[kyrill]

This is ridiculous!!!

I wanted to have as good as possible digital copies from my LP's for personal use
with the SB3.
So i emailed sonicperfectionists.com

2008/4/30 Kyrill goosseff
hi
i met yr website but i find very little info of  normal LP to digital conversions. i see a lot about 78 rpm, but i mean 33 rpm
these lp's can be converted as well with a good cartridge?

I want my lp's to move to an usb memory disk is that possible in .flac format? would be less work than  writing to cd and all the art/print work
Regards
Kyrill

jim@sonicperfectionists.com
to   Kyrill goosseff
date   30 April 2008 23:24
subject   Re: analogue to digi conversions
   
hide details 23:24 (21 hours ago)
   
   
Reply
   
   
Hi Kyrill,

While we certainly have the ability to convert LPs, we do not do so very
often.  We attempt to stay away from copyrighted materials, and
unfortunately almost all LPs are copyrighted.  The only LPs which we will
accept for conversion are those very rare ones which are clearly not
copyrighted, or those for which the customer either owns, or has secured
duplication rights.

If your LPs should fall into one of those categories, we would be happy to
help you.  Otherwise, we must respectfually decline this request.

Thanks for your interest,

Best Regards,

Jim

Hi Jim

I own the Lp's  I will send
how else can it be?
I cannot make LP copies on LP

They are all "already old" before 1997 but my MC cartridge broke down and
i
 dont want to spend another 1500+ dollars on cartridges. Since i have
discovered how good the SB3 sounds when properly modded, i want the
convenience of digital playback from the computer
 I will send the Lp's to you
Before the digital age, many copied their Lp's on cassettedeck  to make it
mobile
Greetz
> Kyrill

2008/5/1 <jim@sonicperfectionists.com>:
- Hide quoted text -

    Hi Kyrill,

    I sympathise with your predicament, and I really wish that we could help.
    Unfortunately the recording industry doesn't see matters this way, and
    they are now suing for many activities that nobody believed was illegal in
    the past.  Please read the below article for one example.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319276,00.html

    So I'm very sorry, but I must cannot accept your order.

    Best Regards,

    Jim"
====================

What is your opinion? How can this be??

[Sonny]

Kryill,
I would assume you can transfer it as follows:
LP to CD
CD to Harddrive...
T

[sts9fan]

DIY?  Hagtech ripper?

[bpape]

You can thank the RIAA for that.  The company is just playing CYA to avoid being sued.  You'll need to do your own conversion most likely.

Kinda sucks but it's reality these days.

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

Maybe "Tirrade"{sp?} can help you out? (he does it with CD's)
If not, I'm sure there's somebody around here willing (and able).

Bob

[TONEPUB]

You will have to do it with a Benchmark ADC or something similar....

It can be done!

I actually have a friend that is interested in doing this and specializing from
LP!  How interested are you guys and what would you pay?

Also, how long would you be willing to wait???

let me know...

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey Kyrill,
Here's a several page thread about this very subject. Of course there's a little off topic chat to keep things interesting, but lots of possible solutions sprinkled in there too:
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1245&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Bob

[kyrill]

thx ppl

i choose SonicPerfectionists because they actually tell  what kind of turntable and element
they are converting with. I dont want someone with an Audio Technica AT-LP2D-USB turntable, http://www.amazon.com/Technica-AT-LP2DUSB-Digital-Recording-System/dp/B000UKUDSE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1209675553&sr=8-1#
now available for under 80 dollars.. converting my cherished LP.s

ah well i will look into it. I was merely acquiring info i will need this summer-august. So Tonepub ( Jeff?) I am not in a hurry. If I had the money i would convert 500-700 LP, but  on short term my most missed 50-100 LP
I think that i, on 2nd thought, better buy a decent moving magnet and the Hagermann

but that lawyer is idiotic, how can one personal copy, necessary for a new type of player ( sb3 or Ipod) be unlawful?

hi Bob

quote That's not illegal Terry. It's when you make a copy and it leaves your posession. That's their grip. Doesn't matter what happens when that burnt/copied disc leaves your CDP, they can bust you for it. Weather you sell it (of course) or even LOAN IT to somebody, they think that's bad...
Towards the bottom of the page I linked earlier is a heading "Copying CD's". In that they say "it's illegal to give away the copy, or lend it to others.......
Now, I'm not preaching to anybody. I can't say that every disc I've ripped/burnt has been destroyed when I was finished with it.
I just wouldn't recommend talking about trading/loaning/borrowing/sharing/lending/giving in public.
Copying/"backing up"/harddrive storage/ripping/burning is OK (as long as the harddrive isn't accessable on a network that exits your house.)

Bob
unquote

So is it unlawful for the  professional to do the conversion and let the client use the copies within exactly the above descriptions??

[Bob in St. Louis]

So is it unlawful for the  professional to do the conversion and let the client use the copies within exactly the above descriptions??

"Technically"......Yes. It's against the law.
I've read the RIAA's site and there is a section that says you can't even LOAN your CD (or LP, Tape, DVD, SACD etc....) to anyone else. So yea, I'm sure they'd defecate themselves if they find out you're shipping your entire library somewhere for the sole purpose of making copies. I assume they're super-ultra-uber-hyper-paranoid and want to cover all their bases.
"Technically"......You can make your copies and archive the originals. The copies must always stay in your possession.

Talk of RIAA and legality is going to destroy your thread and take it way OT Kyrill.

Bob

[Doublej]

Any lawyers in the house?

I am curious as to under what grounds they claim it's illegal to loan your property to someone else. Last time I bought a CD there was no shrink wrap license agreement or anything else that attempted to restrict my usage rights other than those imposed by copyright law.

How do libraries deal with this? Do they have some sort of exemption?

[JoshK]

The way *I* see it, the RIAA is claiming a lot things are illegal, things that were long thought legal under the fair use laws.  They are trying their damnedest to claim and claim and sue and sue to influence the laws in their favor, but this is a yet to be proven outcome as I see it.  In such a juriprudent environment, businesses such as SonicPerfectionists are CYA'ing.

[Drofo]

Little Rant time!!!

I am pretty tired of these tyrants and their heavy handedness in this affair.  To me it seems that what they have done is to make me a permanent renter of "copyrighted material".  Any other product that I own from a Book to a TV set, allows me as the owner to do with it as I please. I can buy a book, sell it give it away, even leave it on a park bench if i feel like it and as the rightful owner, I am fully able to do so. 

When I buy a musical performance however, my rights will never exceed that of someone renting the same article, either from a dealer or a library.

Since I no longer can "own" any music and can only rent it no matter how much I pay or for however long I have possessed it, why should I bother purchasing any more.  Even If I have had the music in my possession to hand down to my grandchildren, they too will never own under these conditions.

Your thoughts Gentlemen.

[Daygloworange]

I am curious as to under what grounds they claim it's illegal to loan your property to someone else. Last time I bought a CD there was no shrink wrap license agreement or anything else that attempted to restrict my usage rights other than those imposed by copyright law.

Read the part in the liner notes on any album that says more or less.... " unauthorized reproduction or lending is strictly forbidden".

What you are in fact buying is the rights to listen to "that" disc of an artist's (or record company's [depending on the publishing rights]) intellectual property, and not profit(yourself) or cause the loss of profits to the owners of commercial rights to that material.

How do libraries deal with this? Do they have some sort of exemption?

I believe that libraries might be exempt, or (in theory only) pay a minimal licensing fee to ASCAP.

Establishments that have jukeboxes (back in the good ole days) would have to pay royalties for the rights to charge patrons on a "pay to play" basis.

Technically, if you play in a "bar" band, and play "cover" tunes, you are required to (declare monies earned/ and) be part of an organization that pays a percentage of monies earned, in royalties to ASCAP, who then disburses the funds accordingly to the record companies.

It gets complicated..... real complicated.....


But in all fairness..... the record business is tough. A lot of people don't fully understand how record "deals" are done, and what is all involved. There is a huge upfront investment (by the record companies) in any new artist before their record ever sees a record store bin, or gets spun on the airwaves. Sometimes in the millions of dollars.

Sometimes they never see a return on investment. There are a lot of "development" artists who's records never even get released, and the record company takes a loss.

What they are trying to do is protect their intellectual property (that which can be easily pirated), no different than any other business or individual would.

Cheers

[Doublej]

Read the part in the liner notes on any album that says more or less.... " unauthorized reproduction or lending is strictly forbidden".

Thanks.

I just checked a half dozen CDs and five had a statement about unauthorized reproduction or duplication only but one had an explicit statement about unauthorized lending, broadcast or public performance as well. But as best I can tell I can sell it to a friend for a dollar and then he can sell it back to me when he is done listening to it and that's just fine.

Is lending, broadcast, and public performance covered by copyright laws or their own claimed laws?

Be careful folks. Playing your CDs too loudly with open windows in your car could get you slapped with an lawsuit for unauthorized public broadcast.

I imagine that they have already threatened the car stereo competitions with lawsuits if they didn't pay some fee to cover people playing CDs at these events.

[kyrill]

they can write down on any cd what they like as "they "dont make the law The value of what they write is what the judge in that country is saying.
Are in fact people judged by court as being unlawful because they made a personal copy of a disk they own on a hard disk only to listen to, with no proof or likelihood whatsoever of lending or sharing it on the internet? Meaning at least one person is fined for only personal use of a copy of his own disk?
and all those "little letters" about warning what you cannot do, are they on Lp's before 1996/7 too?
if not, does the new regulations apply to them too?

another approach
who do i write a letter to to ask permission ( authorization) for my lp's to be played on SB3?

[Gordy]

It is perfectly legal for you to make a copy of a CD or LP that you own, if that copy is for your own use and you retain possession of the original, legally purchased edition.  As I understand it, any CDR or HD copy must be destroyed if you ever sell the original or if the original is traded, stolen or destroyed.  Also, should you ever declare bankrupcy you'll need to destroy all your copies as well... 

[JLM]

I'd say the only place you might be "crossing the line" would be to copy and then sell the original.  This can happen rather easily.  Wifey wanted to do some house cleaning.  So I donated some CDs to the cause (ones I never listen to).  But I'd ripped a bunch of CDs too.  As none of the ripped CDs were the ones I sold, it should be OK.

Here's another scenario.  It happens that I and my kids' musical taste has some overlap.  I continue to use the CD, but they rip it (maybe it goes onto their iPod too).  So this could be a problem.  But if you make a copy say just for car use, and someone else happens to listen to it (for argument's sake at the same moment you were listening to the CD at home), would that be a problem?

Bottom line, I want to respect the law and the company's/artists' rights, so I should be careful how far the copies go and what they're used for.  If you copy/rip once and put the original away for safe keeping I don't see a problem.

[kyrill]

 ok
my original problem is that sonicperfectionist does not dare to accept me as a client
are they unlawful if they made my lp-->digital conversion for strict personal use?

[Bob in St. Louis]

I agree 100% with the last posts by Gordy and JLM (although I don't know about the bankruptcy scenario).
Regarding sonicperfectionist; They are now in possession of your music library. Wouldn't that be defined as "loaning"? I think the RIAA is worried an unscrupulous employee or company may make copies of your material for themselves while in their possession. Or possibly sell copies of your music to other people. I don't know man.... I'd like do to the right thing too but since their definitions of things you can and can't do are vague and generalized, I think "the right thing" as far as they're concerned would be to not even own the means to copy material.  I don't see anything wrong with you having a competent person/company make quality copies for you, but I don't know how to go about doing it legally?

Bob

[kyrill]

a bit of topic

can you recommend a .wav, or .flac  download site with a large collections ( incl pop and rock country folk next to jazz an classical)  of music paid by track or whole album, including the possibility of pre listening AND who is not the most expensive on the net?

I just started today to investigate,  so i have zero experience in this