[Kevin Haskins]

The other guy was upset because I didn't bring a subwoofer.   I don't know exactly why that upset him but for some reason he was irked at me for not having output to 20Hz.     

Speaking of which, do you have enclosure design(s) to go with the 18" driver? 



Highjack intended.  aa aa aa

I have a design in mind, we designed the driver around my enclosure goals.   If you are talking about a CAD drawing showing all the dimensions, cut sheet etc....     Not yet...    I'm still working on pictures and web stuff.    The other documentation will follow.

Back on topic though....   

[low.pfile]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

Is a vendor's circle really a "store"? 

So if one purchases a piece of equipment, and it not meet their sound preference or did not meet their (reasonable) performance expectations , should one post outside of the Vendors circle or within it? I would have first thought within it.

More Questions: vendor's circle should only contain posts that cover the following:
- I want more information on Widget X
- I just bought Widget X
- I like widget X
- Widget X is behaving oddly, what could be wrong?
- Widget X works well with Dunkle Y.

Reviews of the limitations, perceived performance and personal opinions should go where?

just wondering now that zybar brought it up?

I would consider PM or e-mail as customer service channel first.  I would try to be in good terms with the seller until I have had my repair or refund.  Wouldn't you?  In fact, I would generally try to stay civil with everyone for everything.

Yes I agree, direct communication with any vendor (with an AC circle or not) should be the first step to resolve an issue or acquire information. (I do that myself). But I was trying to give a few specific examples of subject matter that could end up on a thread to be a bit more granular in the discussion at hand.

That other forum that ends in GON has a specific review section where it seems appropriate to provide both the positives and negatives of a piece of equipment. But the Vendor circles here on AC really are a different animal. It is more about questions about their products and philosophies to the company owner/rep/designer/etc. More of a help center than an archive about that brand (though it can contain valuable information).

So based on the current of the recent responses it seems that: if a pair of SP Tech speakers were loaned to me by a friend to audition in my system, the SP Tech Circle shouldn't be the location to post my thoughts (whether positive or negative).  It is unreasonable to think that any one product can meet every need/preference so some negatives are likely to be stated.
e
Regarding Zybar's comments on Franks system, I really didn't see any negative comments on a specific components, but rather the overall system which contained a component connected to that specific vendor. I see no harm in that. He merely proclaimed his preference. If anyone went further with rants about their preference and other components they preferred more in comparison, I think that would be in appropriate in a Vendor's Circle.

Ok. Back to work.

ed

[Marbles]

I was just posting my thoughts on a vendor's product in "their" Circle and because it wasn't a glowing endorsement, I am being told by people who frequent that Circle that it was in poor taste to voice my opinion (which wasn't harsh or overly negative - I simply stated that I felt somebody's system didn't sound as good in its current incarnation when compared to past setups).

Personally, I feel that if you can only say good things about a vendor's products in their Circle, it minimizes the usefulness of reading the posts in that Circle.  If everything is glowing and positive, how is that balanced and informative?   

I am curious as to what the other members of AC think on this topic.

Thanks,

George

I think this must have been the thread:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54681.msg496597#msg496597

Looks like another reason to be hesitant about buying SP Tech speakers.

If you can't say what George did without the moderator of that circle and his cronies coming down on you, then it is NOTHING more than a one sided marketing jerkfest.  If you want the good, and the bad to be known, then you won't find it there....

Best of luck to all you SP Tech buyers and potential buyers...caveat emptor.

[Bigfish]

Subjective opinions have different meaning to different individuals.    For many people, they consider gathering subjective opinions, whether in a forum or from a review magazine, as a legitimate step in evaluating equipment.   To those people, a subjective opinion by a "reputable" person can mean the difference between a sale, and not a sale for a given product.   

When you give an opinion, like it or not, you are influencing the pocketbook of the vendor. 

I believe Kevin has "hit the nail on the head" with the above listed comments.  

Ken

[Marbles]

self edited

[woodsyi]

In light of the above post, I haven't heard the SP Tech speakers, but it is my opinion they are the best speaker on this planet or any other    Please buy the speakers based on this one opinion...please please please...

Are you trying to be a "reputable" person?   

BTW, do you think I can post the recipe for my TURKEY on the culinary circle?  aa aa aa

[woodsyi]

In light of the above post, I haven't heard the SP Tech speakers, but it is my opinion they are the best speaker on this planet or any other    Please buy the speakers based on this one opinion...please please please...

Are you trying to be a "reputable" person?   

BTW, do you think I can post the recipe for my TURKEY on the culinary circle?  aa aa aa

[Marbles]

In light of the above post, I haven't heard the SP Tech speakers, but it is my opinion they are the best speaker on this planet or any other    Please buy the speakers based on this one opinion...please please please...

Are you trying to be a "reputable" person?   

BTW, do you think I can post my TURKEY on the culinary circle?  aa aa aa

I earned that reputation the hard way 

Speaking of which, the culinary circle is in the Sports Bar circle, so I don't see why not...I know I'd love to see it again 

[Marbles]

BTW, nice post Rim...you knew (soft) porn or at least nice nudity would get me distracted and off topic 

[TheChairGuy]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

Bingo, for me, Father Theresawoodsyi 

I'm not raggin' on you, either, George/zybar....I think a poll and post on the subject is good service to all to flesh out this delicate subject.

Town Square is probably a better place for it than Audio Central...particularly as one of those metering out advice on the SP Tech circle (on this very subject) is none other than the Facilitator of Audio Central 

John

[Imperial]

Why does this thread exist?  Besides it's posted in the circle of the one you disagree with Zybar.
...

I agree with Satfrat on most accounts that no poll is needed here...
It's a great topic however!  We should indeed talk about it!


Imperial

[zybar]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

Bingo, for me, Father Theresawoodsyi 

I'm not raggin' on you, either, George/zybar....I think a poll and post on the subject is good service to all to flesh out this delicate subject.

Town Square is probably a better place for it than Audio Central...particularly as one of those metering out advice on the SP Tech circle (on this very subject) is none other than the Facilitator of Audio Central 

John

Sorry about putting this in the wrong Circle.

If the mod/facilitator can move this to the Town Square, I am certainly fine with that.

George

[*Scotty*]

I don't expect to find the "truth" in a vendors forum or on the web for that matter. The relative merit of a design will only be found after there are enough examples of it out there that it can be compared to similar products intended to perform the same function. Reliability and delivery problems should be directly addressed to the manufacturer. I would save positive or negative comments for the
Critics Circle,theoretically ones comments about a product in that circle shouldn't raise too many eyebrows.
Scotty

[Imperial]

A vendors circle is like a pool of knowledge about a product...
The fish that swim there are fed from above, or by what floats, but rarely sinks..

"Oh look at that fish there, it's belly up man!" What did you ever feed him?" ... This should not
be posted in a vendors circle unless (put in your own ending here people...)
And that IS my take on this!

On the other fin , informing of when it is feeding time is OK, and how the food tastes is also OK.
Saying: I saw guppy eat and he spat it out... so I ate it! Uhm... today I also tried some of his food
but today it tasted Icky!!! That's cutting it close... aa

I think... as a baseline that one should allow for pride of ownership for the customers of a vendor...
To take away or attack this pride of ownership, that is to question the growth of the fish by
the quality of the food fed...is not wise, it is however okay to question the fish feed, but then one should also
maybe offer an alternative.
That's all! 

Imperial

[Marbles]

Imperial, hitting the  or hitting the tonight are you???

[konut]

Here are the sentences that are being discussed.
quote author=zybar link=topic=54681.msg496597#msg496597 date=1213110459]
 Sorry to be the dissenting opinion here, but I recently heard Frank's system and I don't think it was better than the previous incarnations.  In fact, I thought it took major steps backward.

Now, before everybody starts flaming me...

Too much gear has changed from system to system at Frank's so I can't confidently say it is one piece of gear or the other.  I just know that to my ears it isn't better.

George  
[/quote]

The problem is that you did not bother to list the other changes that were made to the system, allowing members to form their own conclusion about what may have caused a degradation in quality. If you had done that, it would have precluded that you were IMPLYING the SP Tech product was the offending componet. It also would have been useful to know this combination to allow readers a caution about the lack of synergy. If you had offered more context, the perception would not have been quite so "pot shot"

[Imperial]

Imperial, hitting the  or hitting the tonight are you???

No... just "pond-ering" on the matter...

I read back several threads trying to see why and how and so on and it seems to be sort of complex this.
I found that one really could not take sides here... or answer the poll one any way or the other...
It isn't really town square material... this thread as it uhm started on the wrong foot a bit I think.

It IS a great subject. That it took this ... type of event for someone to shed light on it is something
that I found... bizarre, but still, many well spoken words have come here! Many good things has come out of this.

But... I think number one is to not act to quickly when one is a bit ... mad or angry, to sit back for a while,
swim around in the pond, join in the feeding and grow a little... just that ... allow for some growth...
If there really is bigger fish out there... they didn't get that big by leaving a pond full of good food...

  We all should have bigger hearts, that would beat to the beat of the music and not to the knocking on wood...

Here is my brother and his dog in a "pondering" situation yesterday.

The dog is called King. My brothers name... is Frank...
King was thinking: Oh that water looks murky, I don't know if I wanna get skinny dippin' right now...
Frank said: Come here! - That was all it took, the 8 month old dog jumped into the water ...
Why did the dog jump into the water? He knows His master always takes care of him... Frankly... so should
all posters do with the waters that make up the pond they are in...  (I.E circle..)

Imperial

[zybar]

Here are the sentences that are being discussed.
quote author=zybar link=topic=54681.msg496597#msg496597 date=1213110459]
 Sorry to be the dissenting opinion here, but I recently heard Frank's system and I don't think it was better than the previous incarnations.  In fact, I thought it took major steps backward.

Now, before everybody starts flaming me...

Too much gear has changed from system to system at Frank's so I can't confidently say it is one piece of gear or the other.  I just know that to my ears it isn't better.

George 

The problem is that you did not bother to list the other changes that were made to the system, allowing members to form their own conclusion about what may have caused a degradation in quality. If you had done that, it would have precluded that you were IMPLYING the SP Tech product was the offending componet. It also would have been useful to know this combination to allow readers a caution about the lack of synergy. If you had offered more context, the perception would not have been quite so "pot shot"
[/quote]

So how about that as a reply and not simply circling the wagons and attacking me?   aa

George

[konut]

Better late than never! 

[zybar]

Better late than never! 

 

George