[Levi]

Hi everyone,

I am not sure if this has been discussed before.  Are the 14B-ST the same as 14B-SST?

Thank you.

[James Tanner]

Hi everyone,

I am not sure if this has been discussed before.  Are the 14B-ST the same as 14B-SST?

Thank you.

Hi There,

The original design of the SST versions of the amps was introduced with the 14B ST. Based on the immediate success in the market we decided to change all of the ST amplifiers over to these new SST designs.

At that point we called all the new amplifiers SST and renamed the 14B ST to 14B SST. We also changed the power supply at that point as well so the SST version of the 14B has a different power supply than the ST version.

A few months ago we also changed the output section of the 14B SST and added new inductors. 14B SST's with Serial Number last three digits 515  or above have the new Inductors. There is a modification for the 14B SST to add the new inductors if you wish- contact Mike Pickett at Bryston.

james

[Levi]

Thanks James. 

I would assume that 14B-ST and 14B-SST are the same based on time frame?  Usually the older models with older serials range?

[James Tanner]

Thanks James. 

I would assume that 14B-ST and 14B-SST are the same based on time frame?  Usually the older models with older serials range?

Hi Levi,

Sorry I am not understanding the question?

james

[Levi]

My understanding is that there is at one point 14B-ST and 14B-SST are the same?!?  What year or time frame is this?

[Phil A]

My understanding is that there is at one point 14B-ST and 14B-SST are the same?!?  What year or time frame is this?

James indicated this:  "We also changed the power supply at that point as well so the SST version of the 14B has a different power supply than the ST version." I would therefore assume that at no time were the ST and SST versions the same.

[James Tanner]

My understanding is that there is at one point 14B-ST and 14B-SST are the same?!?  What year or time frame is this?

I will check but I think there were a few ST's with the ST logo on the front power switch which were in fact SST's. You can tell though because the checkout sheet that comes with the amp will have SST on it.

james

[Beatles]

Stereophile reviewed a Bryston 14B they called an SST with serial number 140129 that had the ST switch. I have been told if your unit measures above 600 watts on the test sheet it's in effect an SST sans the 515 upgrade. I was also told very few of the 500 watt ones made it into the wild but that quite a few SSTs with ST switches are out there.

[Levi]

They produced lots of 14B-ST and SSTs.  Hopefully, James can clarify.

Thx,
Levi

[Beatles]

The Stereophile review was number 129 and had the ST switch. They called it an SST. One should safely assume if you test out above 600 watts and have a number above 129 then you have the SST minus the change at 515. Nonetheless they all have the SST Motorola transistors.
 If Stereophile has misrepresented the product it should be corrected.
 There haven't been as many produced as you might think judging by serial numbers.

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

OK I got this sorted out.

The original 14B ST had serial numbers starting with 140001.  The new 14B SST's had serial numbers starting at 000001.

When we switched to the SST's we increased very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating. Other than cosmetics this was the only change.

So in reality the 14B ST has always been an SST design and other than the small power supply change are identical.

james

[Beatles]

Thanks James just as I had suspected. So ST owners you have an SST.

[mr_bill]

Hi All,

OK I got this sorted out.

The original 14B ST had serial numbers starting with 140001.  The new 14B SST's had serial numbers starting at 000001.

When we switched to the SST's we increased very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating. Other than cosmetics this was the only change.

So in reality the 14B ST has always been an SST design and other than the small power supply change are identical.

james

And there was a change in the ouput somethings I read in that Swedish review in the SST line?

[Levi]

I think that increased power supply size is very important. 

Thanks James for the clarification.

Levi

[Beatles]

Maybe if you're running above 600 watts 

"very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating"


I don't think it's important at all. Notice the "very slightly"? I have a marked SST and a ST and the test sheets are basically identical and we tried in vain to hear any difference and sorry to tell you there weren't any. It's just one GREAT amp.

"other than the SMALL power supply change are identical"

[Phil A]

Hi All,

OK I got this sorted out.

The original 14B ST had serial numbers starting with 140001.  The new 14B SST's had serial numbers starting at 000001.

When we switched to the SST's we increased very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating. Other than cosmetics this was the only change.

So in reality the 14B ST has always been an SST design and other than the small power supply change are identical.

james

And there was a change in the ouput somethings I read in that Swedish review in the SST line?

Yes - I had it done as mine was an earlier 14BSST serial no. - something like serial nos. prior to 505 from memory - do a search you'll find the details.

[mv038856]

Hi All,

OK I got this sorted out.

The original 14B ST had serial numbers starting with 140001.  The new 14B SST's had serial numbers starting at 000001.

When we switched to the SST's we increased very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating. Other than cosmetics this was the only change.

So in reality the 14B ST has always been an SST design and other than the small power supply change are identical.

james

James,

reading your post above, I am getting a little angry about my 14B (S)ST relabelling issue again! 

I get the feeling that I am being told anything just to be calmed down.
The stories, however, insult my intelligence.
The first story was that "it's a SST because the front panel switch, the warranty card and the check out sheet say so", while the back clearly reads 14B ST, the serial has the 14B ST format of 14xxxx, the check out sheet obviously had been manipulated and on top of that, I found out that my amp was the 14B that had been tested at several German audio magazines where at least one photo in a review clearly shows my serial and at that point it still was ST with a ST front panel switch. This clearly shows the amp has been relabelled. Then Sun Audio told me that they modified the amp into an SST. However, since this would have meant exchanging the transformers, as you explained above, this surely wasn't feasible at that time.

What really bothers me is that Bryston has its part in the cover up activities. Instead of admitting that something has gone wrong and fixing it, the issue is being played down.
No matter how small the difference in performance might be, it is not o.k. to mislead customers about the true identity of an (S)ST amp! That definitely is not the way I want to be treated as a customer! 

Whom should I trust regarding anything concerning this amp, considering what happened so far??? 

Dissapointedly

Markus

[James Tanner]

Hi All,

OK I got this sorted out.

The original 14B ST had serial numbers starting with 140001.  The new 14B SST's had serial numbers starting at 000001.

When we switched to the SST's we increased very slightly the size of the transformers to allow more headroom above the current 600 watt rating. Other than cosmetics this was the only change.

So in reality the 14B ST has always been an SST design and other than the small power supply change are identical.

james

James,

reading your post above, I am getting a little angry about my 14B (S)ST relabelling issue again! 

I get the feeling that I am being told anything just to be calmed down.
The stories, however, insult my intelligence.
The first story was that "it's a SST because the front panel switch, the warranty card and the check out sheet say so", while the back clearly reads 14B ST, the serial has the 14B ST format of 14xxxx, the check out sheet obviously had been manipulated and on top of that, I found out that my amp was the 14B that had been tested at several German audio magazines where at least one photo in a review clearly shows my serial and at that point it still was ST with a ST front panel switch. This clearly shows the amp has been relabelled. Then Sun Audio told me that they modified the amp into an SST. However, since this would have meant exchanging the transformers, as you explained above, this surely wasn't feasible at that time.

What really bothers me is that Bryston has its part in the cover up activities. Instead of admitting that something has gone wrong and fixing it, the issue is being played down.
No matter how small the difference in performance might be, it is not o.k. to mislead customers about the true identity of an (S)ST amp! That definitely is not the way I want to be treated as a customer! 

Whom should I trust regarding anything concerning this amp, considering what happened so far??? 

Dissapointedly

Markus

Hi Markus,

I am sorry but we had no part in changing or modifying any amplifier. It leaves the factory as is. If the distributor or dealer claims they made a change then I feel you must take up the issue with them to clarify exactly what was done if anything. Bryston has had no part in changing or modifying anything or covering that fact up. Frankly I resent the accusation.

I do not know how much clearer I can make it. The above serial numbers explain the differences and when we made them.

james

[mv038856]

Hi Markus,

I am sorry but we had no part in changing or modifying any amplifier. It leaves the factory as is. If the distributor or dealer claims they made a change then I feel you must take up the issue with them to clarify exactly what was done if anything. Bryston has had no part in changing or modifying anything or covering that fact up. Frankly I resent the accusation.

I do not know how much clearer I can make it. The above serial numbers explain the differences and when we made them.

james

Hi James!

Thanks for your feedback!

The question for me is whether Bryston as the original manufacturer can be indifferent if their official representative relabels their products.

And this is not a name change like the way Sun Audio renamed a BP25 to a BPS25 - where a small change in the power supply (from BP-PSR to MPS-1) didn't justify a name change for Bryston, Canada.
In the 14B ST/14B SST case there is a small difference in the power supply as well and Bryston Canada did rename the slightly improved version with the new transformers. It simply is not o.k. to rename a 14B ST to a 14B SST just because the difference might be small. Even official factory upgrades, which are supposed to get an older version to perform like the most recent one, are labeled as such.

I will contact Sun Audio again to check whether they exchanged the transformers, which I doubt. The were talking about some minor changes they did - not exchanging one of the most vital and expensive components of the amp.

I will let you know how this issue develops...

Cheers!

Markus

[KeithA]

The first story was that "it's a SST because the front panel switch, the warranty card and the check out sheet say so", while the back clearly reads 14B ST, the serial has the 14B ST format of 14xxxx, the check out sheet obviously had been manipulated and on top of that, I found out that my amp was the 14B that had been tested at several German audio magazines where at least one photo in a review clearly shows my serial and at that point it still was ST with a ST front panel switch. This clearly shows the amp has been relabelled. Then Sun Audio told me that they modified the amp into an SST. However, since this would have meant exchanging the transformers, as you explained above, this surely wasn't feasible at that time.

Markus

I doubt very much if you dealer/distributor would have ever known that there was a slight transformer difference between ST & SST. As I read the details of your amp, I wonder.........Your amp appears to have been passed around to several magazines for review with an ST faceplate. What's the chance that amp took a few nicks and scratches on the faceplate in it's travels and the dealer/distributor simply acquired and installed a new SST faceplate on the amp for resale? Maybe they just installed a new faceplate to have the SST on the front? So, maybe their idea of the "upgrade to SST" is the cosmetic upgrade of the faceplate (if I assume correctly your amp now has an SST power switch)?

And this is not a name change like the way Sun Audio renamed a BP25 to a BPS25 - where a small change in the power supply (from BP-PSR to MPS-1) didn't justify a name change for Bryston, Canada.
In the 14B ST/14B SST case there is a small difference in the power supply as well and Bryston Canada did rename the slightly improved version with the new transformers. It simply is not o.k. to rename a 14B ST to a 14B SST just because the difference might be small. Even official factory upgrades, which are supposed to get an older version to perform like the most recent one, are labeled as such.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but the ST vs SST designation is really Bryston's name change to distinguish between the ST versions of amps from the new SST versions based primarily on the results of having the Motorola output devices. That was the SIGNIFICANT change that warranted the name change and I'm sure not the power supply tweak that later followed. I have a 6BST (with the Motoroal output devices) that is likely rated at 250WPC (measures about 303 WPC on the test sheet). I'm sure an actual 6BSST will likely measure out with a little more headromm and maybe even measure upwards of 350WPC on the test sheet if there has been a slight power supply change.

So, do I consider my 6BST as an SST design. You bet (because it is and the output devices say so). Also, as far as tweaks to specifications of a products, most manufacturers will always say that "sprecifications are subject to change without notice" and to me a change in the power supply is simply that (especially since it likely has minimal impact, if at all) on the day to day performance of the amp. The change in the output devices, a different story. That change fundamentally changed the sound of the ST line for the better. Hence, IMHO, the reason for the SST designation.

The 28BSST appears to have some design tweaks that take the SST design even a little further

Keith