[DanTheMan]

The SI is the best speaker I've heard for the money.  Is it perfect?  No.  Is it awesome for the price?  definitely.  I find the tweeter to be the best $30 tweeter I've ever heard.  It's dynamic and realistic, just not refined so much.  It sounds much better w/o the resistors in my experience.  Maybe throw some mills in as replacements.  There are no resistors in my crossover b/c I'm bi-amped and I can just adjust the level of the tweeter amp.  This is the first speaker I have ever owned and enjoyed listening to for 2 years after nearly 15 years in the hobby.

Just my 2 cents,

Dan

[Justincaz]

try going active. tweeter adjustments on your amp will result in uneven respons. it usually corrects from 2-5khz with about +-4db.
the 1001asd tweeter gives out 10db more thruout the range. if you buy an digital filter you can adjust alomust anything, and the silver iris needs it.

[JLM]

I've heard SI at Hurdy Gurdy Dave's and was way impressed with the content value.  And you simply can't find more efficiency and deep bass for the money.  Yes, it does sound professional (as rightly mentioned, a machine doing its job).  Not the most detailed (but would be a good thing when put into a price appropriate system).  Yes there is an upper midrange dispersion hole as you crossover a 15 inch driver to a tweeter.  Dave had twin Augies in attic mounted I.B. that he switched in and out.  They worked great, but were only missed on very deep bass demonstration kind of material, so I doubt you'd really need a sub unless you're doing HT.

I also recently heard the Sterling Duet at AKFest.  Now we're cooking with gas.  Very refined, easy to listen to.  In the 12 ft x 15 ft rooms the transmission lines and open baffles were the only speakers that had foundational bass but didn't boom at 80 Hz.  The down side is cost.  While the SI are value leaders, the Sterling Duet with Darryl's fine craftsmanship run $3700/pair (plus you need a sub amp of some sort).  Not overpriced for sure, but in a different league.

[mcgsxr]

Justin, how long have you owned the Hawthorne speakers?  What configurations have you tried?

I have never heard them, but the broad number of people I know who have that like them, and whose opinion I trust, would lead me to believe that Daryl and crew are on to something good.

I happen to use b200 Visatons, and have for over 3 years now, but it took a lot of playing around with baffle size, shape, and for me amp synergy to pull it all together.

Most first time Hawthorne users report tremendous ease "out of the box", and over time investigate optimization.

Enjoy what you use, share how you got there!  We all have lots to learn in this sandbox,

[Bob in St. Louis]

I respect Justincaz's opinion, but with all due respect, I disagree.
I'm curious as to which version of the crossover you heard, and if the drivers were fresh (new and a bit "tight"), or well broken in?
From day one of having a pair of the SI's in a DIY baffle I knew I was on to something special. I was hearing things I'd not heard from CD's I've had for decades and listened to countless times. Baffle size, shape and construction is the 'fine tuning' needed to achieve "personalized" open baffle euphoria. Maybe the baffle was not to Justincaz's liking. Who knows? Maybe it was a "bad" room for OB. We are all sensitive to certain frequencies. Maybe the tubes in use were not flattering? Maybe the owner of the SI's thought things were perfect for his liking, but obviously not to Justincaz's preference.
I've said before that I have zero interest in searching for other/different speakers/drivers. Nothing on this earth is to everybody's liking, maybe with the exception of the air we breathe. So was the pair of SI's Justincaz auditioned up to his high standard? Obviously not, but regarding the muffled midrange, maybe the baffle was too wide? One of my early baffle "mules" made the midrange too "tubby" sounding. One baffle creation later fixed that problem. Simple solution, and fun to experiment with as well.
As far as I'm concerned, there's way too many variables at work here to totally discount these drivers. These aren't a typical pair of boxed speakers you shove against a wall and press 'play'. Way too many variables here. Without even touching the driver, tweeter, or crossover, there's countless things that can be done to make these work for a great many different listening preferences. It just depends on how much work you're willing to put into them. This isn't a toaster. You simply don't yank it from the box, there's more too it. As far as I'm concerned, building baffles is a labor of love. It is not work (for me) by any stretch of the imagination. If you're of the "plug and play" mentality, giving a review on a pair of bare SI's stuck in the first hunk of plywood you cut is an injustice.

Sterling Duet with Darryl's fine craftsmanship run $3700/pair (plus you need a sub amp of some sort).

Or, for somebody willing to make sawdust, about $1,500 for the Sterling drivers, tweeters and 'uber' crossover.

Bob

[DanTheMan]

I should mention a bit more about the tweeter.  There may be a bit of a dispersion hole between the 15 and the tweeter, but only slight.  At least it doesn't beam like a FRer.  It also takes a long time to burn in.  As far as integration goes, it's as integrated as any woofer/tweeter combination I've ever heard.  They all have some issues, but the coax configuration seems to minimize them.  I suspect the 10 would sound even better integrated though you'll lose the dynamics and extension to some degree.  With the original crossover, integration was not very good.  Since Dave gave it a thorough overhaul, it's fantastic and I honestly haven't heard any woofer/tweeter combo that sounds much better integrated.  The only thing I've ever heard that I can surely say sounds better integrated is a FRer.  Every speaker is a compromise.  Choose the ones you can live with.

[Justincaz]

I respect Justincaz's opinion, but with all due respect, I disagree.
I'm curious as to which version of the crossover you heard, and if the drivers were fresh (new and a bit "tight"), or well broken in?
From day one of having a pair of the SI's in a DIY baffle I knew I was on to something special. I was hearing things I'd not heard from CD's I've had for decades and listened to countless times. Baffle size, shape and construction is the 'fine tuning' needed to achieve "personalized" open baffle euphoria. Maybe the baffle was not to Justincaz's liking. Who knows? Maybe it was a "bad" room for OB. We are all sensitive to certain frequencies. Maybe the tubes in use were not flattering? Maybe the owner of the SI's thought things were perfect for his liking, but obviously not to Justincaz's preference.

or maybe it was the speakers? every aspect i didnt like about them vanished when a proper design took theyr place. such as B&W, PSB, Dynaudio..
and yes, the drivers are fully broken in well over a year now. iv heared them both as brand new and in the recent weeks. they have a fine baffle and we have tried them out thru 4-5 full set combinations of electronics. all the way from cheap cambridge too expensive single ended stuff.

me im wondering why the genius of a 15" + 1" design just flew past all speaker manufacturer's on the planet..? is there a reason why noone uses anything larger than 8" for midrange?

sure, the silver iris is very good for the price indeed! atleast the drivers by themselves. but the speaker design as a whole is bad(no pun intended). the woofer heavely distorts its upper range, both drivers are to directional and the frequency respons feels like a rollercoaster. the tweeter isnt even level matched to the woofers sensitivity (if so it may be the rising respons of the compression unit itself).. also the tweeter is phase inverted to fix a peak somewhere, this makes the integration with the woofer even worse!

im curious about the sterling edition thou, it has a much better compression driver and a crossover freq. witch is much more fitting for a woofer at that size. maybe iv even interested in getting a pair sometime big drivers are fun and pack a punch on deep male voices. but are they going to set the standards for the hifi industry? no, never. if so we would have seen em allover. the only one that comes to mind is Tannoy Glenair 15. and it also has its own kind of audio personality.

[dweekie]

I respect Justincaz's opinion, but with all due respect, I disagree.
I'm curious as to which version of the crossover you heard, and if the drivers were fresh (new and a bit "tight"), or well broken in?
From day one of having a pair of the SI's in a DIY baffle I knew I was on to something special. I was hearing things I'd not heard from CD's I've had for decades and listened to countless times. Baffle size, shape and construction is the 'fine tuning' needed to achieve "personalized" open baffle euphoria. Maybe the baffle was not to Justincaz's liking. Who knows? Maybe it was a "bad" room for OB. We are all sensitive to certain frequencies. Maybe the tubes in use were not flattering? Maybe the owner of the SI's thought things were perfect for his liking, but obviously not to Justincaz's preference.

or maybe it was the speakers? every aspect i didnt like about them vanished when a proper design took theyr place. such as B&W, PSB, Dynaudio..
and yes, the drivers are fully broken in well over a year now. iv heared them both as brand new and in the recent weeks. they have a fine baffle and we have tried them out thru 4-5 full set combinations of electronics. all the way from cheap cambridge too expensive single ended stuff.

me im wondering why the genius of a 15" + 1" design just flew past all speaker manufacturer's on the planet..? is there a reason why noone uses anything larger than 8" for midrange?

sure, the silver iris is very good for the price indeed! atleast the drivers by themselves. but the speaker design as a whole is bad(no pun intended). the woofer heavely distorts its upper range, both drivers are to directional and the frequency respons feels like a rollercoaster. the tweeter isnt even level matched to the woofers sensitivity (if so it may be the rising respons of the compression unit itself).. also the tweeter is phase inverted to fix a peak somewhere, this makes the integration with the woofer even worse!

im curious about the sterling edition thou, it has a much better compression driver and a crossover freq. witch is much more fitting for a woofer at that size. maybe iv even interested in getting a pair sometime big drivers are fun and pack a punch on deep male voices. but are they going to set the standards for the hifi industry? no, never. if so we would have seen em allover. the only one that comes to mind is Tannoy Glenair 15. and it also has its own kind of audio personality.

Heh, I think it's best to say you did not find the Silver Iris to you liking and leave it at that.  Once you start arguing over "proper" designs, it doesn't leave you in a very smart position.  You may find the new 10" Sterling Silver in development more to your liking if you feel the integration of the compression driver an issue with a 15" driver.

[JLM]

The Silver coax offerings represent incredible value considering the cost, efficiency, frequency response range (sub not needed for music only applications), and the lack of cabinet required.  Try finding 40 - 20k, 97 dB/w/m drivers for $145 each that work without an enclosed cabinet somewhere else.  These are the definitive low cost O.B. options on the market today.  But...

Like Hurdy Gurdy Dave pointed out the Silvers are built to a price point.  Obviously the profit margin is pretty low.  Darryl has a full time job and primarily does this for the love, not the money.

The undebatable challenge with the design is transitioning from a 15 inch to a 1 inch set of drivers.  That it works at all is rather amazing.  I've not heard the 10 inch version and don't quite understand how it reaches as deep as the 15 incher, but it should help alleviate the related issues.  I'd really like to hear a Sterling 10 inch coax by itself.

That $290/pair drivers aren't perfect shouldn't be a surprise or even debated.  I think Justincaz makes valid points.  Keep in mind that these drivers are a Big Mac priced to be on the value menu, not your favorite $8 burger.  Like Dan stated, choose your compromise (price, crossover issues, efficiency, depth of bass, coaxial design, size, etc.). 

[Bob in St. Louis]

Well said dweekie, I'll agree with that.

Bob

[hurdy_gurdyman]

The undebatable challenge with the design is transitioning from a 15 inch to a 1 inch set of drivers.  That it works at all is rather amazing.  I've not heard the 10 inch version and don't quite understand how it reaches as deep as the 15 incher, but it should help alleviate the related issues.  I'd really like to hear a Sterling 10 inch coax by itself.

JLM,

Just to clarify a bit, the 10" Coaxial is about an octave short in bass extension compared to the 15 Coaxial. You just can't get around those laws of physics. The 15 can be crossed in the 40-50 Hz range while the 10 works better in the 80-100 Hz range. It does have usable energy down lower, but at a reduced level.
I have the only existing 10 Sterling Coaxial pair at home right now. Still in the final tweaking of the XO stage. I'm still experimenting with standard performance XO components before ordering high end ones. I still haven't received official OK from the guy at the top that these are going to be an actual Hawthorne Audio product or not. You are always welcome to check out what I have, though.

Dave

[penderaudio]

I just got a set of the 10" SI's and love them them!  I am definitly crossing my fingers hoping that the 10" Sterlings will be a reality   I have a set of Radian 465's I'm debating on trying to tinker with them, But I'm also, waiting for the Stock Eminence tweeters to break in fully.

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I just got a set of the 10" SI's and love them them!  I am definitly crossing my fingers hoping that the 10" Sterlings will be a reality   I have a set of Radian 465's I'm debating on trying to tinker with them, But I'm also, waiting for the Stock Eminence tweeters to break in fully.

The Eminence tweeters seem to take forever to break-in. Worth the wait, though, as they will eventually sound very detailed and natural.

Dave

[JLM]

Thanks for the invite and the info on the 10 inch versus 15 inch bass response.  But someone had better fix the Hawthorne website as it states the same Fs.   

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Thanks for the invite and the info on the 10 inch versus 15 inch bass response.  But someone had better fix the Hawthorne website as it states the same Fs.   

I hadn't noticed that. I'll look into it. The Performance grade 15 Coaxial has (going from memory here) an fs of around 41 Hz, while the 10 Coaxial has an fs around 54 Hz. The smaller driver can't move as much air at 54 Hz as the the 15 driver can, and with no box help, just sounds smaller. Law of physics thing that always gets in the way. The bass it has is quite satisfying and very taunt (lean) sounding, but lacks something when crossed below around 80 Hz or so. It's the same with any smaller driver on OB. Lots of driver size is needed to move lots of air to get powerful bass.

Dave

[gooberdude]

Dave,

What was done to the woofers or x-overs on the Sterlings to let them play so deep??

The other night I forgot to turn the plate amp on, and had no idea I was Auggie-less until a track with ultra deep bass played.

The Sterlings really can hold their own as a full range driver.   I never got that impression with the SI's. The Sterling woofer sounds quite a bit difft to my ears than the SI woofer.    Deeper, tighter, fuller.   Much more capable of delivering the goods.

[hurdy_gurdyman]

The Sterlings have a little lower fs, around 35.9 Hz This may not account for it all. The cast frames are more rigid and have more open air gaps behind them. All this combined gives the effect of having deeper/cleaner bass.

Dave

[gooberdude]

Its hard to believe more changes weren't made to the woofer...it sounds like a difft beast.   
Radian tweeter aside, the differences I hear must be your x-over.    aa

These beauties are so ridiculous.  Though only a month old the holographic 3-D separation of the musicians is jaw dropping.  art in both form and function.     

The Sterling's presentation and capabilities should appeal to a lot more folks...     

At only about $1000 more than the SI's, and the ability to pop them into existing baffles, I think the popularity will swell as folks are exposed. 

[dewar]

I've had a pair of Sterlings for quite a few months now and and still find interesting the lack of congruity between what I see and hear. I would also have guessed that a 15" driver would have a hard time with the delicate bits, but I just dont hear it.

I think the theory of a 15" driver not being able to integrate well with a tweeter is largely due to their hugely different sizes and the thought that they cant possibly have common ground. Which makes me wonder why I've never heard the idea that planars and electrostats cant do mid and high frequencies well? While I can see this causing an uneven radiation pattern outside of the sweet spot, I've never noticed it.

The idea I read here somewhere that the drivers different sizes and radiation patterns cause and uneven 'power response' (I think that was the term used), i.e that they sound radiated back from the room is skewed in its FR and that this is a problem, doesnt make sense to me when I think that even though off axis FR is skewed, and that there is little rear wave radiation above 3k, that this particular coaxial design still probably has a more even 'power response' that a typical monopole speaker which radiates largely only lower bass towards the rear. The 'controlled directivity' (as Emerald Physic call it) of a larger driver can also be a boon in other regards.

On theory I shouldnt be a candidate for such large drivers as my ears dont allow me to listen over 75db, hence a lot of my listening these days is intimate small scale stuff(rock just doesnt rock as much at those volumes). But surprisingly on female voice I prefer the Sterling driver to the B200's, Zu's, Dynaudio's and B&W's I owned previous to the Sterlings. Out of interest I had a good listen to a pair of B&W 805 and Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos in the last few weeks, mainly with unaccompanied vocal music, and came away feeling glad I owned the SSI's instead of these. I dont want to sound like a proselytizer, just want to put in sufficient word for the Sterling that more people might go out of their way to hear them and not scratch them of their short lists on the basis of design or speculation.

B.

edit: have not heard the cheaper Performance Grade SI

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Its hard to believe more changes weren't made to the woofer...it sounds like a difft beast.   
Radian tweeter aside, the differences I hear must be your x-over.    aa

Yeah, the XO's are a whole different league. Those hefty foil inductors make a big difference in bass response.

Dave