Is leaving your equipment switched on the right thing?

darrenyeats · « **on:** 13 Apr 2008, 03:20 pm »

It's a Sunday afternoon so I'd like to suggest some ideas about leaving equipment switched on.

I used to leave my equipment switched on 24/7 in general, because it was supposed to sound better warmed up.

However, lately I've come to the conclusion that my equipment doesn't need any more than 15 minutes of warm-up before sounding its best. I leave it switched off except when I want to listen now. This saves:

me money
the environment some damage

Even if you think global warming is a conspiracy...isn't leaving things switched on a bit unnecessary?

I suppose the question is two-fold. First, does it make an audible difference anyway? Second, for those who feel it does make an audible difference, what is the right balance in terms of our personal behaviour?
Darren

denjo · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Apr 2008, 03:38 pm »

There is another reason why some leave their equipment on 24/7. They argue that turning audio on and off stresses and shortens the life of electronics and circuits. Those who are into tubes will usually not leave their tubed gear on 24/7 for the reverse reason, that tube life which usually has a shorter lease of several thousand hours, will be unnecessarily shortened. As for sounding its best, I think this applies more acutely to tube gear which usually begins to sound its best after about 1 hour's use. Yet, most tube people I know will not turn their gear on 24/7 but will accept the gradual sonic improvement from cold start as part and parcel of tube's inherent idiosyncrasy.

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Apr 2008, 04:59 pm »

I would say I see no benefit at all to sound quality as most SS is up and running almost immediately. As for wear and tear on the equipment, I think leaving it on all the time will shorten the life span of things like capacitors, potentiometers, things like that. If it's a preamp, power consumption should be low unless it's a surround processor, these babys get hotter then some amps. Mine has 3 micro processors going. As far as amps go, some amps will consume quite a bit of power in idle, especially class A.

My 2 cents worth.

Wayner

*Scotty* · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Apr 2008, 06:36 pm »

darrenyeats,I think it if it is SS gear your results will be system specific from a sonic standpoint. In my case both my preamp and power amp have Jensen 4 pole capacitors as the main filter supply caps. These caps appear to take about three weeks to fully break in before their dynamic impedance drops to it's lowest point. When the rail voltage is no longer applied
to the cap the dielectric barrier starts to unform and the result is a layer of haze or grunge that is proportional to the amount of time the circuit was unpowered. This is a consequence of the chemistry and the unique design of the capacitor which was designed for high speed switching power supplies that operate at switching speeds up to 1mHz. Many circuits may be transparent enough that if the power supplies filter caps unform to a significant degree you will notice that they may sound better if they are not turned off. My preamp takes at least a half an hour to thermally stabilize the power amp is probably about 15 minutes for warm up. I don't know if you can significantly lengthen the life of SS equipment by leaving it turned off when not in use or not. The average life of electrolytic caps is about 15 years if they are just setting unused on a shelf. As soon as they are made they are on the clock. Thermal cycling of your parts is probably not the best thing for increasing their service life,if things are running on the hot side,say above 140 degrees F., you will impact the life of the part and have to derate its' life expectancy based on how far you are above its' designed operating temperature. Semi-conductors that are operated within their temperature limits don't no how old they are and can last for decades. More to the point however is how long does a component have to last. If you are keeping up with the advance of technology at all
your SS equipment stands a good chance of being obsolete from a performance standpoint long before it wears out. It may only have to last long enough for you to sell a still working unit on Agon and move on to the newer model. As far as Tube gear is concerned I only turn on my FM 100 B tuner when I want to listen to it.
Scotty

sbrtoy · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Apr 2008, 09:34 pm »

Most SS gear I have heard warms up in about 15 minutes so it would seem silly to expend the electricity and shorten the life span to save a few minutes. Tubes are expensive so I never leave them on, I have had a few times I forgot to turn off an amp and felt really guilty the next day for using such precious equipment to heat a room...

The newer switching amps could be left on if desired as they only draw about as much current as a small lightbulb and produce no heat at idle, however again it would probably shorten the life of the component.

As far as wear from switching on and off, most quality SS gear has a soft start and almost all tube gear does, so this really eliminates the stress from current rushing in etc.

BrianM · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 11:54 am »

Somewhere along the way the idea of leaving stuff on 24/7 became quasi-conventional wisdom, much like "component or cable X sounds good only after 100 or 200 hours of break-in." Once that's accepted, of course things will sound better if left on, or fully broken in, because psychology becomes the deciding factor. But if you walked into a room and didn't know how long the stereo had been switched on, or how broken in it was, chances are you'd just sit and listen to the music. There've got to be all sorts of uncontrollable factors that influence people's perceptions about these things. I file it all under "stuff not to sweat over." But if you think your rig sounds better left on all the time, great; the potential downside is obvious enough to anybody, so it's just a question of whether that's worth it to you.

groovybassist · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 02:19 pm »

The other thing to consider is the manufacturer's recommendation. Some gear is designed to be left on at all times. Typically gear with power switches on the back of the unit fall into this category. Presumably the manufacturer has a reason to have the unit left on (i.e. parts selected for use in the circuit), but I guess that may just be an assumption vs. actual fact. I use Naim gear, which has the power switches on the back and is designed to be left on all the time (which is what I do). I haven't tried listening to it both ways, so I can't comment on the difference. I'm pretty environmentally aware, so I make every effort to offset my use of extra electricity by being very eco-conscious in other areas of my life.

-Mike

nathanm · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 05:34 pm »

While it's true that I think global warming is conspiracy created by three-headed aliens from the Sagitarius Dwarf Galaxy as a practical joke on us earthlings, I think it only makes sense to turn off any electronics you aren't actively using whenever possible. You don't have to be fillthy hippie to see that needless energy consumption is a bad thing. For instance, I always make sure to turn off the refridgerator whenever I'm done getting food out of it. Sure this makes the milk taste a little sour, but I think its a small price to pay for saving our mother earth from the imminent, environmental holocaust set to ravage our pathetic lives any day now. Wait for it… It's coming… Don't go just yet… Environmental apocalypse, here it comes… Get ready for it… Save Mother Earth befo—aww shit we're all dead! Thanks a lot Naim users!

sbrtoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 06:24 pm »

Maybe if everyone in LA started switching off their Krell monos they wouldn't have so many brownouts this summer....

groovybassist · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 06:29 pm »

NathanM:

Perhaps your contribution to saving the planet should be to shut off your computer. Just a thought.

-Mike

Martyn · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 06:53 pm »

In the cooling season, leaving your heat-generating gear turned on will increase your cooling load and thus your energy consumption. This means that you run the risk of having your neighbours rat on you to the Green Police if you don't turn off your gear.

In the heating season, the extra heat will reduce your space-heating load (assuming that you run your gear in a heated space). Now it's a question of which energy source is more damaging to the environment - electricity or whatever fuels your heating system. If you're burning oil in a 20 year-old furnace but getting your electricity from a hydro dam, you have a pretty good reason for buying a pair of big Class A monoblocks (especially if you can cook your breakfast on them)!

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: groovybassist on 14 Apr 2008, 06:29 pm

NathanM:

Perhaps your contribution to saving the planet should be to shut off your computer. Just a thought.

-Mike

It is off right now, actually.

doug s. · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 02:08 am »

my s/s gear is always on; i turn on my tubed gear when i need it. except for the weekends, then the rig stays on from friday when i get home to monday am when i am off to work. i leave the entire rig on all nite, every nite, as i sleep w/fm playing. as far as wear, my tubed preamp has four 6922's in it, & they've logged at least 40k hours, & still sound fine. only recently, i have thought of swapping them out w/one of a few sets of wintage amperex tubes i have. not that there's anything wrong w/the tubes still in there - it's curiosity more than anything else. my preamp has a soft-start feature, fwiw. re: my tube amps, i swap them in & out too much for any one to have that kind of hours. (but the almarro a205a mkll may be getting close to 10k hours; it's definitely >5k hours.) one of them has a "warm" switch, that allows it to be kept on 24/7, but i only use it when i step out on the weekend.

ymmv,

doug s.

timind · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 02:22 am »

Turn it off you selfish bastards.
Did I say that out loud? aa

lazydays · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 05:00 am »

Quote from: timind on 15 Apr 2008, 02:22 am

Turn it off you selfish bastards.
Did I say that out loud? aa

Depends on how big the power supply is. My Odyssey amps have 360K in them, and it takes a long while to charge them. When you turn the power to the amps off, the caps start a discharge in about thirty to forty minutes. The way I have it figured it takes somewhere around 36 hours to fully charge them. So I'll just donate the $3.00 a month to Duke Energy to be able to listen to them anytime I want to.
gary

Airborn · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 05:30 am »

I was waiting for someone with Odyssey amps to chime in here! I have a Khartago I leave on all the time b/c that's what the manual says and what Klaus recommends. It does sound better after being on for a long time, but I'm not sure why? It seems intuitive that this will shorten the life of the amp, but maybe not if the manufacturer recommends it.

K.C. · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 05:51 am »

I run a vintage Neve console in the recording studio along with various tube and solid state outboard preamps. The Neve has 48 channels of class A/B pres and draws 20 amps when idle. It takes a good hour for it to sound like it should, so that's what we give it, an hour before we track. The tube pres are Manley, Groove Tubes, Universal Audio, Vac Rac and others, some vintage some brand new. Again, we give them an hour before tracking.

When we record a project we're laying down tracks and then punching in to fix or augment day or weeks later. If the sound doesn't match we're screwed. After 30 years I have found not one pre that doesn't sound good after an hour and sound the same 8 or 10 hours later.

At home I turn on the RM-9 or the Quicksilvers about 15 minutes before playing anything. I then play a 'background' CD to put some more current through the system and start to really listen on the second CD, about an hour later. I'm frequently listening to 24/96 music I recorded. An hour has always been plenty of time to enjoy the true sound of my amps.

Haoleb · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 05:52 am »

I leave my Khartago mono's on all the time also. Weither they sound better when left on or not I couldnt say because i really havent bothered to try and listen for any differences. I just listen to music on my system these days. Not weither the transistors being warmed up or the capacitors banks being charged affects anything. Also It would be a big PITA to turn them off since the switches are on the back and I do use them everyday for not only music but audio for the tv so turning them off every night seems useless. I also keep my Tempest preamp on all the time. Figure eh. Why not.

Yeah, Its wasting power but it just seems pretty dump to be constatly switching my system on and off when im not using it. Plus, 20 year warranty with odyssey

mjosef · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 06:13 am »

Anything tubes I turn off when not using. SS stuff...it depends on the idle draw. My current pre draws less than .1A, so it stays on 24/7. Anything SS that draws more than .5A I switch off when I leave the apt. Right now my amp and pre draws .4A idle, so this combo stays on. have other amps that draw up to 1.2A at idle, no way am I leaving those on when I am not home.
My monthly electric consumption is around 350KW. Higher in the summer months.
So whats the "right thing"?

I try to conserve as much as I can. I am only responsible for me.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 01:04 pm »

I run a Class A tube amp (3-5 wpc) and turn it on when I want to listen. During the summer months, most of the listening is background, with my kids running around etc, so the warm up phase is irrelevant. So too the winter months, come to think of it. I only leave the gear on if I am going to come back down to the basement for some serious listening after their bedtime, else I shut it all down.

The amp is a salvaged console Magnavox piece, and I am sure that the cycling is hard on the tubes, but for the $$ I spent on them, I am fine with that.

The SB3 is turned "off" after listening, and is my only source, but as we all know it is still drawing power to run the clock etc. Not much I assume.

I do notice that the cold tube amp doesn't sound as good as when it is warm, but for 90% of my time, it gets plenty of warm up with my kids around, and when they are happy, I am happy etc.

My sub amp is auto sensing, so it comes on when music is playing, and goes off later when it stops.

Pretty simple.

When I used to own a class A Sugen SS piece, I did leave it on all the time, as it sounded way better warm than cold, and I had no little hands to worry about then!