[Alwayswantmore]

Over the past year, discovering the Acoustics Circle, I've become 'enlightened' as to the sonic improvements acoustical treatments can bring to listening rooms. Last week I ordered a set of GIK acoustic treatments for my small media room. Bryan was very helpful in terms of reviewing my needs and designing a system that met my budget (~$1,000), would tackle the biggest problems areas in the room, and was passable in terms of WAF (...or possibly better stated: I finally gained concurrence through capitulation  )

Setting up a new room -- primarily 2ch, but secondarily for TV / movies -- encompass many small decisions: Speaker placement, wiring, listening position, etc. In this tread I will blog my questions, options, approach and results.

So if you have a small room you want to tackle, or have input you wish to share with a newbie to room treatments, please feel free to mark this thread and follow (and contribute) to my journey.

Special thanks to Bryan, Ethan and others in this Circle who patiently provided guidance as I came up to speed on room treatments. The process may have been slow, but I can finally see a light at the end of tunnel.

[Alwayswantmore]

The room, before...

A dedicated media room (music / TV). The room is a spare bedroom.

Floorplan



Yesterday, began drywall touch up and hung bracket for 42" plasma



Details...

- 13' x 12' w/ 9' ceiling

- Enter from a hall facing long wall, with two windows on left wall

- Heavy plush carpet over 8lb rebond pad, over Advantec wood subfloor (basement below)

- Windows: 32” x 72”

- Center wall between Windows: 4’ 9” wide

[Alwayswantmore]

Equipment...

- Omega Compact Hemps (efficient single drivers)

- ACI Force XL powered sub

- Wadia 830 CDP / DAC (with recent factory upgraded 2nd power supply)

- RWA Signature 30.2 amp

- 42” G8 Pioneer Kuro Elite Plasma

- Panasonic BD-30 BluRay player (new addition)

- AV Audio – I will run BluRay and HD cable into Wadia’s DAC via digital connections, using the Wadia as a digital preamp (2 channel only)

- Anti cable speaker wire

- Oritek X-2 and Hudson 8-wire silver ICs (I only need one IC to make this system work)

[Brad]

So which GIK treatments are you adding and where are you putting them?

[Alwayswantmore]

So which GIK treatments are you adding and where are you putting them?

System will be on the long wall (the one you face when entering from the hallway). Treatments, all in standard black fabric...

(4) Tricorners (stacked on both front corners)
(2) Monster traps on wall behind listening position
(3) 242s, two for sidewall 1st reflection points, the third does not yet have a specified location (242s are sold in sets of three)

I plan to make 1 foot tricorner-style footers, allowing tricorners to extend to 9' ceiling. I will also be adding blackout drapes to windows (which can be opened or closed, assuming they make a difference in the sound). Basicall the speakers will probably be out paced far enough into the room that the front baffle will be closer than the edge of the window, so speakers will reflect off 242s (as opposed to the window).

BTW: I intend to use a near-field listening position. Bryan will probably pipe in later on to help with speaker, sub and listening chair positioning.

Link to thread where Bryan helped design the treatments... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54860.0

[Alwayswantmore]

Coming attractions...

Just got FedEx notification the panels just shipped 

Chad Billheimer is scheduled to be in the Charlotte area next week to calibrate my plasma http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/display_types-direct_view.htm

I've got to get the TV hung and equipment in place before Chad shows up for calibration 

[bpape]

Watch the drapes.  While we need to deal with light from a video perspective, we also need to maintain good left to right symmetry for general audio whether it be HT or 2 channel.

Bryan

[pbrstreetgang]

I am dealing with Bryan also and it has been fantastic- will be ordering as soon as Mr Bush send me my check!!

[Alwayswantmore]

Watch the drapes.  While we need to deal with light from a video perspective, we also need to maintain good left to right symmetry for general audio whether it be HT or 2 channel.

Bryan

Drapes or glass windows, either way the walls won't match. I take it from your comment that drapes are the greater evil.

[bpape]

Not necessarily.  Glass and drywall will both reflect pretty much the entire spectrum but bass will pass easier through the glass and that isn't going to change.  However, curtains on one sidewall will absorb a lot of upper mids and highs where the drywall won't.  If you want to keep it relatively the same, you could do a blackout shade with wood slat blinds in front of it.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Not necessarily.  Glass and drywall will both reflect pretty much the entire spectrum but bass will pass easier through the glass and that isn't going to change.  However, curtains on one sidewall will absorb a lot of upper mids and highs where the drywall won't.  If you want to keep it relatively the same, you could do a blackout shade with wood slat blinds in front of it.

Bryan

Thanks. What if I put false drapes on the opposite wall to maintain symmetry? Would that be too much absorption (i.e. four drapes of which two are real)?

[bpape]

That's definitely an option depending on the sizes we're talking about.  I wouldn't want to have 2 full height (to the floor), 6' wide curtains on the 2 side walls.  That's a TON of high frequency only absorption in the space.    The window up front doesn't seem like it will be as much of an issue to match on the other side.  There will be bass control in the corners anyway to help balance things.

The rear one will be behind the seating area so not as much of an impact but something I would like to avoid 'softening' too much if it can be avoided. 

Bryan

[Glenn K]

I am dealing with Bryan also and it has been fantastic- will be ordering as soon as Mr Bush send me my check!!

I will put a call into Bush and see what I can do to speed that check up for you. 

Glenn

[Alwayswantmore]

Listening impressions before treatment...

In the mid to late '70s -- during college -- I sold high-end audio (Audio Research, McIntosh, Crown / Magnapan / Magnaplaner / Lynn Sondek / Klipsch / Nakamichi / Revox / etc.), so I got the audio bug early. Over the years I've owned a number of systems. These systems were typically in the $10,000 range -- nice stuff, but far from the highend of the market.

Over the past couple years I've evolved to what I term minimalist audio. Low-power amp, single driver speakers, inexpensive solid-copper speaker wire, no active pre-amp, etc. And I have to say my system has never sounded better. In fact, in the right room and listening position, the system can be truly magical. Fantastic dynamics, uncanny resolution, excellent imaging, and a soundstage that drops back an easy 10' or more from the speaker baffle. In a word, the system sounds very 'real'.

Fast forward to my new listening room -- and the acoustics s*ck. Clap your hands and it takes a full two seconds for the ringing to stop. I've played around with several listening positions, but none yield even a fraction of what the equipment is capable of. My biggest complaints are:

- Muddy bass
- Image and depth of soundstage are greatly diminished
- Unnatural hardness in the mids and highs, easily exposed when listening to female vocals (my favorite genre)
- Loss of detail and resolution

So how much will traps help? Don't know yet, but 4 of 5 boxes arrived yesterday, and it looks like the 5th arrives today, so I'll soon find out...

Thanks for you input and interest. Kent

[Alwayswantmore]

It's late, so details and pictures will have to wait. First reaction: Wow!

[Alwayswantmore]

I enjoyed coffee with Diana Krall this morning. Well, at least when I closed my eyes it felt like she was in the room

More on sonics later in this post. First...

I did a quickie set-up last night, just to see what happens. Here's a brief overview (see pictures below)...

The tri-corners are very nice. Good fit and finish, and they look sharp in the corners. I'm planning on painting the front wall black, so the plasma, panels and wall should blend-in nicely.

I put the 242s on the horizontal, centered about ear height. Currently they are leaning on folding chairs. They too have a nice fit and finish.

The two Monster traps are propped up on cubes against the back wall. The fit and finish was not to the same level as the other products. The fronts tend to bow-out in the middle, and the panel depth is not consistent between the two units (the depth varies at least a 1/2" within a single unit), so these were the biggest disappointment in terms of cosmetics. Not only that, but at 7.5" deep, even if they were perfectly shaped, they are the least attractive part of the set up. But I want is to improve SQ -- and my wife didn't vomit -- so I'll compromise on aesthetics in trade for improved sonics.

Current set up

Driver position (from the center of the Hemp Cone):

-  ~6 foot separation

- ~ 39" from side walls

- ~ 45" from back wall

- ~ 4-4.5 feet from listening position (ie. near-field)

- The sub is just to the left of the left speaker, and out approximately the same distance from the back wall

Sorry the pictures are so dark, but they were taken in haste this morning...





Sound

Wow! Oh, I said that in my previous post. So how about this, these panels make a huge improvement -- in everything!

I can go right down the list...

- Greatly improved detail and resolution (music is less 'cluttered')
- Much improved image in terms of pin-point placement and instrument separation
- Image is wide, but not very deep (Bryan warned me that getting a deep image would be difficult in such a small room)
- Vocals and acoustic instruments are much more natural (the hardness mentioned in one of my earlier posts has pretty much disappeared)
- Acoustic bass is taunt, with an excellent center image and great 'feel' when fingers touch strings or strings are plucked aggressively

I spent the first couple hours playing with placement. But once I found a workable arrangement, it was tough to leave the room.

Biggest limitations...

So far I have not played with the sub in terms of placement or settings. I would also say that deep bass is the weakest area at this point.

While vocals provide a beautiful center image, and acoustic guitars, woodwinds and strings sound natural, the nearfield listening position can result pianos sounding tonally accurate, but the image is bigger than life (i.e. the left hand sounds natural, but the bass notes (when engineered to come from the left speaker) spread the piano over a 12-15 foot spance.

Whats next?

1.) I'd like to get Bryan's recommendations for speaker and sub placement to further improve the sound

2.) I'm not sure how to hang the 242s horizontally -- Stretching a wire between the two (horizontal) hooks on the back of the 242s does not leave much room to suspend the wire from a hook on the wall. Maybe use two wall hooks spaced about as wide as the two panel hooks???

[Rob Babcock]

Very nice.  The room is looking good and I like your photography.

[Alwayswantmore]

Very nice.  The room is looking good and I like your photography.

Thanks Rob. I have plans to paint the room, probably something very dark and dramatic. Even thinking of going to black trim. I've been doing a bunch of drywall work and painting on my new house, that's why its taken me so long to get to the listening room.

[bpape]

Glad it's sounding good for you.  Not sure what's up with the Monsters.  Please take a few pics if you can and email them to me. 

You're correct in how to hang them horizontally.  You really don't need a ton of slack.  You can try double hooks if you're more comfortable with that method though.

We're very tight on space to do everything you want in this room.  You're already very nearfield which is fine - just not sure how the hemps handle that being that far apart relatively. 

As for the sub, I'd likely start with it maybe 3/7ths of the room width along the front wall.  Maybe pull out 1' or so.  This is just a starting point.  I'd love to do it in the rear of the room but I don't want to introduce any discontinuity for 2 channel. No idea where you're crossing over either and if you have the fronts actively cut off or not.

Hang in there, we'll get it all sorted. 

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Got home from visiting a friend last night about 9:30 -- I listened to 1:00 AM. I'm very pleased with what the GIKs have done to improve the room. Like others have commented on this Circle, you really do get a big bang for the buck. The biggest change is there is so much less 'clutter' in the music, so each instrument has its own location in space.

Played some vocal choir [African cuts on Paul Simon's Graceland]-- the voices and soundstage were very real (assuming, of course, you have a front row seat  )

Not sure what's up with the Monsters.  Please take a few pics if you can and email them to me.

Will do. The boxes had been banged up a bit. Maybe some of the internals have shifted???

You're correct in how to hang them horizontally. You really don't need a ton of slack.  ou can try double hooks if you're more comfortable with that method though.

Thanks, I'll try running a tight wire and see what happens.

We're very tight on space to do everything you want in this room. You're already very nearfield which is fine - just not sure how the hemps handle that being that far apart relatively.

Actually I'm enjoying the intimate feel of being close to the performance, along with the wide soundstage. much of my collection is vocals and small instrumental (trios / quartets, etc.), where nearfield works extremely well. Even large performances spread out in front of me, it just feels like I'm row 1-3 center seat -- if you have to make compromises in a small room, this is one I can handle  aa

As a side note, single driver hemps dispersion characteristics to a degree resemble bi-poles like magnepans. I think it's because there are no phase issues. In general you want to be slightly off axis from the drivers.

My comment on piano depends on the recording. I spent part of last night with Patricia Barber[Nightclub]. Her piano was miked tighter to one channel, so the perspective was very natural.

As far as nearfield, the perspective is definitely close to the musicians. Mono (vocals) drop back maybe 5 - 6 feet from the drivers, and are very rich and articulate. Other instruments claim their unique position in space...sometimes feeling like they extend beyond the side boundary of the speakers. I like the feeling of space -- its hard to describe, but there is a certain 'ease' to the way things sound. Also the added detail allows for enjoyable listening without requiring a high volume to hear subtle nuances.

Tried AC/DC Back in Black. The perspective was great (if you enjoy rock, this is one of the best engineered recordings I've heard).

As for the sub, I'd likely start with it maybe 3/7ths of the room width along the front wall.  Maybe pull out 1' or so.  This is just a starting point.  I'd love to do it in the rear of the room but I don't want to introduce any discontinuity for 2 channel. No idea where you're crossing over either and if you have the fronts actively cut off or not.

Fronts not actively cut off. I will try the position you recommend. Also when I have some spare time, I'll pull ACIs set up CD and recalibrate the sub.

Hang in there, we'll get it all sorted.

Q: My current rack is too tall to place in front of the TV. What's your recommendation if I invest in a new rack? I was thinking about a low / wide 2-shelf maple rack (in black, of course) that could be placed on the front wall below the TV. My other choice would be to keep the components in the front right corner, but move the amp onto a separate stand between the speakers.

The rear is wll out for several reasons (that's where seating goes for watching TV).

Bryan, thanks again for the help and suggestions! Kent