Isabella first impressions - micro Rave at my place.

SET Man · « **Reply #40 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 03:45 am »

Hey!

First thanks Mariusz for the Mini-Rave.

And of course Vinnie for coming all the way to Brooklyn.

I got there and guess who what sitting in the sweet spot blasting away? Well, the one on only Chris/lonewolfny42

When I first got there I saw the speaker were directly contact the wooden floor and I could feel the bass going to the floor and worst was that there seem to be a server suck out in mid bass. So, I talked to Vinnie about it that we need to put something under the speaker. Vinnie saw the Finale footers, grab them and used 3 of the top for one speaker and the 3 for the bottom. Well, this work pretty well and the sound got better.

As Mariusz told me the system is not really set up properly. Well, that would explain why there were no feet under those Vandies. And the room seem to have echo, a pretty live room. But after some work I think the room should sound better.

Well, the RWA amp and the new Pre/Dac were driving those Vandies with the Consonance Drolet CDP as a source cooking up the CDs. The sound was good. I've heard Vandy before at shows and dealer back than and those driver blend well even though they are 3 ways.

Of course it was interesting to see the comparison between the two batts-operated tube pre. Not many pre of this type are out there.The DODD and the RWA Isabella. To make things even between the two pres the same set of Mullard tubes were use with both pres. I have to say I prefer the Muallard over the JJ that came with the Isabella and I think also the DODD also supply JJ as stock tube also.

Which I like better? I have to say the RWA Isabella. Why? As heard in that system. OK I wasn't in the sweet spot but between the two I feel the RWA sound better and well balanced from top to bottom overall to me. The DODD sound good but what bother me the most was the upper mid to high of which seems to call attention to itself too much. Aggressive and too forward sounding maybe? I just can't get pass that with the DODD.

But maybe the DODD would be good for system with a more laid back overall. And if you put the RAW in a system that is already on the warm too laid back this could be too much of a good thing?

Anyway, from what I've heard in that system I would go with the Isabella.

Oh! Another interesting thing. The RWA Pre have built-in DAC of which use non-oversampling and I do prefer that over the sound of the Consonance Droplet CDP of which use 24/192K DAC. OK, maybe I'm a bit bias here since I do have a NOS DAC in my own system. There is a good smoother and better sense of flow to it with the 16 bit CD through the NOS DAC.

I do feel that the 16bit CD with NOS DAC sound better to me reminded me of my turntable better than the higher bit DAC. And to my surprise Vinnie is also an analog guy! Spinning LPs at home. Believe it or not there are two other New York Audio Rave members with turntable that also use NOS DAC! Coincidence? Maybe?

Sadly I had to leave before Mariusz hook up his Consonance tube amps. Well, looking at my screen name here I'm sure you know that I like tube amp.

Anyway, congratulation on the new pre Vinnie. I'm a tube kindna guy and it didn't disappointed me at all. I have no idea that you would do a batt-operated pre like this. Very good first impression from me for sure. And I'm looking forward to hear it again in different system to see if my second impression will still be the same as my first.

The down side? Well, this is something I can not afford... definitely out of my price range.

And thanks Mariusz for the Mini-Rave. Those food are great by the way.

Looking forward to see you guys again soon.

Take care,
Buddy

JDUBS · « **Reply #41 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 03:55 am »

Nice, Buddy! Did you snap any pics of the event?

-Jim

SET Man · « **Reply #42 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 04:06 am »

Quote from: JDUBS on 30 Jul 2008, 03:55 am

Nice, Buddy! Did you snap any pics of the event?

-Jim

Hey!

Actually I didn't bring my cam with me. Well, I'm not really the official photographer of the NYAR you know.

Mariusz just bought his new DSLR so I didn't see the need for me to bring my cam. Anyway he took some shots with his cam. I'm sure he will post some soon.

Take care,
Buddy

pbrstreetgang · « **Reply #43 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 04:20 am »

Buddy you use single driver speakers right? I would be interested to hear the impressions of any multiway users also between the Dodd and RWA pre.

IME single driver users are more allergic to multi way speakers and particularly high end reproduction than Multi way users are to single drivers and their unique presentation.

SET Man · « **Reply #44 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 04:28 am »

Quote from: pbrstreetgang on 30 Jul 2008, 04:20 am

Buddy you use single driver speakers right? I would be interested to hear the impressions of any multiway users also between the Dodd and RWA pre.

IME single driver users are more allergic to multi way speakers and particularly high end reproduction than Multi way users are to single drivers and their unique presentation.

Hey!

Yes, I have Single Driver speaker.

But here is the catch.... I have helper/supertweeters on them. So, my Single Driver speaker ain't rolled off like most other SD speaker system with just main driver alone

I don't think anyone who have heard my system after I added the supertweeters ever complaint that my system is rolled off.

Take care,
Buddy

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #45 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 05:13 am »

Hi Buddy,

Thanks for your posting your get together impressions!

First, let me thank Mariusz for inviting us all to his home for an afternoon and evening of
fun listening, great food and drink, and did I say fun?

Mariusz and his friend Rich like to joke around with each other, and it didn't take long for
me to get involved!

It was a real pleasure meeting you both and I hope to
see you guys again soon (next NYAR?).

Mix in a little bit of Lonewolf, a little SET Man (Buddy), and my friend and loyal RWA
employee Anthony (loyal until he steals trade secrets and starts "White Wine Audio"

), and
things were cooking - literally, as Mariusz's air conditioning was not quite there today. I think
this was on purpose to simulate being at a live show that does not have air conditioning or something.

Mariusz made sure to take lots of pictures and I'm sure will post them in a day or two. There is one
shot of Lonewolf using me as a speaker to lean up against (yes, I'm only 5 foot 6 inches) with his
beer in the other hand - too funny

I'm sure Mariusz is going to post some bad shots of
me as well (you know, with my mouth open while talking or biting into some food or something... he did take a lot of pics!)

It was fun to connect both the analog outputs and the digital output of the Droplet CD player to the Isabella.
SET Man listened while I switched between the Isabellina dac and the Droplet CD player (I did this at least 5 or 10
times without telling him which one was selected) and he was able to pick out each one every time without
mistake.

Quote

I do feel that the 16bit CD with NOS DAC sound better to me reminded me of my turntable better than the higher bit DAC. And to my surprise Vinnie is also an analog guy! Spinning LPs at home. Believe it or not there are two other New York Audio Rave members with turntable that also use NOS DAC! Coincidence? Maybe?

Yes, and I used a lot of LPs that I also have on CD when voicing the Isabellina dac. This isn't the best photo, but here it is:

Scheu Analog Premier mkII turntable with Scheu 12Vdc motor running on 12V SLA battery
Scheu Analog Classic tone arm
Dynavector 20XL cartridge
Sutherland PHD battery phonostage

I do NOT think it is a coincidence that NOS dacs are preferred by vinyl lovers. Ryohei Kusunoki saw (heard) it years ago and has some informative papers on this and why 16-bit, NOS sound more natural, more effortless, more like analog. And SET Man was able to pick this out every time (and he is a vinyl guy)

It is not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad, or whatever... it is just a matter of taste (and SET Man has good taste!

)

Its past 1am, so time for me to crash for the evening and back to work early in the morning.

Thanks again, Mariusz, and thanks for everyone who came and thanks for making it fun and sharing your music (not literally, of course).

Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #46 on:** 30 Jul 2008, 06:15 pm »

Vinnie--
So, when are you going to do an Isabella Road Show out here on the West Coast?

After all, Northern California is known as the Red Wine Capitol of the U.S. aa

--George

Mariusz · « **Reply #47 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 01:01 am »

Hi everyone

First of all - big thanks to Vinnie and his apprentice Antony for their kindness and effort to make this mini Rave/Isabella/30.2/new RWA cables introduction , one of the kind experience.
It would not be possible if it was not for Vinnie's generosity - period.

I will follow up with the whole story and pictures later tonight..........Please , be a little bit more pation.

Mariusz

SET Man · « **Reply #48 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 01:45 am »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 30 Jul 2008, 05:13 am

Hi Buddy,
...

It is not a matter of right or wrong, good or bad, or whatever... it is just a matter of taste (and SET Man has good taste! )

Hey!

Thanks Vinnie

I'm not sure about that.

We all hear differently. What sound good to me could sound bad to you. So, everyone should keep that in mind.

And to be a bit clear on my part. My comments were based on what I've heard on that particular system. Whether or not overall I prefer that particular system to my own system of which is nothing special is another story

But! Vinnie your Pre did well yesterday in that system. And I'm definitely looking forward to hear it again in a different system. I always like to hear things that made a good impression on me again to see if is will still be as good as the first I've I've heard it. And more importantly I always open for a second listen with those that did not made good first impression also.

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 30 Jul 2008, 05:13 am

...
Scheu Analog Premier mkII turntable with Scheu 12Vdc motor running on 12V SLA battery
Scheu Analog Classic tone arm
Dynavector 20XL cartridge
Sutherland PHD battery phonostage
....
Vinnie

That is a nice TT set up you've got there. And you even run your motor on battery!

But! What are you doing with that Sutherland? I think you should build yourself a battery operated tube phonostage aa

Anyway, maybe I will see you and your Isabella pre again at the upcoming Rave. Would to good to hear it again in different system and see.

Take care,
Buddy

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #49 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 04:02 am »

Hi Buddy,

Quote

That is a nice TT set up you've got there. And you even run your motor on battery! But! What are you doing with that Sutherland? I think you should build yourself a battery operated tube phonostage

This is definitely something we are interested in offering, but just need to time to get going... hopefully sooner than later

Hi George,

When I have some free time to travel, I would love to head to the wine capital!

Hi Mariusz,

Please do not feel rushed.. just hurry up!

Thanks again,

Vinnie

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #50 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 04:45 am »

SET Man....

Quote

I got there and guess who what sitting in the sweet spot blasting away?

Blasting away Buddy....

.....the system was "playing softly"....

Thank you Mariusz for hosting the Red Wine "Micro" Rave....it was fun...and very enjoyable. You have a nice place there in Brooklyn....when its finished, it will look super !!!

Thanks also for the Polish delights....very tasty !!!

And thank you Vinnie (and Anthony) for making the trip down from CT. ....hope it wasn't too bad going back...traffic wise.

Vinnie came well prepared....Sig.30.2 amp....Fully decked out Isabella preamp (remote) with DAC on board and headphone outlet....Red Wine IC's and SC's.....and an Apple MacBook laptop full of tunes.

Since I own a Sig. 30, I was interested in hearing his 30.2 amp....it did not disappoint. Speakers were Mariusz's Vandersteen Quatro's....and after raising them off the floor (as mentioned in Buddy's post), the bass improved nicely....good total sound.

As for the Isabella....that's a nice preamp....well built (I looked inside and out)...well thought out design...tubes....good total package.

Vinnie has come a long way from the early mod days....the Isabella is top shelf.

....and he's still the same "young" nice guy.

As a complete system....30.2/Isabella with the Apple laptop sounded very good.
I can see many using this as their main system....and really enjoying every note...

The ability to mix and match different tubes in the Isabella...makes it very versatile. Switching in the Mullard tubes in place of the stock JJ's, took the Isabella up another notch. Tube rolling and the results is always fun....

Later that evening, Mariusz installed his Consonance Cyber 800 mono blocks with the Isabella preamp....more power (78 watts)....sounded really good together. I do enjoy ...more power...

I'm looking forward to the August Rave.....and another listen to the Red Wine system. Yes....Vinnie has come a long way...Nice !!!

Thanks..........

Chris

Mariusz · « **Reply #51 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 04:53 am »

Hi Vinnie,
here are some pictures from the mini Rave

Mariusz · « **Reply #52 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 05:08 am »

And some more

Rest.....tomorrow

Cheers

Mariusz · « **Reply #53 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 05:38 pm »

My system was not 100% ready, neither was the room and acoustic treatments.
I want to apologize for lock of AC.......(my installer failed me).

Vinnie, Anthony, Chris, Buddy and Richy - thank you for coming and I hope that it wasn't to bad of an experience. Vinnie......you are first class gentlemen, good sport and very talented designer.
Your new Isabella preamp is excellent. Isabellina DAC is even better. We did not have a chance to try the headphone stage but based on the preamp section and DAC performance I have no doubts that it is on par with the best out there.
One word to describe Isabella would have to be........smooth. Very nice sound stage, easy to listen to and deeply resolving information on the recordings. DAC is the bomb.....it improve the Droplet's performance and took it to the next level....WOW !!!
30.2 amp was also very, very good.........no question about the magic and synergy between the RWA components.
My Quatros are not very difficult to drive but they can use extra power....no doubt. Sig 30.2 handle them nicely......especially with the gain option on Isabella preamp.
My own modded Consonance Cyber 800 mono-blocks (IMO) are a better match for Vandersteen Quatro but Sig 30.2 wasn't to far behind. With more efficient speakers (horns, some open baffle and single driver speakers come to mind) I believe this combo would be extremely hard to beat.
Last but not least , new line of speaker cables and interconnects from RWA stable.
I like them a lot, they sound great and are very flexible............nice.

(I will post more when I get to our little getaway in Catskill NY later tonight and tomorrow)

Here is the fuzzy pic. that I had handy of the system used in the RAVE.

Thank you all again and talk to you soon

(Next time , Isabella vs Dodd)

Mariusz

ltr317 · « **Reply #54 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 05:45 pm »

Too bad I couldn't get back from Mass. in time to attend. Looks like a nice setup. Wanted to hear the Red Wine based system. Looks like Chris and Buddy had a very good time. Nice photos Mariusz.

Paul

Mariusz · « **Reply #55 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 06:03 pm »

Quote

Wanted to hear the Red Wine based system.

To bad you couldn't make it. You HAVE to hear Isabella - seriously.

Maybe next RAVE???

One more thing......I totally admire and appreciate what Isabella did for my rig. However I can not help but wonder what she would sounds like in the system that is more on the warm side already.

I will try to get into more details next time around.
Also my comparison between the DODD and Isabella will be as honest and unbiased as morally possible.

I like them both and you can not go wrong with either one......matter of taste I guess.
Replacing JJ with Mullards took Isabella yet to another level......nice tube that works with both preamps.
I only wished that Isabella was just a liiitttllllle bit more within the reach of the most audiophiles - it would sell like hot cakes.

Mariusz

BobM · « **Reply #56 on:** 31 Jul 2008, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 31 Jul 2008, 04:02 am

Hi Buddy,

Quote
That is a nice TT set up you've got there. And you even run your motor on battery! But! What are you doing with that Sutherland? I think you should build yourself a battery operated tube phonostage

This is definitely something we are interested in offering, but just need to time to get going... hopefully sooner than later

Vinnie

Vinny, you may want to speak with Mark Kelly (mark@quidditytech.com). I built one of his turntable speed controllers this winter. It's definitely not a beginners kit, and it needs to be tailored to the type of motor used by a TT, but it is also battery powered. A very nice design that also allows adjustment of the individual phases of the AC line, which none of the other controllers allow.

Enjoy,
Bob

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #57 on:** 1 Aug 2008, 06:56 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

As for the Isabella....that's a nice preamp....well built (I looked inside and out)...well thought out design...tubes....good total package.
Vinnie has come a long way from the early mod days....the Isabella is top shelf. ....and he's still the same "young" nice guy.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for making it to the micro-rave and thanks for posting your feedback!

Hi Mariusz,

I just knew there were going to be silly pictures of me posted... I just knew it!

I do love the pic of Chris leaning on me like a speaker and with his beer... I need to get that printed and autographed by Chris. Chris is an audiocircle celebrity and always comes prepared with good music! Of course I'll ask for your autograph as well since you are in the pic

Quote

My system was not 100% ready, neither was the room and acoustic treatments.
I want to apologize for lock of AC.......(my installer failed me).

Vinnie, Anthony, Chris, Buddy and Richy - thank you for coming and I hope that it wasn't to bad of an experience. Vinnie......you are first class gentlemen, good sport and very talented designer.

Mariusz... considering your system was not 100% ready, we still made it "disappear" in your room playing some good music and it was a lot of fun. No worries about the missing air-conditioning - these things happen and you had plenty of cold drinks to make up for it.

Thanks for the kind words and it was my pleasure driving down to visit you all. It felt good to get out of the shop and socialize for a change

Quote

Replacing JJ with Mullards took Isabella yet to another level......nice tube that works with both preamps.

I found the Mullards to be warmer and a little less detailed than the JJs, but also a tad bit more spacious. Tube rolling is fun and while I wanted the tubes in the Isabella to be protected inside of the unit, I also wanted it to be simple to change them via that sliding glass window on the top.

Regarding the Dodd v. Isabella.. I am obviously heavily biased (into Class A - "A" for Audio component manufacturer), but I will say this, and I think those who listened to the two can agree - even though they use the same tube and using battery power, they sounded very noticeably different. We are using a totally different tube stage design, different parts, different signal paths, etc. As an analogy (while not the best analogy), you can put the same engine in two different kinds of cars (e.g. a Corvette and an SUV)... but these vehicles are going to perform very differently. You need to drive both to see which one is for you, just like you need to listen to both preamps to determine which one sounds best to you.

Quote

Too bad I couldn't get back from Mass. in time to attend. Looks like a nice setup. Wanted to hear the Red Wine based system. Looks like Chris and Buddy had a very good time. Nice photos Mariusz.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I'll be at the August NYAR at Jim's in Stanford, CT (Aug 23) and will bring some RWA gear. Hope you can make it!

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info!

Best regards,

Vinnie

Loftprojection · « **Reply #58 on:** 1 Aug 2008, 07:47 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 1 Aug 2008, 06:56 pm

I just knew there were going to be silly pictures of me posted... I just knew it! I do love the pic of Chris leaning on me like a speaker and with his beer

I think the first one where Vinnie is holding an open Isabella and smiling is quite something, it falls between the silly and the marketing category! It's almost like he is holding a baby sideways without it's diaper!

No offense Vinnie, just a bit of Friday afternoon fun! haha

jrebman · « **Reply #59 on:** 2 Aug 2008, 08:02 pm »

Vinnie,

Congrats -- sounds like you have a couple more real winners here. It is a long road from modding to manufacturing, but you have really pulled it off with both top-notch gear and customer service. Definitely a guy who has followed his bliss.

Buddy and Mariusz, what else can you say about the DAC? Isabella is pretty much out of range for me,

but Isabellina is in range.

Can you talk a little more about dynamics bottom end control and top end extension? I'm sure the PRAT and smoothness of presentation is there but some NOS DACs have left me wanting in the three areas I asked about -- on the other hand, most of the up-samplers (with the exception of the Audio Aero Capitole) have caused some pretty sever listening fatigue in fairly short order.

I guess I just want it all

.

I should say that so far, both of your comments are very encouraging.

Thanks,

Jim