[smerlas]

I am trying to understand the physics (audio principles ) behind an observation / condition I have found to exist in my system.  I recently experimented with shotgun style - vs- biwiring of my B&W 804s driven with the 4BSST.  I found that biwiring the speakers with a set of cables, created with no more than monster speaker wire, dramatically increased overall speaker performance and clarity.  In particular the bass was "punchy" you could discern the percussion of the kick drum.

Based on a review in the absolute sound I decided to experiment further and made a set of biwire cables utilizing 10ga 4 conductor copper cable.  The bass response seamed to increase over the monster cable bi-wires.  However since connecting these cables I could not help but feel the clarity of the bass had diminished.  So feeling that the cables need to "burn in" I have left them in the system.  They have been in place for approximately one month.

Last night I disconnected them and reconnected the monster cable homemade bi-wires.  All the clarity is back.  Bass is punchy but not as prevalent.  I tested the cables resistance with a Fluke multimeter and got readings for both cables of approximately 0.1 ohms, this is not what I was expecting.  I thought I would see a larger difference between the two cables, which would provide some insight to what was actually happening.

I was experimenting with homemade biwiring before purchasing.  I have been contemplating the 9ga Bryston speaker wire and was going to biwire but am concerned the muddy bass issue may reappear.

Any logical / technical insight on this would be appreciated.  I am aware of all the philosophical BS regarding cables and am not trying to go there .............. need audio / physics insight as to how the amp and cabling are interacting.

My main objective here is to get as much of the clarity / accuracy the Bryston & B & W equipment can produce, and is known for.

[James Tanner]

Hi,

When you say 'Shotgun style' do you mean 4 conductors in a single sheath?
If so are they weaved? Are they color coded?


james

[smerlas]

James,

The conductors are in a single jacket and are color coded.  The cable was 10ga 4/c SJ00W 600v. The monster cable was basic 16ga speaker cable (SP16).

By shotgun I meant larger single speaker wires with jumpers at the terminals of the B&W's as opposed to biwiring.  Both sets of biwire cables are 8 feet in length and have 4 conductors per speaker.

[James Tanner]

James,

The conductors are in a single jacket and are color coded.  The cable was 10ga 4/c SJ00W 600v. The monster cable was basic 16ga speaker cable (SP16).

By shotgun I meant larger single speaker wires with jumpers at the terminals of the B&W's as opposed to biwiring.  Both sets of biwire cables are 8 feet in length and have 4 conductors per speaker.

OK so we are comparing a set of Bi-wire cables with a set of larger ga. Single cables using jumpers between the woofer and mid?

james

[smerlas]

That was the original comparison.  Which proved the Bowers like to be biwired. 

The issue at hand now is a smaller gauge bi-wire  (16ga) being clearer that a larger gauge bi-wire (10ga).  The smaller gauge being intended for use as "speaker wire" and the larger wire being typically utilized for 120/240 volt current.

I would have expected the larger cable to pass the signal with greater ease and clarity than generic 16ga speaker wire especially based on the review of the (for lack of a better term "extension cord") cables.  This type of cable has supposedly been used by orchestral recording folks, so it appeared a natural fit.

To further complicate matters the other school of thought (or original school of thought) was whether to get one set of Bryston speaker wires or two.  I was leaning toward two because of the improvements originally experienced with bi-wiring.


The thought process being, that if the Bryston speaker wires are utilized by the same recording studios utilizing the amps, then they should be sonically accurate as well.

[James Tanner]

That was the original comparison.  Which proved the Bowers like to be biwired. 

The issue at hand now is a smaller gauge bi-wire  (16ga) being clearer that a larger gauge bi-wire (10ga).  The smaller gauge being intended for use as "speaker wire" and the larger wire being typically utilized for 120/240 volt current.

I would have expected the larger cable to pass the signal with greater ease and clarity than generic 16ga speaker wire especially based on the review of the (for lack of a better term "extension cord") cables.  This type of cable has supposedly been used by orchestral recording folks, so it appeared a natural fit.

To further complicate matters the other school of thought (or original school of thought) was whether to get one set of Bryston speaker wires or two.  I was leaning toward two because of the improvements originally experienced with bi-wiring.

Sorry James for the lengthy response, my answer appears like I can not offer a simple response to a simple question.

Hi smerlas,

Well this cable thing is a can of worms to be sure.  My findings has been that cables do sound different but usually their 'electrical constants' will correlate with the way they behave (sound) in a system.

I would say believe your ears and go with what works best in your specific system.

james

[smerlas]

James,

I have a feeling that my Fluke multimeter is not providing enough sensitivity to truely represent what the resistance in each cable is. 

So without creating a project worthy of a Doctoral Thesis .............. I am inclined to purchase some Bryston "Speaker Cable" and have at yet another experiment.

Bowers does indicate in their literature that the 800 series speakers have a maximum recommended cable impedance of 0.1 ohms.

Thanks

Smerlas

[smerlas]

And for those who may be interested.  The Byston speaker cables have been ordered.  I will post my impressions after giving them a try.

 

[Mag]

The BCD-1 will make the biggest difference when you get it. You will hear sounds in your cds that you don't know are there. For example I have the original Ecstasy of Gold by Morricone. I can distinguish the harp instrument in the recording that previously was just part of the overall sound. Even some of my 320 mp3 recordings played through the BCD-1 are as good as cd. And this is with ordinary speaker wire.

[smerlas]

The BCD1 will sound great. I have no doubts about that.  My previous demo of the Musical Fidelity A5 CD player has demonstated the differences in transports.  If the BCD1 lives up to a fraction of its reviews it will be killer.

The speaker cables will have a corresponding effect on all sources, tuner, CD etc.  I am trying to "optimize" the entire system, not the least of which being the cables.  So my desire is to optimize this portion of the system.  Bowers & Wilkins speakers, Bryston amplifier ........ can't be connected with coat hangers (oops ...... wrong forum).

Adding the BCD1 will just be that much better.  I want to ensure that if it is reproduced it makes it way to the speakers and then to my ears.

 

[Toka]

And for those who may be interested.  The Byston speaker cables have been ordered.  I will post my impressions after giving them a try.

Hi smerlas,

Any updates? I was thinking of trying these as well...

[Panelman]

The BCD-1 will make the biggest difference when you get it. You will hear sounds in your cds that you don't know are there. For example I have the original Ecstasy of Gold by Morricone. I can distinguish the harp instrument in the recording that previously was just part of the overall sound. Even some of my 320 mp3 recordings played through the BCD-1 are as good as cd. And this is with ordinary speaker wire.

Mag,

can you tell me where in Ecstasy of the Gold you hear the harp? I think I have the original recording and am trying to pick it out. My version is from the cd "A Fistful of Film Music" Disc 1
Thanks
Sean

[denjo]

The Bryston speaker cables (as posted on the web www.bryston.ca) appears to be see-through covering, allowing one to see the copper strands underneath the jacket. My worry is that the copper will tarnish - especially in my tropical clime because of high humidity - and turn green. I have read that the green tarnish does affect the sound.

Best Regards
Dennis

[Mag]

>>can you tell me where in Ecstasy of the Gold you hear the harp? I think I have the original recording and am trying to pick it out. My version is from the cd "A Fistful of Film Music" Disc 1
Thanks<<

I listened to a short clip on amazon and it sounds like, but is hard to tell,if it is the same version I have from 'Way Out West'. I also have 'The Good the Bad & Ugly' original soundtrack. But to my ears that is not the version in the movie.
The movie version is 3:20 seconds, the version I have though sounding the same is only 3:00. How long is your version?
Anyway, the song starts with a piano, around  1:08 it fades to the background. I may be mistaken, it could be a piano just that I don't think a piano can be played delicately like that, so I assumed it was a harp.
What instrument do you think it is?

[Mag]

I A/B the movie to the 'Way Out West' version the best I can tell. The movie copy I have is only 2-channel and doesn't have the resolution of the cd. I'm not able to discern the difference, yet there is a difference of approx. 20 seconds. I'm guessing they did more than one take for the movie and the take I have didn't sequence with the movie time and therefore has a slightly faster tempo. Other than that I don't know.

[Mag]

I apologize, apparently I don't have the original on cd. After searching for info on the original movie version  'Ecstasy of Gold'.

Original:
conductor: Bruno Nicolai, Orchestra Cinefonica Italiana

The 'Way Out West' Re-make version:
conductor: Derek Wadsworth, Prague Philharmonic Orchestra

[Panelman]

I apologize, apparently I don't have the original on cd. After searching for info on the original movie version  'Ecstasy of Gold'.

Original:
conductor: Bruno Nicolai, Orchestra Cinefonica Italiana

The 'Way Out West' Re-make version:
conductor: Derek Wadsworth, Prague Philharmonic Orchestra

No need to apologize, I was just interested in your input.  An amp is my next purchase so I thought the Ecstasy of the Gold would be a good test. Pretty much sold on a Bryston anyway but its fun to compare.
Thanks
Sean

[vegasdave]

How do you bi-wire with only one set of posts per channel, like on my 4BSST.

[James Tanner]

How do you bi-wire with only one set of posts per channel, like on my 4BSST.

Hi Dave,

On the amp end just use a SPADE and a Banana (expandable type) -it works great!

james

[vegasdave]

Thanks, James. Now can you biwire with one set of speaker cables bare wire?