[David Ellis]

Yesterday I received the Technics 1200 that I purchased on ebay.  It has a Shure 44 (I think ??) cartridge.  This morning I decided to give the turntable a spin.  I built the speakers (obviously), and the amp used is an older Technics SA-8.  The other components aren't top notch, but they are solid and perform nicely.

I have a stack of dusty records that I previously tried with an older el-cheapo Onkyo turntable, but the turntable only had 1 channel working, and that channel wasn't very good.  So, the records gathered dust for few more years - until this morning's spin.

The first spin was an older Stevie Wonder album that I listened to many times in my youth on my parent's console radio/phonograph.  The results were profoundly disappointing  .  It sounded like someone installed a plethora of 1940 vintage paper/oil capacitors in my system.  It was muddy - very muddy!  The sound from the X-Box (the other digital source sounded better.  I have the same recording on digital and analog sources.  The recording was Boogie on Reggae Woman.  It's a decent funky tune that is above average recording quality but nothing special.  Anyhow, I listened to this repeatedly, but there was NO magic.  It sounded bad, bad, bad.  Frankly, I was thinking.... those analog guys are "smoking crack" .

I decided to spin another record, but was not optimistic.  The record was a 50 cent purchase from the local Salvation Army Thrift store.  It was a recording by Dallas Holm on Greenspace Label.  By all accounts, this record should be very mediocre.  Dallas Holm is a Contemporary Christian musician that did his better work in the late 1970s to late 1980s.  While he did win a few Dove awards, I haven't heard anything from this era of Contemporary Christian Music that I would consider listenable.  I have gone though 30-40 CDs with great music, but poor recording quality.  I have 3-4 dusty Dallas Holm CDs.  In a decent setup, my interest in these mediocre quality CDs has faded. Sure, the music is great, but the recording quality is generally poor.  Very few recordings are actually decent.  I have about 5 contemporary Christian CDs that I consider listenable.  Unfortunately, the recording quality of the vast propensity of Contemporary Christian music has been very disappointing - until now.

Oh my!!    Aside from the snap, crackle & pop, Dallas Holm and the entire piece of music sounded SIGNIFICANTLY better than I have ever experienced on CD.  The vocal depth and harmonics were WONDERFUL.  The bass and treble were perfectly balanced.  Even the electric guitar sounded good.  Given this piece of music, records are da' bomb!  I now completely understand why folks are willing to spend real money on a records and a turntable setup.  As I read through commentary, It appears there are a plethora of good music on old vinyl that sounds really good.  Woot!!

I do need to eliminate the snap, crackle & pop, but am VERY happy about this new discovery.  Good older music on great vinyl recordings is a major boon.  I wish to convey a sincere thanks to those who contribute to this forum.  I have read many pages of your posts and they certainly contributed to my desire to experiment with vinyl.

Hmmm, I now need to re-read those posts about cleaning records.

Dave

[giantsteps]

 I suggest you do some research on steam cleaning your vinyl.


 Frank

[TheChairGuy]

Hey David....great to hear you get on the real hi-rez train ticket to sonic bliss 

Seriously, a record cleaning machine and a step-up in cartridge choice and you'll never want to evaluate your speakers for anything more than deep bass again (the only significant area where vinyl falters is in bass extension). 

As there are few instruments capable of significant response below 40hz - your not missing all that much.  And what is gained is all you've pointed out - vocal depth and harmonics are WONDERFUL.  The bass and treble are well balanced and electric guitars sound good 

Seriously, I'm at a point now of not accepting anyone's notion that they are an audiophile if they don't either have a decent vinyl set-up or listen primarily to DVD or DVD-A discs.  A music enthusiast they might be...but not an audiophile if you listen only to CD's.  CD is simply okay and no amount of money will improve the barely acceptable recording process.  Wasting too much money on the playback side is fruitless/pointless.

Just wait until you have clean records and a cartridge upgrade (and possibly upgrading your isolation base for the Technics as it is inherently poor at this).....CD will be nearly irrelevant as it is to many/most of us here at the Vinyl Circle.

John

[2bigears]

  that 1200 will work good for you.spin that big black disc,the only way to transport tunes.....

[2gumby2]

You may want to consider a good quality phono preamp as well. When I connected my turntable to my Bel Canto PRe2/P preamp for the first time, the improvement was HUGE compared to my previous preamp. I never realized how good a turntable could sound.

[Wayner]

I just received Andreas Vollenweider's Down to the Moon LP in the mail today. It is in mint condition and I got it on Ebay for $.99 plus shipping. Zowie, what magic can wait in the grooves, if it only can get extracted properly. A table, like a finely tuned speaker, will be an incredible gateway to new music, once the table is setup properly. Go get some new records. Then you will have a good idea of what the system is capable of.

Wayner

[Wayner]

David,

I would also like to recommend a new cartridge. The Audio Technica AT440MLa is a stellar piece, well balanced MM output,, tracks nicely at 1.5 grams and has a microline stylus to track deep in the grooves.

As far as cleaning records, I use a sink full of watery liquid dishwashing suds and a horse-hair paint brush. Dip the whole record in there and paint the surfaces of the record (label and all) with the wet brush. Rinse them off really good. Use 2 cotton towels (one to put the record on) and dry off both sides. Let the LP dry out so the label doesn't get moldy (they wont fall off). I usually clean my albums once when I get them (new or used) and then always use a Dishwasher brush slightly misted with a 25% alcohol/75% distilled water spray. The records will end up nice and slippery. I've been doing this for 40 years and still have many of my teenage records in near mint shape.

Happy spinnin'

Wayner

[David Ellis]

Wayner,

I don't have a nifty record cleaning brush yet, but this morning I managed to get sudsy with the Dallas Holm record.  I used a $15 nylon/polyester Latex paint brush from Sherwin Williams.  I know profoundly little about paint brushes.  Do you think the flavor of paint brush is significant?

There is a significant decrease in the snap,crackle & pop after the cleaning  , but perhaps the brush could be slightly better. 

I will also visit the local record shop tomorrow evening. They may have some of those Discwasher brushes.

I read about 10 pages of the 102 post record cleaning discussion string last night.  It seems there are MANY ways to clean a record.  Eventually I may purchase KAB vacuum thingy, but the soap & water method seems to work very well for now.

I will post more commentary as my experience develops and respond to the above posts.

Thanks again for your help gents!!!

Dave

[Arlequen]

I would also like to recommend a new cartridge. The Audio Technica AT440MLa is a stellar piece, well balanced MM output,, tracks nicely at 1.5 grams and has a microline stylus to track deep in the grooves.

Good suggestion Wayner .. I own an SL1210 with a Grado Prestige Gold listened via its Grado PH-1 Phono Stage .. and this USA combo sounds really magic

[Wayner]

Dave,

I think the horse-hair brush is a little gentler, but what ever works. I just picked up another album and washed it (Steve Perry, Street Talk).

Discwasher still makes the D4, but I like the black D3 better. Also find a little misty spray bottle to mist the brush. Your records will become slippery and quiet.

Welcome to the vinyl group! Of course, John The ChairGuy is our (fearless) leader and I think we all have our own ideas about a good many things. I don't think we fight too much, but  we don't agree on alot either. I guess that's why it's so damn fun!

Time to spin!

Wayner

[Wayner]

Arlequen,

Do you get any hum from the Grado when it's near the direct drives magnets?

Wayner

[giantsteps]

 Steam cleaning vinyl
 
 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1192142257&read
 http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=24516
 http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=68266
 http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59579&highlight=steam+cleaning+records


 Frank

[Arlequen]

Do you get any hum from the Grado when it's near the direct drives magnets?

Hi Wayner

Yes .. I had hum and so I had to put SL1210 ground cable on the preamplifier and not on the Grado Phono board even if it has the ground pin
Since when I did that I didn't get anymore hum also at preamp max volume level
Never had hum problem also when I used the phono board inside the preamplifier

[Wayner]

I built this Faraday shield for my SL-1200 (2 pieces of .09" thk EPDM on either side of some 16ga. galvanized steel. It made my then defective AT440MLa fairly quiet. When I got the AT replaced, I kept the home made mat, as I liked the sound of it and the added weight seems to be a plus.



Wayner

[Arlequen]

Wayner

I'm using the Boston Audio Mat (3mm. tall) and it works fabulously on SL1200
You just should buy a 3mm. plexiglass or glass disk to put under the mat to elevate till the original 6mm. rubber mat

http://www.boston-audio.com/mat1.html

[Wayner]

I'm up to the original mat thickness.

Wayner

[richidoo]

Frank, thanks for the steam clean info. Been wonderin bout that after reading mapleshade catalog with steam gadget.
Rich

[giantsteps]

Frank, thanks for the steam clean info. Been wonderin bout that after reading mapleshade catalog with steam gadget.
Rich

 Not sure how deep you got into the research but the "insiders" are doing it on the cheap with a cleaner sold at Walmart. 30 bucks. Sometimes on sale for 20. I'm getting one tomorrow. Also getting a thingy that protects the labels while you steam clean.


 Frank

[Wayner]

The purpose of the steel disc in the mat is to repel magnetic fields, much like speakers that are magnetically shielded. This helps keep the magnetic field away from the cartridge coils.

Wayner

[Wayner]

Here is my high buck record cleaning tools. They are all you need to keep those LP's clean as new.
The hockey puck is my record clamp/weight/damper.



The small brush comes with the Audio Technica cartridge for cleaning the stylus (very gently).

W