[kbuzz3]

having used a few vintage pre amps with tone controls, i have to say im curious about what a modern pre with tone control would sound like. 

[mfsoa]

I'm a tone control hypocrite -

I don't want them on my equipment - Haven't had them for 20 years.

But, if I run a sat/sub I have no aversion to juicing the subwoofer to where I like it.
I'm biamping right now, and the bass amp may be a tad too sensitive bet I like to slightly elevated level I'm getting.

I guess that's the way I implement tone controls without really having any!

-Mike

[kyrill]

hmm

Why is WAF (factor) more important than HAF (factor)? ( husband factor)
Would treat them equally
I already ( in yr case)  lost my most favourite listening room 
I have showed i can offer a sacrifice, didn't I?

Now its her turn, no?

So i would change* the room,  I think HAF is very important too 
* within reason of course

[soundbitten1]

I have tone controls on my secondary system in the exercise room and I find myself always adjusting them . I play a lot of compilations where the audio varies from song to song therefore I spend way too much time judging the sonics instead of just groovin' to the music llike I do with my main system .

No thanks ... I don't like them .

[jbsl]

I understand why most people don't use tone controls but for me one of the reasons I buy Luxman is tone controls, not the only reason but one of them.

I have a Luxman L505f which does have tone controls.  Luxman lets you bypass the tone controls if you do not want to use them but for my system I prefer it with tone controls.

Luxman is one of the few companies that takes the time to engineer outstanding tone controls. 

When I bypass the tone controls and listen I just turn them back on. 

I rarely change the settings and when I do it is a bad recording, to bright, bass is lacking but that is only on about 5% of the music I listen to and I already know which ones need the slight adjustment.  This take only 2 seconds so it is not like I am messing with the tone controls for 5-10 minutes.



 

[TONEPUB]

It's been a quite a while since I last posted but I need the circle's exprtise.

I've had to give up my home office/listening room to the arrival of a new family member- I have now relocated to the library and since then my system sounds a little too bright and this is the one negative attribute I have always tried to avoid as I am particularly sensitive to it- the irony of it all!

Anyway, my speakers are placed in respective corners of the library with french glass doors between them and I suspect they are in large part the culprits for why the treble sounds a little edgy- unfortunately I cannot use any type of room treatment.

The room is 20ft long by 11ft wide and the speakers are placed on th far end of room some ft apart and the listening position about 7-8ft away.  The system itself consists of:

ZU Druids + Mini Method sub
Mastersound Compact 845 SET integrated; this replaced a Cayin 50t which I still own.
Musical Fidelity X-Ray v3 cd player + X-10 v3 tube buffer
Mitchell Hydraulic Reference tuntable with SME 3009 tonearm and Sumiko Bluepoint Special Evo III
Bellari Phono
Cables are all Paul Speltz anticables

Since I am reluctant to start swapping out components as the treble brightness occured both with the Cayin and the Mastersound, to some degree confirming that at least part of the problem lies with the room itself, I am considering adding a preamp (for which the Mastersound has an input).
In order to deal with the treble edginess,  I was looking for a full function preamp with tone controls (yes yes I know, heresy!) and here is where thigns got interesting- there almost no such preamps left in the market. 
I do want a remote control because of the distance between the system and the listening position and I discovered there are very few choices- most notably I looked at Mcintosh (C45, C46, C2200, and C220), Van Alstine, Rotel, and Arcam (though I have discarded the latter 2 as in numerous instances I have read that they tend a little to the bright side which is the very problem I am trying to overcome).

The point is that I was surprised- very surprised.  In the very understandable pursuit of sonic purity, ie reducing as much as possible any electronic components that may interfere with the signal, I fear high fidelity may have taken a wrong turn.
Room interaction is a fact of life and in most cases our systems have to perform in real world environments, not in dedicated hifi listening rooms that can be treated appropriately.
Not only, but as a fairly frequent concert goer (I say that but it's been over a year since I have visited Carnagie Hall or Lincoln Center) half the time the recordings themselves are far from neutral.
The more I pondered this issue as I agonize over what to do to solve my specific problem, the less it makes sense to me- yes, hi-end under ideal circumstances is just fabulous but ideal circumstances are not quite common enough to reasonably make me think that the industry has possibly gone too far in one direction. 
Furthermore, what sounds good in one room might not sound as good in a different one and a minimum amount flexibility even at the cost of a little sonic purity is probably a decent trade-off assuming one likes the overall sound reproduction of the underlying components.

In essence I am left with either going for digital room correction/equilization, which is indeed a viable possibility but quite a complicated one, or a handful (literally) of preamps equipped with tone controls just to pull back the treble a tad.

In any event, just thought this was an interesting issue and a good way to ask you all what you think I should do- any thoughts in general as a point of discussion or specifically on the preamps I mentioned above would be very very helpful.

PLG

 

What may be your problem is not so much too much treble, but a somewhat pushed back midrange.

Get your hands on a pair of ZU Libtec speaker cables.  When I had the Druids in for review, nothing
sounded right with those speakers but the ZU cable, it was fantastic!!  The mids all came right back
up to the front where they belonged and the high frequency balance was restored to its proper place.

I can't suggest these highly enough with your Druids!!

Good luck...

[TONEPUB]

If tone controls were a good idea more manufacturers would have them on their products .

Fashion. Trends. The high end audio world is full of it. Kind of like the Automotive world.

It's like saying "if 50 MPG were a good idea more manufactures would have vehicles that would achieve it". It's fashion.

Sorry to take this off topic pgastone, but this discussion brings up an interesting question. How do all you guys without tone controls deal with brightly mastered recordings? My music collection has a lot of them, and your's probably does too. Makes no difference if it CD or vinyl, all formats suffer from this phenomenon. How do you all deal with it?

The Manley Massive Passive will set you free.....

Expensive, amazing and worth every penny.

[kbuzz3]

After a year or so fooling around with two large ASC picture panels i finally mounted them on a "secondary" wall solely for WAF factor. This wall is in offset in front of one speaker about 12 feet.

Low and behold, it has "solved" my brightness high frequency issues 90 percent. After swapping a lot of gear and cables, i can state with full authority that the room first doctrine is the way to go.

I have always thought the panels would work much better either directly behind my listening position, or on a long untreated side wall, but this is not the case in my windowed apartment.  Go figure.

In addition to my comments above i would strongly suggest one explore panels of this type before adjusting equipment.  The acoustic forum has a bunch of active room acoustic makers like GIK or Real Traps.

I also recommend the above stated picture panels. I used some B&W shots from an up and coming nyc photographer and they came out much better then expected.