[James Tanner]

HI,

Correct the SST designation was a result of being able to use the new (square) output devices from Motorola. The 6B ST and the 14B ST ALWAYS used these devices and therefore we considered them the first of the SST Series.  This was the significant change in our designs and all else were minor tweaks.

So other than the small power supply change in 14B SST (there was never a change in the 6B ST as far as I am aware) the 14B ST is identical to the 14SST.

I agree that if Markus was told by the dealer or distributor that he was buying a modified ST (to SST) and in fact it was an ST is not acceptable and I will make it right.

james

[KeithA]

So other than the small power supply change in 14B SST (there was never a change in the 6B ST as far as I am aware) the 14B ST is identical to the 14SST.

Not that it matters, but just figured there was something from a tweak perspective (output wise, that is) on all SSTs shortly after the introduction of the 6BST & 14BST. I have seen pictures of test sheets of 4BSSTs (300 WPC stated) for sale that were clocked at up to 360WPC to 380WPC. As well, I found this quote on another forum...

The new SST's are nice improvements over the very good ST series. The 4BSST packs a lot of punch, rated at 300 watts/channel at 8 ohms, or 500 into 4 ohms. The 4BSST's I have tested out at 383 and 385 watts per channel into 8 ohms according to their check-out sheets from Bryston.

So, I figured a 6BSST would roughly measure the same as the 4BSST. Then I found this quote on another forum...

I've got a 6BSST and a pair of 4BSST's in my HT. There's no other amp that I want. I had a 5BST and a pair of 3BST's before that. I've been very pleased with Bryston, the service and warranty are unmatched, and they sound very good to me. As was previously mentioned, Bryston's are typically about 20% underrated in terms of what they actually output. For example the 6BSST and 4BSST's are rated at 300 watts/channel into 8 ohms but the check out sheets that accompany my amps indicate that they all output around 365-370 watts per channel.

Again, not that it really matters, but just curious as to why the 6BSST outputs more (60 to 70 WPC) than my 6BST at clipping (assuming the posts above from the other forum is correct) if there has been no slight tweak somehow?

Again, just curious

Keith

[James Tanner]

Hi Keith,

Not sure on that - I will ask engineering.

james

[KeithA]

Thanks

It may be just a bias thing as the newer output devices are able to handle more power, or something like that.

Keith

[James Tanner]

Thanks

It may be just a bias thing as the newer output devices are able to handle more power, or something like that.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Were those tests done in Europe because the ouput power would be sligtly more at 240 volts.

james

[mv038856]

Markus

I doubt very much if you dealer/distributor would have ever known that there was a slight transformer difference between ST & SST. As I read the details of your amp, I wonder.........Your amp appears to have been passed around to several magazines for review with an ST faceplate. What's the chance that amp took a few nicks and scratches on the faceplate in it's travels and the dealer/distributor simply acquired and installed a new SST faceplate on the amp for resale? Maybe they just installed a new faceplate to have the SST on the front? So, maybe their idea of the "upgrade to SST" is the cosmetic upgrade of the faceplate (if I assume correctly your amp now has an SST power switch)?

Keith,

it is very honorable of you to assume the best in people. The way the paperwork for my amp has been fixed clearly indicates that it was not accidentally relabelled when getting a new faceplate. The checkout sheet, e.g. is not in the letter format (like the original Bryston document). It is a DIN A4 copy of the original. The amplifier type "14B SST" is written in a different hand writing than all the other numbers on that sheet. Sun Audio isn't selling that many 14B SSTs that they could mix up their special review unit.

It simply is not o.k. to relabel an elder version even if it is very very very close to the newer one. When selling the elder one it would be o.k. to explain that the differences are very small and if the customer wishes it, even put a SST switch on the front panel. But claiming it is an SST through and through if in fact it is not...

Well, lets see how things develop.

Cheers!


Markus

[James Tanner]

Hi Markus,


I may asked this before - what is the serial number of your 14B?

james

[KeithA]

Hi Keith,

Were those tests done in Europe because the ouput power would be sligtly more at 240 volts.

james

Not sure...but, maybe the guy was exaggerating. I did find other references to 4BSST test sheets at around the 340WPC to 350WPC range and a reference to 6BSST test sheet in the 325WPC range. That would still put a 6BSST at about 25WPC @ clipping over my 6BST.

Maybe it's normal to have that amount od variance from amp to amp....or maybe it is just a slight bias setting tweak.

Keith

[mv038856]

Hi Markus,


I may asked this before - what is the serial number of your 14B?

james

Hi James,

the serial number of my 14B (S)ST is 140257.

Cheers!

Markus

[James Tanner]

Hi Markus,


I may asked this before - what is the serial number of your 14B?

james

Hi James,

the serial number of my 14B (S)ST is 140257.

Cheers!

Markus

Hi markus,

OK I think we have a positive result here.

Spoke with Sun Audio and got the history of your 14B.

1. It left Bryston as a 14B ST
2. Sun Audio updated the 14B ST to an SST in order to submit it to a reviewer in Germany.
3. Sun Audio installed the new power switch, new transformers and new capacitors to bring the ST up to SST specs - great review I hear!
4. Sun Audio then sold the unit to a dealer in Germany as a demo unit.
5. The dealer sold it to you shortly there after as a demo unit -(sadly I hear he has since gone out of business).
6. I also believe Sun Audio has agreed to add a local/remote switch to your unit at no cost if you wish?
7. Sun Audio has agreed to assist you in any way they can as they are very concerned that this issue gets resolved to your satisfaction.

So it appears that your 14 SST is an upgraded ST and meets all the current performance criteria of the current 14B SST's.

Hope this sets things straight.

james

[Levi]

Wow James.  (I have been lurking) Talk about going above and beyond. 

Hi markus,

OK I think we have a positive result here.

Spoke with Sun Audio and got the history of your 14B.

1. It left Bryston as a 14B ST
2. Sun Audio updated the 14B ST to an SST in order to submit it to a reviewer in Germany.
3. Sun Audio installed the new power switch, new transformers and new capacitors to bring the ST up to SST specs - great review I hear!
4. Sun Audio then sold the unit to a dealer in Germany as a demo unit.
5. The dealer sold it to you shortly there after as a demo unit -(sadly I hear he has since gone out of business).
6. I also believe Sun Audio has agreed to add a local/remote switch to your unit at no cost if you wish?
7. Sun Audio has agreed to assist you in any way they can as they are very concerned that this issue gets resolved to your satisfaction.

So it appears that your 14 SST is an upgraded ST and meets all the current performance criteria of the current 14B SST's.

Hope this sets things straight.

james

[mv038856]

Hi markus,

OK I think we have a positive result here.

Spoke with Sun Audio and got the history of your 14B.

1. It left Bryston as a 14B ST
2. Sun Audio updated the 14B ST to an SST in order to submit it to a reviewer in Germany.
3. Sun Audio installed the new power switch, new transformers and new capacitors to bring the ST up to SST specs - great review I hear!
4. Sun Audio then sold the unit to a dealer in Germany as a demo unit.
5. The dealer sold it to you shortly there after as a demo unit -(sadly I hear he has since gone out of business).
6. I also believe Sun Audio has agreed to add a local/remote switch to your unit at no cost if you wish?
7. Sun Audio has agreed to assist you in any way they can as they are very concerned that this issue gets resolved to your satisfaction.

So it appears that your 14 SST is an upgraded ST and meets all the current performance criteria of the current 14B SST's.

Hope this sets things straight.

james

Hi James!

Thanks for the instant update!

Sorry for being that suspicious of and persevering about the upgrade thing. Sun Audio didn't tell me about a transformer update when I spoke to them. To me, a transformer update being very unusual, it would have been the very first thing that came to my mind when talking about a performed upgrade... 

Would you mind providing me the specs and part numbers of the transformers of a 14B ST and a 14B SST respectively so I can have a look inside my amp and check what actually is in there once I have returned from my business trip this Friday evening? 

Thanks again and cheers!

Markus

[Levi]

Still have doubts eh? 

[mv038856]

Still have doubts eh? 

Levi,

well, yes. I just have experienced too much with this amp. Maybe you can imagine buying a 14B SST, just to discover that the back reads 14B ST - after the seller has told you what a huge difference there was between a ST and a SST amp...  [What a shock!]

Maybe I am wronging Sun Audio here. In fact, I would be "happy" if I did. Of course, in that case, I would have to offer my full apologies to Sun Audio... 

Let's see whether James can provide the data to give me peace of mind. 

Cheers!

Markus

[James Tanner]

Hi markus,

OK I think we have a positive result here.

Spoke with Sun Audio and got the history of your 14B.

1. It left Bryston as a 14B ST
2. Sun Audio updated the 14B ST to an SST in order to submit it to a reviewer in Germany.
3. Sun Audio installed the new power switch, new transformers and new capacitors to bring the ST up to SST specs - great review I hear!
4. Sun Audio then sold the unit to a dealer in Germany as a demo unit.
5. The dealer sold it to you shortly there after as a demo unit -(sadly I hear he has since gone out of business).
6. I also believe Sun Audio has agreed to add a local/remote switch to your unit at no cost if you wish?
7. Sun Audio has agreed to assist you in any way they can as they are very concerned that this issue gets resolved to your satisfaction.

So it appears that your 14 SST is an upgraded ST and meets all the current performance criteria of the current 14B SST's.

Hope this sets things straight.

james

Hi James!

Thanks for the instant update!

Sorry for being that suspicious of and persevering about the upgrade thing. Sun Audio didn't tell me about a transformer update when I spoke to them. To me, a transformer update being very unusual, it would have been the very first thing that came to my mind when talking about a performed upgrade... 

Would you mind providing me the specs and part numbers of the transformers of a 14B ST and a 14B SST respectively so I can have a look inside my amp and check what actually is in there once I have returned from my business trip this Friday evening? 

Thanks again and cheers!

Markus

Hi Markus,

Send me a picture of the transformers in your 14B and I will show it to engineering.

james

[KeithA]

well, yes. I just have experienced too much with this amp. Maybe you can imagine buying a 14B SST, just to discover that the back reads 14B ST - after the seller has told you what a huge difference there was between a ST and a SST amp...   [What a shock!]

By all means, Markus, if you been intentionally misled then that wrong needs to be righted. It appears from what Sun has told James they seem to know what they are talking about as to what constitutes the various models. I'm sure it will all work out. Especially with the help of James.

On your comment I have quoted above, though, at the time the 14B & 6B STs hit the shelves (soon afterwards renamed SST) if a dealer said there was a huge difference between ST & SST amps I would say they were 100% correct. There was a huge difference between the 14BST & 6BST compared to other ST designs current at the time (3B/4B/8B/9B) because the 14B & 6B had the new Motorola output devices (which eventually trickled down to all models and hence the complete SST line). The change in performance was enough to warrant the name change.

If, however, a dealer told you at the time there was a HUGE difference between a 14BST and a 14BSST......well, IMHO, that dealer is just wrong.

Anyway, hopefully everything Sun said they did.....they did

Cheers

Keith

[Levi]

I understand and I would probably do the same thing.  ...with all the confusion, I hope you have a 14B-SST. 

Levi

 

Still have doubts eh? 

Levi,

well, yes. I just have experienced too much with this amp. Maybe you can imagine buying a 14B SST, just to discover that the back reads 14B ST - after the seller has told you what a huge difference there was between a ST and a SST amp...  [What a shock!]

Maybe I am wronging Sun Audio here. In fact, I would be "happy" if I did. Of course, in that case, I would have to offer my full apologies to Sun Audio... 

Let's see whether James can provide the data to give me peace of mind. 

Cheers!

Markus

[mv038856]

Hi Markus,

Send me a picture of the transformers in your 14B and I will show it to engineering.

james

Hi James,

I just sent you the pictures to your bryston.ca address.

Thanks!

Markus

[James Tanner]

Hi Markus,

Send me a picture of the transformers in your 14B and I will show it to engineering.

james

Hi James,

I just sent you the pictures to your bryston.ca address.

Thanks!

Markus

Hi Markus,

Got them - thanks - will let you know.

james

[James Tanner]

Hi Markus,

Send me a picture of the transformers in your 14B and I will show it to engineering.

james

Hi James,

I just sent you the pictures to your bryston.ca address.

Thanks!

Markus

Hi Markus,

Got them - thanks - will let you know.

james

Hi Markus,

Here is the feedback from Engineering - can you see the 'revision number' on the transformers?

James



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Pickett
Sent: April 28, 2008 10:28 AM
To: James Tanner; Brian W Russell
Subject: RE: 14B ST vs. SST

Hi James;

We've used both clear and black tape on all models of transformers over the years. The current SST ones are black, and have been consistently black for some time, so I would guess the ones in Markus's 14B are SST's.  We'd need the revision # from the transformer to tell for sure.

Thanks,

Mike