[launche]

BTW: For those who made the comments on nearfield, have you ever tried it -- especially with single drivers in a small room?

I'm with you sir, nearfield (on axis) is one of my favorite listening positions.  I always try it with any speaker I use.  Nearfield listening helps reduce room interaction, get that direct sound to the ear first etc...  I love the intimacy, detail and coherence, almost everything else can sound slow to me.  It's a great way to really get the tone, timbre and PRAT of the music.  I call this my "Locked and Loaded" listening position.  I was listening to some Keith Jarret earlier and the violin was so beautiful It damn near brought a tear to my eyes.

You do lose well done front to back layering, some ambiance, extended decays etc... but then again you've got to have one of the better rooms and systems to get this right from my experience.  You need space or the room has to be designed or treated very well.  Plus, the hemps have such a nice tone to them, all the better.  Sadly, I don't think a lot of listeners realise they'd be better off in a nearfield position, if the speakers allow.

[Alwayswantmore]

BTW: For those who made the comments on nearfield, have you ever tried it -- especially with single drivers in a small room?

I'm with you sir, nearfield (on axis) is one of my favorite listening positions.  I always try it with any speaker I use.  Nearfield listening helps reduce room interaction, get that direct sound to the ear first etc...  I love the intimacy, detail and coherence, almost everything else can sound slow to me.  It's a great way to really get the tone, timbre and PRAT of the music.  I call this my "Locked and Loaded" listening position.  I was listening to some Keith Jarret earlier and the violin was so beautiful It damn near brought a tear to my eyes.

You do lose well done front to back layering, some ambiance, extended decays etc... but then again you've got to have one of the better rooms and systems to get this right from my experience.  You need space or the room has to be designed or treated very well.  Plus, the hemps have such a nice tone to them, all the better.  Sadly, I don't think a lot of listeners realise they'd be better off in a nearfield position, if the speakers allow.

Well said, and very much in line with advice given by Bryan. Nearfield in a small room is done to maximize the direct sound getting to your ears and minimize reflections (that arrive too quickly in a small room). I like to think of it as headphones on steroids 

[Alwayswantmore]

Work In Progress : REV 1.0

Today everything was removed from the room to make way for the builder to repair the ceiling (...new construction is SoooooMuchFun!!!]. All that remains is an echo, echo, echo... [yes, absence of the GIK treatments is imeadiately evedent!]

Before deconstructing the room I took a few pictures and careful measurements. Even though the room sounds good, experience tells me that incremental improvements will still likely be gained through additional tweaks to speaker positioning, sub settings, etc. So your feedback is appreciated.

As you can tell from the pictures, the room is still a work in progress -- I haven't gotten around to painting or even moving the TV to a higher viewing position.

Physical measurements...

Acoustic Panels
- See earlier posts for info on treatments and postioning

Sub Woofer
- 13.5" from front wall
- 57" from left wall (on 13' wall)

Hemps
- Driver center is 34.5" from floor
- Driver centers are 6' apart
- Driver centers are 3' 9" from front wall
- Left speaker driver center is 3'  7" from left wall
- Right speaker driver center is 3' 5" from right wall

Listening position
- Approximately 7' from front wall (on 12' wall)
- Ears are approximately lined up with driver centers (when reclined)

Front of room



Hemps with granite base & granite topper (see earlier posts for info on granite treatments)



242 center panel on stand (just behind rear of speakers -- in front of plasma)

[bpape]

I'd probably try to pull the speakers a little closer together if you can.  The distance to the side walls is almost identical to the distance baffle to front wall - and almost exactly half the distance from ears to front wall.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

I'd probably try to pull the speakers a little closer together if you can.  The distance to the side walls is almost identical to the distance baffle to front wall - and almost exactly half the distance from ears to front wall.

Bryan

Thanks. I knew they were close to being equal distances, and thought this might be a concern. Kent

[Alwayswantmore]

Bryan, how much is meanigful? For example, is 5 feet apart enough to make them asymmetrical? Would moving them closer to the back wall likely bring any benefit? I know that nothing beats experimentation. But it is impossible to try everything, so I'm trying to key in on positioning that are known to be theoretically good.

One more: How much benefit might I see by adding a second ACI sub? I had hoped to get the Deep Hemp from Omega. But know I'm wondering if two ACIs might be better than a single Deep Hemp.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions for getting this room in shape. Kent

[bpape]

I'd likely try a combination.  Maybe 6-9" closer together and 4-6" closer to the front wall.  Don't want to kill the depth of the soundstage or cause other bass issues by getting them too close to the front wall.  We're just trying to avoid having the side and front wall proximity cause peaks and dips in the same place.  Better to have them be complementary.

As for the sub(s), that's a tough call.  ACI makes great subs that would integrate very well with a lot of different speakers.  I'd consider it even if only doing 1.  I've not heard the deep Hemp so I can't comment on it.  That said, 2 subs in that small room might be a problem.  When doing 2 subs, it can offer a lot of benefit IF you can put them exactly where they need to be to:

- integrate well with the mains
- produce proper frequency response
- work well together as opposed to fighting each other

I'm just not sure that you'll be able to pull off the 3rd bullet in that list given the restrictions on placement.  Stereo subs, however, can do a wonderful job if they work well together and you can get good response from them in those positions.  Usually, the best setup from a FR standpoint is centered on the front and back wall or centered on the 2 side walls.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Usually, the best setup from a FR standpoint is centered on the front and back wall or centered on the 2 side walls.

Side wall centering would be easy, that places them under the 242s used for 1st reflection (which will be in front of the Hemps  -- more or less parallel with my sitting position. I could even pull off centered front and back walls. I need an end table to go between two chairs when watching movies. The ACI Force XL would be about the right size for a low table.

[bpape]

Front and back might work better for you from an integration standpoint.  Many times, when doing the side wall thing, you have to knock down the xover a little to minimize localization problems.

The little Force is a very nice sub and killer for it's size.  The adjustments on the back also offer a ton of flexibility in tuning them to the room, the mains, and each other.  You can actually get a pseudo 1 band EQ out of it by playing with things.  It'll be a long, drawn out process to find exactly what works best but it's something that can be done over time.  When you get it right, they'll just disappear until they need to hit you in the chest.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Front and back might work better for you from an integration standpoint.  Many times, when doing the side wall thing, you have to knock down the xover a little to minimize localization problems.

The little Force is a very nice sub and killer for it's size.  The adjustments on the back also offer a ton of flexibility in tuning them to the room, the mains, and each other.  You can actually get a pseudo 1 band EQ out of it by playing with things.  It'll be a long, drawn out process to find exactly what works best but it's something that can be done over time.  When you get it right, they'll just disappear until they need to hit you in the chest.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan. Getting Alnico drivers for the Hemps is my top priority for now. Adding a second sub is looking one step further, possibly funded if I sell my K1000 headphones (which have not been needed since getting the room treatments  aa )

[Alwayswantmore]

The two Monster traps are propped up on cubes against the back wall. The fit and finish was not to the same level as the other products. The fronts tend to bow-out in the middle, and the panel depth is not consistent between the two units (the depth varies...

A fine example of excellent customer service!

Recently I finally got around to giving Glenn and Bryan details on the cosmetic issues referenced above. GIK's response was a model for great customer service. Once reported, GIK promply built a replacement set of Monster traps, and had them at my doorstep in short order.

Thanks to Glenn, Bryan and crew for looking out for your customers!

[bpape]

Glad all is well.  We had an issue with a batch of material.  Unfortunately, you got some of it.  We went back and checked it out after your report and found some other material that had varying density.  It's been pulled from stock so hopefully, this won't happen again.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

As for the sub, I'd likely start with it maybe 3/7ths of the room width along the front wall.  Maybe pull out 1' or so.  This is just a starting point.  I'd love to do it in the rear of the room but I don't want to introduce any discontinuity for 2 channel. No idea where you're crossing over either and if you have the fronts actively cut off or not.

Bryan

Bryan, the room is still torn apart due to recently completed ceiling repairs. This week I begin the process of putting it back together -- maybe even begin painting.

Regarding the sub, I had considered going to two subs, but not going to take that route now. Above, you mention trying the sub at the back of room. This interests me in that I need a coffee table between the chairs for movies anyway. Crossover point is not finalized, because I still need to get a friend over to play with the sub -- which is a two person job to test setting, especially phase. The mains have no filter.

I know my best bet is to 'play'. But if you have any other advice for a rear placed sub, I'd love to hear them (the sub would be behind the 2ch listening position).

FYI: On a complete whim, I sold some goodies including my coveted AKG k1000s, and sprung for Vinnie's new Isabella battery powered tube preamp / DAC / headphone amp. Should be here in a couple weeks. I also hope to upgrade to Alnico drivers, but funds are really, really tight for this sort of thing right now.

[Alwayswantmore]

It's been over 30 days now. I have a question and quick update...

The room is painted and looks great. I still need to build 1' risers for the GIK Tri-corners to fit the 9' ceiling, and art work has not been hung. When complete, I'll take pictures.

With the exception of the entrance (door), this room is buffered from the body of the house by adjacent / unused rooms (2nd BR, Power Room, Laundry Room, etc.). So the only significant sound leakage is the entry doorway, which is the width of a hallway (door, plus about 4" per side).

What can I do to reduce sound leaks through this area? Different door? An acoustical blanket of some sort that hangs in front of the door when listening? Weather stripping around the edge of the door? Other ideas???

Thanks, Kent

[bpape]

A solid core wood door will help quite a bit.  If you wan to go farther, you can put seals around the perimeter and a drop seal on the bottom to finish the job.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

A solid core wood door will help quite a bit.  If you wan to go farther, you can put seals around the perimeter and a drop seal on the bottom to finish the job.

Bryan

Thanks.

[Alwayswantmore]

I had hoped to be finished with the room weeks ago -- but honeydos have delayed the project. On the positive side, the room is now painted and ready for listening.

This post has shots of my DIY bases for GIK Tricorners (extending 8' worth of GIK to meet 9' ceiling). The bases are complete with the exception of grill covers. Photos show the approach I used...

1. Raw stand
2. Cloth sides in place (GIK standard black) & filled with Rockwool
3. Front of room -- the flash didn't do well in such a large space, but you get the idea







What's left?

1. Grills for the DIY bases
2. Artwork
3. Better job of cable management (Antiwire will likely be replaced by something less conspicuous)
4. More listening bliss  aa

Since I started this blog, I've made the following product changes

1. Purchased Red Wine Audio's new Isabella, battery operated linestage / nos DAC and headphone amp; it even incorporates vacuum tubes!
2. Sold my Wadia 830 CDP and replaced it with a Macbook via USB (this may sound odd, but Isabella's source of choice is USB via streaming bits)
3. Louis from Omega is building a pair of Super 6 Alnicos for me (Cherry fronts, with Wenge sides -- Wenge is the color of my current Hemps; So my Compact Hemps will probably be available for sale in the near future  )

The system and room are sounding very good, and this is prior to any real fine tuning of placement, etc.

I'll post photos and more thoughts on the sound when the room is 100% complete.

Thanks again to GIK, Bryan and everyone else who helped to educated me on the benefits of adding acoustic treatments. All I can say is don't spend big bucks on cables or other accessories / tweaks prior to looking into the sonic benefits AC may bring to your listening environment. For me, they are probably the best return on investment I've ever made for audio equipment.

[bpape]

Nicely done on the stands.  They should blend in pretty much seamlessly and be very effective additions.  Glad you're about 'done' (yeah right  ) and you can get down to some serious listening.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Pictures 1 of 3

GIK Tri-corner DIY base finished (sorry, did not take time to flip it)...

[Alwayswantmore]

Pictures 2 of 3

I love these, but they negatively impacted the image, so I had to take them out (I love them, though)...