[cporada]

Hi
I'm considering giving open baffle speakers a try and am wondering if anyone has any opinions they'd like to share about Hawthorne Audio's Solo or Duet speakers.  In particular, I'm interested in how natural a sound these have, since the review on Positive Feedback, while very enthusiastic, did mention that the compression tweeter made these sound a bit "pro sound" rather than smooth like a home speaker, which makes me quite nervous, since I would be moving to open baffle in the hopes of getting that liquid smoothness and "organic" palpability that I've read so much about.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Chris

[cporada]

One other thing to add; I currently have a stereo pair of DIY Adire Audio Shiva subwoofers that are powered by their own plate amps with adjustable crossover, so would these be usable with an open baffle design like the Solo, or would I have to use an open baffle sub design as well for good integration?
Thanks
Chris

[Brad]

Chris,

Can't help you on the sub integration question, as I have a pair of custom Duets - already using the Augies.
I would GUESS the Adires would be a pretty good match - since you can adjust both level and xover.

On the other questions:
To me, they sound quite natural.
The realistic sound and the way OB speakers load a room is why I have kept the Hawthornes in my system for so long.

I am in Houston - you are welcome to come listen to them if you are anywhere close

[Bob in St. Louis]

Hey Chris,
Regarding the integration issue; The Adire should be fine. If you enter the world of OB and decide it's your cup of tea, you can easily try OB as your main source of bass later, at your own pace.

Regarding my opinion of HawthorneAudio......Well......um......L et's see.......How can I say this........ I've been called a "shilling super secret salesman" for Hawthorne due strictly for my childlike enthusiasm for the product. I must be careful how I word my absolute loyalty to their products lest I offend anyone. There's currently eleven of their drivers in my room. Everyday they give me great pleasure. But....I must carefully choose my words to describe the joy I receive from them for two channel and home theater listening.

I'll have to get back to you Chris. I can't think of how to put emotions into words and keep myself out of trouble at the same time.

Bob

[Brad]

Chris,

I would also add that even if you don't go Hawthorne, definitely play around with OB.
It's a lot of fun and you can experiment easily/quickly/cheaply with different baffles.

Bob,

'secret'??  really??   I'm surprised you haven't changed your last name to Hawthorne 

[Bob in St. Louis]

I tried Brad. The idea didn't fly with the wife.  She called me a loser and said she'd already changed her last name once. She's not doing it again. 

Bob Hawthorne   

[nodiak]

No problem using the Shivas with OB mains, Hawthornes or others. If the combo doesn't satisfy you'll just change it later  .
How high will the amp allow the Shivas to crossover?
If it will go to 160hz or higher than you could choose to try Visaton B200's, or other widerange drivers. Myself and others have tried Hawthornes, B200's, some Fostex, 8" Hemp and others on OB, with sealed subs. It's purely a matter of taste what you'll like. Some smaller widerangers get in trouble on OB without a crossover, (ex. ~ 100uF caps).
As you've probably seen by now there are thousands of pages of discussions going a few years back on the OB subject on lots of forums. How into to it do you want to go?
I like the Hawthornes but agree with the warning about the tweeter, purely depends on the individual what does and doesn't please. Lots of nice tricks presented in this forum for the B200's, which I also like. For the most part other drivers have less examples of use, but there are alot of drivers that can work, with some effort. 
I go in and out of the hobby. Recently I got a deal on some Radian coaxials and will eventually try the Radian tweeter with some 10" Hawthornes drivers I have. I think this will be a good combo. I use a sealed sub too. My favorite midrange flavor is the 8" Hemp driver, but I haven't got the time and focus yet to dial in a tweeter and xo for it as it doesn't reach the upper range I like...oh if I could attach this Radian tweeter to it, yum. So I'm always in a compromise...but it's painless and beats playing in traffic.
Don

 

[cporada]

Thanks for all the helpful input regarding my questions.  It seems the Shiva's are "keepers" for now. 
Regarding the tweeter, what is it that some people dislike about this tweeter?  Is it harsh/sibilant?  How would it compare to the tweeter in my current speakers, which is a Vifa H26TG-35-06?
Thanks so much again; I'm very eager to give OB's a try after all these enthusiastic endorsements!
Chris

[KCM]

I have a pair of Hawthorne Duets.  I did not care for the stock tweeter, and I found the overall balance not to my liking with the supplied crossover.  I installed a pair of Radian tweeters as used on the Sterling version, and switched to an active crossover (Behringer DCX2496).  Many hours of measuring, listening, and tweaking have resulted in one of the best sounding pairs of speakers I've owned.  There is a lot of potential there, and the open baffle sound is addicting.

[nodiak]

The tw in the Silver Iris isn't super harsh or sibilant imo but is cold and too incisive (diplomatic term). It isn't all that "musical" but more like a machine doing a job. There's alot of tweaks offered on Hawthorne forum that might make it better to you.
I've used your Vifa semi-horn in an mtm with Vifa P13's and 12" bass. Imo it is a good solid grade B tweeter for a great price (typical Vifa attribute), and the 96db allows it to work with high output mtm's or for augmenting high efficiency drivers. Good clarity and openness etc, not up there with pricier tw's, but easy to live with and just good.
If you get Hawthornes you could try the Vifa tw with the SI woofer to get a feel for their tone together. Obviously would be missing the coax point source etc., but would give you an idea about the tone you're after.
Seems used SI's come up for sale for ~ $200/pr on Hawthorne site at times, could resale for ~ the same later if wanted to making it a cheap experiment.
Sounds like your speakers are diy? You know you can just cut driver holes in a board and hear ob with what you got (easy on the volume to protect the woofers). Good ol' 20" x 36" piece of ply with some shelf brackets to keep it standing. Can you say "weekend project"? Forget about all the design detail concerns, you can go as far into it as you want later, but get a taste first.
KCM, good to hear the Radians worked out, nice going.
Don. 

[cporada]

Thanks KCM and Nodiak
Does the radian tweeter as on the Sterling get rid of the issues with the standard Iris tweeter and put it more in league with a good "home audio" tweeter?  Also, to Nodiak, could I just build a large baffle with exactly the dimensions of my existing speakers, keep my dual 10" woofers in a sealed box with the same volume as their existing "home", but then allow the top of the tower with the MTM drivers to be open baffle?  I only ask, since the designer of my project (Mike Dzurko) probably considered baffle reflection/reinforcement when designing the crossovers.  My speakers are a DIY project from ACI called the alpha limited and consist of said Vifa tweeter with dual AC5 mid's and dual AC10 woofers in each channel.  The MTM are offset towards the inside of the baffle, i.e, towards the space between the speakers.
Thanks!
Chris

[nodiak]

cporada, I need to be clear that I'm just talking about getting a feel for the effect of drivers on OB by doing that. Out of the box and just on a flat baffle the mtm will have a different frequency response, but you will be able to experience the general qualities of OB. If you use a receiver/amp with tone controls you can adjust to taste. Then spend a week listening and getting the feel of it. THEN you will have some useful real life experience to ask more questions from, instead of getting bogged down in this vs that driver/design, and spending money.
Mikes ACI speakers are great. In the 80's when I was introduced to diy speakers I used some of his kit designs and drivers (I am NOT Mr. done it all diy speaker guy, but have done enough to follow along). Always smooth and just fine sounding, excellent job of blending them to sound coherent. Have used all 3 drivers you have. IMO if you could get the xo modified properly those drivers are about as good as any we're talking about. IMO you could build similar to the baffle you mentioned and spend time adjusting xo components, maybe go active, etc...whole different set of q's and a's tho. The GR Research OB-5's are very similar, but use several small drivers for bass. (Was also interesting to me that after I got involved in ob's a few years ago -en masse with darkstarers, etc- I realized in retrospect some of the stuff I was doing in 80's were basically ob's. One used ACI 10's in sealed, with a Focal two-way on top. The two-way's were mounted on 3-4" deep sonotube, the idea was an extra short tl. Sounded very open. Got all the ideas from Speaker Builder mag, was a super fun time.)
Well, looks like I may be the culprit to take your thread into the-inevitable-land-of-never-ending-possibilities, hang onto your head...
Don
PS. Yes the Radians are that kind of improvement.

[cporada]

Hi Don
Thanks so much for the clarification.  Do you know if Hawthorne sells the Silver Iris with the radian tweeter as an upgrade, or do you have to buy the sterling edition to get the radian?  Just curious, since the sterling is about $600 more than the standard silver, so I thought it might be possible to get at least part way to the sterling without spending quite so much.  To switch to the radian, are changes in crossover required?  I seem to remember reading somwhere that the radian is a drop-in replacement in the silver iris, but I may be mistaken.
Thanks again, I can't wait to start experimenting  aa
Chris

[laserman]

Okay, even though I don't own the Hawthorne Duets, I know KCM and he was nice enough to transport them over to my place not once, but twice.  The first time was in stock form and then KCM proceeded to test different configurations on the top end.  He didn't have the Radian TW the first time but he did use a pair of Fountek ribbon Super Tweeters.  These tweeters along with bypassing the stock XO caused KCM to pursue the alternate paths, which lead to the Radian TW and the Behringer and so much more…amps and XO settings.

When he transported them over the second time, they sounded wonderful.  His hard work, experimentation and magic touch paid off in a big way.  The sound was very clean, big, neutral and inviting.  OBTW, did I say how great the Duets look…Darrel and his wife do a great job building the speakers.  The only problem was I wanted a pair but realized I didn’t have the room for them and the associated gear.

Happy trails on your OB adventure trip.

Lou

[nodiak]

Chris, your best bet is to check with Darrel with those ideas. He's a good guy and will help if possible. Give him a PM on the Hawthorne site and he'll get back to you with straight talk about the possibilities. I'm not cutting out on you at all, I just haven't been to his site for awhile except to check on amp chat. There was talk of selling the Sterling parts seperate in the past I don't know if it's still that way. The SI woofer is different from the Sterling woofer, tweeters are different, xo's are different. Maybe the radian can be dropped in the SI with no or minimal xo change, that'd be cool. Radians are available at alot of places like Parts Express, they've been around awhile. Used pair of SI's, pair of Radians, some xo tweaking, might work out well.
KCM's success with SI woofer and Radian tweeter is promising, thanks for the post laserman. He should have alot to share on the subject.
Don 

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Hi Don
Thanks so much for the clarification.  Do you know if Hawthorne sells the Silver Iris with the radian tweeter as an upgrade, or do you have to buy the sterling edition to get the radian?  Just curious, since the sterling is about $600 more than the standard silver, so I thought it might be possible to get at least part way to the sterling without spending quite so much.  To switch to the radian, are changes in crossover required?  I seem to remember reading somwhere that the radian is a drop-in replacement in the silver iris, but I may be mistaken.
Thanks again, I can't wait to start experimenting  aa
Chris

Chris,

Darrel will sell the Radian tweeter separately. The specs for the Performance Silver Iris mid-woofer is similar, but not identical, to the Sterling Silver Iris mid-woofer. The XO parts list is available on the Hawthorne Forum (don't remember where at the moment). Now, I haven't actually tried this, so I can't say with complete confidence, but you could probably used standard grade crossover components to make a much less expensive crossover and use it with the PSI mid-woofer. The XO may not be a perfect match, but should be a big improvement over the Eminence tweeter.

I can say with confidence that the high end components used in the Sterling XO make a very noticeable improvement over the less expensive ones. I used the less expensive type of components when designing the SSI crossover. When I built the first pair of XO's with the expensive high end parts, I was very impressed with how much smoother and all over "clean" the sound was. It makes me wonder if maybe part of the issues some people have with the Eminence tweeter may be related to the less expensive XO components used. After all, there is a limit to what can be included with a speaker selling for this low of a price.

Hope this helps.

Dave aa

[cporada]

Hi Dave
Thanks very much for the helpful reply.  I know with my current speakers, I thought the tweeter was a bit harsh until I swapped in some Mundorf and Jupiter caps in the tweeter and mid sections of the crossover.  Low an behold, the tweeter was not the problem, so your point is well taken.  At this point, I think I'll save my money and go for the Sterlings with the upgraded crossovers to get the full benefits.
Thanks again
Chris

[hurdy_gurdyman]

Hi Dave
Thanks very much for the helpful reply.  I know with my current speakers, I thought the tweeter was a bit harsh until I swapped in some Mundorf and Jupiter caps in the tweeter and mid sections of the crossover.  Low an behold, the tweeter was not the problem, so your point is well taken.  At this point, I think I'll save my money and go for the Sterlings with the upgraded crossovers to get the full benefits.
Thanks again
Chris

Chris,

I think this is the best way to go. There really is a big improvement over the Performance Silver Iris's (PSI's) going with the Sterling Silver Iris's (SSI's). Also, all the guesswork has been taken out of it for you.

Dave

[gooberdude]

I've owned the Silver Iris drivers for a while. 

To me, the XO components (caps and resistors only) were the culprit of a somewhat trapped sound.   After swapping to more expensive Sonicaps & Mills products the music flows thoroughly.  the beast was released and she is pretty.   


the stock tweeter w/ a good tube amp is unreal.  so much fun.


The Hawthorne system is so complete for an OB newbie.  A huge, expansive and realistic stage is relatively simple to achieve...i can't recomend the SI's enough - unless you are set on no x-over at all.

[Justincaz]

i have aditioned the silver iris many times. they are good for the price of $300, but compared to a serious design or better drivers like visaton they dont stand a chance. midrage is muffled, the tweeter is harsh and doesnt integrate with the woofer atall.