[zybar]

I was just posting my thoughts on a vendor's product in "their" Circle and because it wasn't a glowing endorsement, I am being told by people who frequent that Circle that it was in poor taste to voice my opinion (which wasn't harsh or overly negative - I simply stated that I felt somebody's system didn't sound as good in its current incarnation when compared to past setups).

Personally, I feel that if you can only say good things about a vendor's products in their Circle, it minimizes the usefulness of reading the posts in that Circle.  If everything is glowing and positive, how is that balanced and informative?   

I am curious as to what the other members of AC think on this topic.

Thanks,

George

[Kevin Haskins]

I think you should have the freedom to post opinions.   Like anything, use good taste and be respectful.    That is all I would ask of anyone posting in my forum.   

[saisunil]

As long it is:
- not done in spite or
- not done in a way that would hurt their business
- done with care and consideration

so that it becomes constructive

What may sound musical for someone's tastes may sound dull for someone else or
What may sound lifelike for one is too bright for another.

We audiophiles have a responsibility to preserve this hobby so that it is appealing and enjoyable for us and for those who have yet to step into these difficult waters.

Cheers

[mcullinan]

This is OT but I noticed your post is number 6666. Sign of the devil Plus 1 lol!

Everyone has a different opinion. As long as it not slander or malicious.
Go ahead. Opinions are not rocks, or baseball bats. They are personal preference.
Mike.
BUT dont rub your privvys on the Bowling trophy, pleeease!
 

[Wayner]

George,

I think I know the post you are talking about and the circle. What you said was your opinion and I had no problem with it. I myself have been in other owners circles and have been a little negative there as well. Let's just say I was egged off the stage. I guess I voted to rip anyone you want, but do it in another circle. The owner does deserve some respect as he is a sponsor and is paying a fee. NBC or FOX radio would certainly sensor you if you went on their air and started blasting their corporate policy or opinions.

Oh, I'm not the one that complained, either.

Wayner 

[konut]

You could post anything. Weather you SHOULD is another thing. To me, a bit of discression is advised. Posting negative comments, however innocuous, in the vendors own circle shows bad form. It influences my perception of the poster and the weight I give to their comments. If the negative perception of a component is so compelling as to warrant an alert to the forum's populace, a post to Audio Central would be in order as to the specific component involved and the specific comparison made. This would avoid any bad blood, as well as avoiding any perception of a thread hijack. Its all about respect. If one wishes to command respect, one must show respect.

[Wind Chaser]

What do opinions have to do with the "truth"? 

[miklorsmith]

I think saisunil and konut have it right.  I suppose the central question is who is the site here to serve?  If the site serves primarily the vendors criticism might seem to be harmful.  A distant view might show this to be incorrect though, as negative feedback should be more than "I don't like".  It should be specific to application, listening preferences, synergy, etc.  For that matter, so should positive comments.  Preventing a sale today could actually help in the future if a buy-gone-wrong made the buyer upset and later splattered crapola all over the internet after a piece didn't work out.

If the site's central mission is for the users, negative feedback is extremely valuable.  Otherwise, how are we to choose between the 74 current "best ever" products?  Aren't we always complaining about the dearth of negative reviews "out there"?  There are many reasons why a particular product might not work in a specific application.  Disallowing this information and focusing just on fanboy stuff would be a tremendous disservice to the users of the site.

[satfrat]

I feel Circle content should be left up to the Circle moderator/facilitator and not to the general membership. Therefore i feel this thread is out of line and can be interpreted as stepping on the toes of Bob of SP TECH, who has said time and time again that all comments, positive or negative are allowed on his Circle so long as it's done respectfully. There is absolutely no need for this poll George.  

JMO.


Cheers,
Robin

[zybar]

Satfrat,

My reason for starting this has nothing to do with Bob...it wasn't Bob commenting on my post.

I still feel that my post wasn't out of line by simply stating that somebody's system didn't sound as good to my ears as it has in the past.  The only reason I brought it up, was because a different member specifically referenced that system - I wouldn't have said anything otherwise. 

I have said many positive things about the sound of SP Tech's speakers and I have no axe to grind with Bob/SP Tech.

George

[satfrat]

Here is the thread that I posted in:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54681.10

You can decide if I crossed a line.

George

You didn't cross it then but you are now,,,, and in spades! 

[woodsyi]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

[Kevin Haskins]

Subjective opinions have different meaning to different individuals.    For many people, they consider gathering subjective opinions, whether in a forum or from a review magazine, as a legitimate step in evaluating equipment.   To those people, a subjective opinion by a "reputable" person can mean the difference between a sale, and not a sale for a given product.   

When you give an opinion, like it or not, you are influencing the pocketbook of the vendor. 

I'd suggest the following rule:   If you would say it to their face, in a room at a show or at a place of business, then it is 'ok' to say it in their circle.   It is wise to use tact, and to use the standard disclaimers that it is based upon your OPINION and give the context of your experience.   A guy who owns the product should be given more weight than one who doesn't.

Of course I had some guy come up to me at VSAC and ask me why I lied on my web site and another tell me I'm not ready for "Prime Time".       I guess audiophiles are social misfits in general and don't know how to interact appropriately no matter the setting.   

[satfrat]

   I guess audiophiles are social misfits in general and don't know how to interact appropriately no matter the setting.   

So are children,,, 

[sts9fan]

Are comparison questions cool?  I have always thought it a nono to ask something like: "compare Salk XXX to Wilson XXX" in the Salk circle.  If you can criticize I would say asking for a comparison should be ok too.

[Kevin Haskins]

   I guess audiophiles are social misfits in general and don't know how to interact appropriately no matter the setting.   

So are children,,, 

I said that including myself.   

The guy who accused me of the lie was talking about the Cardas web site.  I guess he was a professional on exotic woods and he took issue with George over their magic wood blocks.

The other guy was upset because I didn't bring a subwoofer.   I don't know exactly why that upset him but for some reason he was irked at me for not having output to 20Hz.     

[mcullinan]

Tru, I remember a story of one of those misfits performing some kind of ass hump. He barely new anyone and thought itd be funny. Its still up in the air. Man I would not want to be that person!
Mike

[woodsyi]

The other guy was upset because I didn't bring a subwoofer.   I don't know exactly why that upset him but for some reason he was irked at me for not having output to 20Hz.     

Speaking of which, do you have enclosure design(s) to go with the 18" driver? 



Highjack intended.  aa aa aa

[low.pfile]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

Is a vendor's circle really a "store"? 

So if one purchases a piece of equipment, and it not meet their sound preference or did not meet their (reasonable) performance expectations , should one post outside of the Vendors circle or within it? I would have first thought within it.

More Questions: vendor's circle should only contain posts that cover the following:
- I want more information on Widget X
- I just bought Widget X
- I like widget X
- Widget X is behaving oddly, what could be wrong?
- Widget X works well with Dunkle Y.

Reviews of the limitations, perceived performance and personal opinions should go where?

just wondering now that zybar brought it up?

[woodsyi]

IMHO,  Vendor's circle is a store and I don't' tell other potential customers in the store what's not good while I am in the store.  Any frank discussion (should it be negative) should be off to the side and out of the earshot of others in the store if the opinion was asked.  Otherwise, I would just walk out of the store.  It's not like there aren't  neutral corners where a product can be discussed ad nauseam here.     BTW, I don't think shilling is good form either in the neutral corners, but that's just me.

Is a vendor's circle really a "store"? 

So if one purchases a piece of equipment, and it not meet their sound preference or did not meet their (reasonable) performance expectations , should one post outside of the Vendors circle or within it? I would have first thought within it.

More Questions: vendor's circle should only contain posts that cover the following:
- I want more information on Widget X
- I just bought Widget X
- I like widget X
- Widget X is behaving oddly, what could be wrong?
- Widget X works well with Dunkle Y.

Reviews of the limitations, perceived performance and personal opinions should go where?

just wondering now that zybar brought it up?

I would consider PM or e-mail as customer service channel first.  I would try to be in good terms with the seller until I have had my repair or refund.  Wouldn't you?  In fact, I would generally try to stay civil with everyone for everything.