[ltr317]

I have a friend who has an Adcom preamp/amp combo and Thiel CS2 speakers.  The system is detailed but too bright sounding.  Any recommendations for a warmer sounding speaker?  Budget is $1,500 or less.  Doesn't matter if it's bookshelf, monitor or floor standing system.  No single drivers though.  Thanks.

[Kevin Haskins]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

[Sonny]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Sure it is Kevin...IMHO

Anyways, if the Thiel's are bright, don't know what you're gonna get that won't be...  I never heard the Thiel's describe as bright!

My fave is always the discountinued Meadowlark shearwaters...

[Kevin Haskins]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Sure it is Kevin...IMHO

Anyways, if the Thiel's are bright, don't know what you're gonna get that won't be...  I never heard the Thiel's describe as bright!

My fave is always the discountinued Meadowlark shearwaters...

Glad you think so.   I always thought it was kind of tacky.   

[JLM]

I heard these at the recent AKFest:

http://gini.com/index.php?id=speakers

And here's a full review:

http://stereomojo.com/Gini%20LS3_5a%20Review/GiniLS35aReview.htm

Small, 3-way floorstanding, typical LS3/5a warm/rolled off highs with good bass extension for small/medium sized room, $1190/pair.  I owned better LS3/5a types of speakers, but these were I favorite affordable speaker that I auditioned at the show.

These were one of only a few speakers that I truly liked at the show.  Note everyone had the same smallish hotel rooms, no treatments in this particular room.  Except for these, a $3700 pair of open baffles, and a $6000 pair of floorstanders, none of the speakers that could do deep bass did it without an 80 Hz room induced boom.

[Imperial]

Adcom and that thiel ... sounding bright.. wow!
I reacted to this as well, that should not be! Uhm, I think?
Some reflective surface in the room maybe?

Firstly I would remove ALL AC cords from their outlets and polish them with some kind of say... Caig Deoxit?
Then I would also polish ALL interconnects currently in use (polish the connector pins...) and have the speaker cables re terminated with fresh spades or bananas...
Then I would put some hi freq absorbter in the cealing at the first reflection point.
-
Is this CS2 old like 20 years old now or what?
Capacitors in the filter could have given up the ghost maybe... could make it bright maybe..


Imperial

[ltr317]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Sure it is Kevin...IMHO

Anyways, if the Thiel's are bright, don't know what you're gonna get that won't be...  I never heard the Thiel's describe as bright!

My fave is always the discountinued Meadowlark shearwaters...

The Thiels has a piercing treble when played with the Adcom equipment.  His room is sufficiently damped, so that shouldn't be a problem.  Prior to the Thiels, he had Boston Acoustics and they were not bright sounding, nor as detailed. 

[ltr317]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Thanks Kevin.  I read the review and it sounds like a fine speaker.  Unfortunately, my friend is not a Diyer, nor will any prodding convince him otherwise.  Also, it would help if the speaker is available in the NYC greater area for audition. 

[ltr317]

Adcom and that thiel ... sounding bright.. wow!
I reacted to this as well, that should not be! Uhm, I think?
Some reflective surface in the room maybe?

Firstly I would remove ALL AC cords from their outlets and polish them with some kind of say... Caig Deoxit?
Then I would also polish ALL interconnects currently in use (polish the connector pins...) and have the speaker cables re terminated with fresh spades or bananas...
Then I would put some hi freq absorbter in the cealing at the first reflection point.
-
Is this CS2 old like 20 years old now or what?
Capacitors in the filter could have given up the ghost maybe... could make it bright maybe..


Imperial

As far as I know, they are fairly new.  See my other post to Sonny.  He previously had Boston Acoustics in the same room with the Adcom equipment and they were not bright.

[Imperial]

Thiel CS2, fairly new... uhm, Correct me here guys, didn't thiel make those in the 80's?
Am I mixing them up or something here?
I'm throwing in the towel here, I can't twist my brain around this.
Everything tells me that this should NOT sound bright, it shouldn't 

Oh my brain hurts... 

Are these Cs 2.4's maybe? they can be somewhat close to bright...

How about this:
Try to put a sheet of toilet paper in front of the tweeter, if that tames the brightness, the speakers are indeed bright! (it will filter down the hi freq's some) try with and without.. ehm...
Try that!

Play....ehm..  Aguilera "Can't Hold Us Down" from the album "Stripped" should be a good test this.
Listen for sibilance and the floating shimmering going back and forth between the speakers.
This song is "neutral to warm, with no added bass power, and a very neutral treble, but if the speaker is bright... ouch!!!" you'll know!

The brightness could also be a toe-in issue... angle the speakers more outwards maybe?

Imperial

[Kevin Haskins]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Thanks Kevin.  I read the review and it sounds like a fine speaker.  Unfortunately, my friend is not a Diyer, nor will any prodding convince him otherwise.  Also, it would help if the speaker is available in the NYC greater area for audition. 

We are building them now so there is no need for DIY if you don't have the tools, or desire.

In terms of audition, I'd take them back if they didn't pass muster.   He would only be out the shipping with isn't too bad with this size loudspeaker. 

[ltr317]

Thiel CS2, fairly new... uhm, Correct me here guys, didn't thiel make those in the 80's?
Am I mixing them up or something here?
I'm throwing in the towel here, I can't twist my brain around this.
Everything tells me that this should NOT sound bright, it shouldn't 

Oh my brain hurts... 

Are these Cs 2.4's maybe? they can be somewhat close to bright...

How about this:
Try to put a sheet of toilet paper in front of the tweeter, if that tames the brightness, the speakers are indeed bright! (it will filter down the hi freq's some) try with and without.. ehm...
Try that!

Play....ehm..  Aguilera "Can't Hold Us Down" from the album "Stripped" should be a good test this.
Listen for sibilance and the floating shimmering going back and forth between the speakers.
This song is "neutral to warm, with no added bass power, and a very neutral treble, but if the speaker is bright... ouch!!!" you'll know!

The brightness could also be a toe-in issue... angle the speakers more outwards maybe?

Imperial

Sorry, I don't know the exact model number, but they are not the first or second generation CS2s.  He's had them new, for maybe four or five years.  I heard the CS2s around 1989 and 1990 at two different dealers when I was looking to buy a pair of speakers.  I read good reviews about them, but I heard brightness both times with solid state amps.  Vocals were generally more sibilant than on other speakers and just didn't sound natural.  I decided against buying them and bought Heybrook HB150s instead after auditioning about 40 or 50 pairs of speakers.  In my friend's room, the Thiels sounded as I remembered them back then. 

[ltr317]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Thanks Kevin.  I read the review and it sounds like a fine speaker.  Unfortunately, my friend is not a Diyer, nor will any prodding convince him otherwise.  Also, it would help if the speaker is available in the NYC greater area for audition. 

We are building them now so there is no need for DIY if you don't have the tools, or desire.

In terms of audition, I'd take them back if they didn't pass muster.   He would only be out the shipping with isn't too bad with this size loudspeaker. 

Kevin, what's the price for a built pair?  I'll ask my friend to see if he's interested. 

[Kevin Haskins]

Basically $1000/pr and shipping isn't too bad because these are fairly compact speakers.    It does take me a couple weeks to get them out so it isn't an instant gratification item at this point.

[maxwalrath]

Meadowlark Kestral I's

[Imperial]

Kepler. I like the name! Back at high school I did a math project about satelite orbits and Kepler's elliptical math was indeed part of this!
The speed in an elliptical orbit is never constant.
A speaker diaphragm does not move pistonic, it moves in an extreme elliptical manner...when reproducing several different frequencies at the same time... or music as we call it.

I believe the Tannoy Churchill speaker with that V vent used elliptical math to develop that V shaped port back some years now.
Elliptical pressure front alignment and such. The V - shape made a more uniform deep frequency wavefront filling the room better.
Giving a perceived better deep frequency response. It was most likely calculated with elliptical behaviour of the pressures in mind./ot...



Imperial

[goldlizsts]

Ahemm...... mine.    Is it ok to recommend your own product?   

Sure it is Kevin...IMHO

Anyways, if the Thiel's are bright, don't know what you're gonna get that won't be...  I never heard the Thiel's describe as bright!

My fave is always the discountinued Meadowlark shearwaters...

2 years ago I was at the Denver show, where Thiel was showcasing its latest crowning achievement, the 3.7 (was it?).  It was to be sold as the flagship I think, like around $10K.  Or, was it that at the time there was no price tag yet (it was so new?!).  I listened to the speaker.  My impression was that perhaps it was still not the "final" product, the sound was, at least the upper frequencies, a little on the "steely" side.  Call it bright or what.  My personal perception was that it lacked warmth.  While it may be good for certain types of music, I felt it may not be for my taste.  Another well-known speaker person was at the show, and he concurred with my observation also.  The problem with such test runs was that it could have been due to the amp, or the CD player, etc.  It's by no means the final verdict.  There are possibly too many factors impacting the sound.

Again, this was MY perception, by no means any expert opinion.

Addendum:  I should also add, I heard Thiels the first time a little earlier than the 3.7's introduction, at Sound by Singer in NYC.  I auditioned the then in-production Thiels, again forgot the model # (2.7?), side by side with several Focals (at the time Focal was introducing their Beryllium-based boxes).  The Thiels came across as being lacking something in warmth.  So, hearing Thiel "2" times, and the speakers all came across similarly, I should have theorized that it wasn't the associated equipment that was giving the sound, it WAS the personality of the Thiels.

For $1,500, I would seriously consider the Salk, forgot what model, but I think it's for $1,500, or thereabout, 3-way transmission line design.

[Kevin Haskins]

Kepler. I like the name! Back at high school I did a math project about satelite orbits and keplers elliptical math was indeed part of this!
The speed in an elliptical orbit is never constant.
A speaker diaphragm does not move pistonic, it moves in an extreme elliptical manner...when reproducing several different frequencies at the same time... or music as we call it.

Imperial

That is a unintended correlation but astute.  He had this thing with fundamental shapes (the perfect solid shapes) and the movement of the planetary motions having an intrinsic "musical" attribute to them.   

I'm a little of a history buff and Kepler was instrumental in the development of modern thinking and the development of the scientific method.    If you ever get a chance to do some reading he was certainly an interesting historical figure.   

The web page with some of my propaganda.

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24_143&products_id=683

[opnly bafld]

For $1,500, I would seriously consider the Salk, forgot what model, but I think it's for $1,500, or thereabout, 3-way transmission line design.

http://www.salksound.com/songtower.shtml

Lin

[lonewolfny42]

Paul...

These might fit the bill....from Audiogon...

GMA Europra Max

GMA Callisto

And....as mentioned....the Salk Songtower's are a nice speaker.