Has anyone here used Rives Audio?

audioferret · « **on:** 3 Apr 2008, 12:46 pm »

I am about to return to the states from overseas and I think I have saved enough to splurge on the Rives Audio Level II treatment. We just bought a house and there is a dedicated Theater room built into the finished basement.

I was wondering what folks' experiences were working with the company and what I should keep in mind when working with them. How long will the design process take? I have the second half of July and the entire month of August scheduled for leave and hope they would be able to have it done by then.

Any tips/suggestions/advice before I take the plunge?

woodsyi · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 01:45 pm »

I am curious. Does the $2700 include the treatments or is it just a consulting fee?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 07:10 pm »

The only thing I can afford from Rives is their test CDs.

Sorry, I can't tell you much about their design services.

Carl V · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 07:59 pm »

At that price/fee it would not include any treatments.

Typically at that fee...it's simple measurements, on site
follow up analysis with recommendations for treatment & possible
design ideas. After you place the Treatments or alter the room
a follow up measurement.

I have had two acquaintances use Rives...one was pleased one
was so-so pleased. The latter has elected to use the services
of another design team for his next room.

I'd start by doing as much 'leg work' as I could on my own.
Decide what your objectives are & how much resources you
are wiling to expend.

The process can be long or reasonably long.

Good luck & congratulations.

audioferret · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 08:28 pm »

One thing I am looking at is the value of the house. I am going to do a completely built-in solution in that I have a wood-shop and can easily build the project myself while I refinish the rest of the basement. I would like to include "Rives Audio Designed" in the description of the room. I am setting up everything else to as close to THX specifications as I can. I don't think I will be able to claim it meets THX specs, but I is going to be close.

woodsyi · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 08:37 pm »

Quote from: Carl V on 3 Apr 2008, 07:59 pm

At that price/fee it would not include any treatments.

Typically at that fee...it's simple measurements, on site
follow up analysis with recommendations for treatment & possible
design ideas. After you place the Treatments or alter the room
a follow up measurement.

I have had two acquaintances use Rives...one was pleased one
was so-so pleased. The latter has elected to use the services
of another design team for his next room.

I'd start by doing as much 'leg work' as I could on my own.
Decide what your objectives are & how much resources you
are wiling to expend.

The process can be long or reasonably long.

Good luck & congratulations.

I am sure Rives is good and their service has a market. I am also sure that I am not in that demographic. I am too much of a miser to pay that much for an intangible service. So I went out and learned me a real time room analyzing software with a calibrated measuring mike. I bought books on room acoustics and studio building. And read them. I also pestered everyone here with questions. Then I bought traps and installed them myself. I may not have achieved Rives result but I am good with what I got. Good luck with your project.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Apr 2008, 09:27 pm »

I own the Rives PARC and couldn't live without it.

audioferret · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Apr 2008, 06:35 pm »

I have also read a ton on acoustics and traps. I have already built my own corners and first reflections using 703. The results were great, but I wonder how good I can get it. It is easy to over-do the treatment and I would rather execute a comprehensive approach instead of one tweak at a time. I have some engineering in my background and understand the importance of good design. I also know the value of a good designer. Rives seems pretty good, so I think I will try them out. I will keep a log here to keep you all informed.

JP78 · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Apr 2008, 05:36 pm »

the company i work for has done 10+ rives rooms (mostly level three, a couple level two) in the two years i've been here. i think largely with rives the general example is you get out of it what you put into it...a lot of enthusiasm and attention to detail on the owner's part really result in spectacular results for a reasonable amount of money.

i'd also recommend brian pape of gik acoustics...very knowledgable man. we regularly use gik products in theater rooms that we design (with or without rives).

good luck with your plans,

TONEPUB · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Apr 2008, 07:47 pm »

I'd highly suggest the guys at GIK...

I had a terrible run in with mr. rives a couple of years ago.
He wouldn't even answer the most basic questions unless I wrote
him a check for 5000 dollars and then got his "approval" to proceed
with the program.

I sat down with George Cardas for five minutes and he said,
"Sketch out your room for me and tell me where your stuff is"

He looked at the drawing and said,"put bass traps here, here
and here, put some panels here, here and here and you'll be
90% of the way there"

I talked to Glenn at GIK an hour later and he basically told
me the same thing.

I've had the GIK stuff ever since and it's great. When I
had my room professionally measured last fall the guy
told me my room was great and that I had no response glitches
anywhere.

I'm sure Rives does a good job for their big bucks customers,
but I'd try the GIK people first. I think you can get a lot more
bang for the buck.

saisunil · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Apr 2008, 09:50 pm »

To chime in with Tonepub.

I did the same thing with Ethan and got real traps.
He helped me throughout the install.

If money is no object and or if your room is odd sized - Rives audio - I imagine will take you further.

In a nutshell - what I learnt was - need to have bass traps in all four corner and some panels (traps) at the first reflection points on the side walls. After that you put more traps every where - ceiling / walls etc.

I think Level 2 or Level consulting would be of value from Rives.

Cheers

Ethan Winer · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Apr 2008, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: saisunil on 7 Apr 2008, 09:50 pm

I did the same thing with Ethan and got real traps.
He helped me throughout the install.

Thanks for the mention. I do this all the time for customers for free as part of the sale of RealTraps products. Paying an independent pro is more useful when you're concerned about sound isolation. That's more difficult than treating a room acoustically, and every room requires a different isolation strategy. Versus treatment goals which are mostly the same for all rooms.

--Ethan

Mike Dzurko · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 03:46 pm »

Two years ago we wanted to treat our room at RMAF . . . now I have a storeroom full of treatments at my disposal, but didn't want to have to ship. I gave Bryan a call, talked to Glenn, and the deed got done. We listened with and without the treatments, and it wasn't even close . . . . and this was under show conditions, quick setup, etc. Having worked with many different vendors and treatments over the last 30+ years I was very impressed. In fact we decided to do the same for the next RMAF. And now, in the final stages of building our new lab/listening room, GIK will be the treatments for sure. Both these guys know their stuff well, the products are great, and the pricing is very fair. Also, they can help with the design if you need it. I highly recommend GIK and Bryan and Glenn to any of my customers who want to build a room or improve their existing rooms. . .

rockadanny · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 05:28 pm »

Hello AudioFerret. I see you're a DIY kinda guy, but if you ever do wish to purchase ready made stuff I can vouch for GIK as well. I work only a few miles from Glenn's office. Great guys, he and Bryan. Lots of assistance. And well built products at excellent prices.

audioferret · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 06:07 pm »

All,

I guess I am really interested in finding out just how good the room can get. If I put in the treatments myself without a proper design, I am concerned that it may sound good, but not as good as it could be. One thing I have seen again and again in my short time in this hobby is that there is a difference between "better" and different". Many times, what may have sounded "better" in one equipment swap over another is really just a matter of how different it was.

The advantage I see in Rives is the in-house measurements (Level II). My main intent is to turn the room into a semi-permanent install. The room was built in the basement with the intent to be a HT, but I don't think the builder had any idea what to do besides how big he wanted it to be. I expect to turn the house over in a few years (2-3) and I would like to list "Professionally Designed" in the sales pitch for the home theater. This is going to be a bit more than simple room treatment - of which I have already done to great effect (Admittedly only using simple 703 panels in wooden frames). When people walk in the room, I want their jaws to drop. I want the husband to offer his soul to his wife so they can buy the house and I want her to thank him for such a generous offer (secretly wanting the room herself).

I think Ethan hit on what I am trying to do. This room is going to need isolation, and lots of it - I think. This project will probably require me to tear down the drywall and re-do the basement finishing. I will need to install a few doors and then treat the room to get the best result possible. The treatment designs that Rives offers allows me to build aestheticaly(sp?) pleasing treatments that I can leave in as a sales feature. Again, I can build furniture-quality structures, I just need a plan.

meby · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 06:36 pm »

I know a local very high end dealer in Chicago uses this company and he has outstanding rooms:
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/index.html

woodsyi · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 06:51 pm »

Audioferret,

I am sure Rives will give you a good service and enjoy the the finished room. Don't, however, expect to recoup your money when you sell your house. From what I have seen, heard and experienced, a dedicated HT room doesn't add much to the resale value of a house. In most cases, it's the wives who have the final say in a house purchase. A great kitchen will sell a house more than a great HT room.

TomS · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: audioferret on 10 Apr 2008, 06:07 pm

All,

I guess I am really interested in finding out just how good the room can get. If I put in the treatments myself without a proper design, I am concerned that it may sound good, but not as good as it could be. One thing I have seen again and again in my short time in this hobby is that there is a difference between "better" and different". Many times, what may have sounded "better" in one equipment swap over another is really just a matter of how different it was.

The advantage I see in Rives is the in-house measurements (Level II). My main intent is to turn the room into a semi-permanent install. The room was built in the basement with the intent to be a HT, but I don't think the builder had any idea what to do besides how big he wanted it to be. I expect to turn the house over in a few years (2-3) and I would like to list "Professionally Designed" in the sales pitch for the home theater. This is going to be a bit more than simple room treatment - of which I have already done to great effect (Admittedly only using simple 703 panels in wooden frames). When people walk in the room, I want their jaws to drop. I want the husband to offer his soul to his wife so they can buy the house and I want her to thank him for such a generous offer (secretly wanting the room herself).

I think Ethan hit on what I am trying to do. This room is going to need isolation, and lots of it - I think. This project will probably require me to tear down the drywall and re-do the basement finishing. I will need to install a few doors and then treat the room to get the best result possible. The treatment designs that Rives offers allows me to build aestheticaly(sp?) pleasing treatments that I can leave in as a sales feature. Again, I can build furniture-quality structures, I just need a plan.

Big Red Machine (Pete) has essentially the same thing in terms of combining some isolation and various room treatments DIY, supported by the community, with great results. Some of these features would be almost expected in a home like his, so resale may have been a factor for them too. It might be worth a chat to see how much pain there was in the process without a "pro" design to fall back on.

Tom

bpape · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Apr 2008, 07:19 pm »

IMO, you're on the right track with your thinking. You can do the inside of the room all you want but if it's not isolated properly, you're fighting things that you shouldn't have to. Being willing to start from scratch down to the studs is the right way to go. Not only does this let you get the iso right, but, it also allows you to build in some of the treaments, look for ways to avoid particularly bad combinations of room dimensions, plan listening positions properly in relation to room dimensions and speaker locations, etc. Also, it lets you look at proper electrical planning.

Bryan

rockadanny · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Apr 2008, 02:13 pm »

AudioFerret - Since you're starting from scratch you may want to check this out and keep it in mind for reference - a slightly different speaker placement guide ...

http://www.tempoelectric.com/speaker_placement.htm