wayne's PS.  Both will get you really, really good sound.  Bolder is cheaper when you consider that a good DAC is also needed to work with the Pace car.  There is more musical information (sound stage depth and instrument location) retrieved with the Pace Car than Bolder digital mod when you compare digital out only.  I think this is due to the limitations of S/PDIF interface.  I use I2S between the Pace Car and my DAC.  Power supply really doesn't matter on my SB3 as the 0's and 1's are re-clocked when they go out of the Pace car.  I have tested it with stock, industrial and Bolder UPS(II?).