[Wayne1]

I recently had a conversation with Kyrill about expanding my digital mod.

He had a transformer installed in his SB3 digital output line by Pat at ART.

He was wondering if I could do something about the "noisy" DC input to the digital buffer and DAC chip.

I had a similar conversation with Pat about the same thing.

After thinking about this a bit, I realized I could install another regulator circuit in the external DC power supply and run a separate, discreet DC lead direct to the buffer and DAC chip that would be free from any noise caused by the internal switching power supplies.

I happened to have an ELPAC WM220 on hand that was built for EURO voltages. I went ahead and modded like normal and then installed an additional regulator circuit based on the one I use in the Ultimate PS.

Kyrill had sent me his SB3 to experiment on. I did my standard mod to the internal PS and then removed aLL components after the DAC chip. I installed shielded wires direct to the digital voltage inputs on the respective chips. I also installed some shielding behind the display.

I installed a new DC jack in place of the old headphone jack.

I just fired it up and everything works just fine.

I am going to let it run in my system for a few days. Then it will be sent home to Kyrill. Hopefully he will report on the sound of the unit as it breaks in.

If there are others who are interested in this type of mod, I will be working out final pricing within a week. At first, this mod will be available as a digital only level. An ELPAC WM220 will also be needed to be used. The additional mods should cost about $375-$400 more. That would bring the total cost for the new digital and ELPAC mod to the $750-$800 dollar level. That is not including the SB3 or stock ELPAC WM220.

This mod should also benefit the analog output. I will be trying that out shortly. I will also be working on adapting this mod for users of the Ultimate PS.

[tonyptony]

Great news Wayne. I'm still a fan of SB3 + DAC. Would you consider adding an option to do the transformer mod a la Pat? I had followed that thread very closely, and I had a number of PMs with Pat since we work in similar fields (I just don't have the dexterity to do this kind of work!  ). It's my opinion that if one wanted a transformer mod, his implementation is the right way to do it. Possible?

[Wayne1]

No digital transformers for me.

Pat had to remove one of the crystals to fit the transformer in. That will disable the use of internet radio. Too many people use this feature.

I have spent a little time listening to this modded unit. Quite definitely quieter. Less "digital glare". More "organic"

The internal switchers really throw a lot of "hash" onto all of the power supply lines. This mods removes the "hash"

I have thought about a refinement to the mod that will allow the use of any external PS. I will be working on it later this week.

I might even be able to fit a "Felix" typw filter into the mod somewhere.

[tonyptony]

Oooh, sweet.

I must have missed the part about the crystal getting removed. That's a no-go for me.

[kbuzz3]

mmmmmmmmmm glad i drop shipped a new SB and elpac to wayne this week.....

[jhm731]

No digital transformers for me.

Pat had to remove one of the crystals to fit the transformer in. That will disable the use of internet radio. Too many people use this feature.

I have spent a little time listening to this modded unit. Quite definitely quieter. Less "digital glare". More "organic"

The internal switchers really throw a lot of "hash" onto all of the power supply lines. This mods removes the "hash"

I have thought about a refinement to the mod that will allow the use of any external PS. I will be working on it later this week.

I might even be able to fit a "Felix" typw filter into the mod somewhere.

"No digital transformers for me." 

You obviously don't underststand how the SB2/3 works or how to optimize the digitals oputputs.

The crystal that Pat takes out doesn't effect the use of internet radio.

[Wayne1]

Perhaps you should learn some tact.

AND do some research.

The removal of the 12.28 crystal removes the ability of the SB to decode stations that stream at 24, 32, or 48 khz.

[Sean Adams:Don't do it if you listen to Internet radio - many stations use 32KHz sample rate, which we resample to 48KHz]

My experience with a player that had its 12MHz crystal removed: not only did it not play 48kHz material, but actually if a 48kHz track was played accidentally, the SB output very loud white noise until physically unplugged. Just a note of caution.
Reply With Quote

While the removal of the 12.28 crystal does NOT totally stop the use of all Internet radio, it severely compromises what you can listen to and it COULD send full volume white noise through your system.

I am not going to take the chance of maybe destroying someone's system because they want to listen to NPR news.


This is YOUR last warning about negative posting in MY circle.

Once more and you are out of here.

[audio-heaven]

This is good news I just sent my SB to Wayne for the digital only mod so I am very interested in this new development, however I think I'd rather send my SB back to Wayne later for the (in the works) SB re-box option, then I could hopefully get all these goodies in a single neat tidy and great looking unit.

I want to use my SB as a transport for my loveeerly DAC so I am after the best digital output I can squeeze (sorry bad pun alert ) from my SB.

My question is will this new mod be an option for the re-boxed SB Wayne? I imagine it would be pretty fantastic with quiet internal PSUs running both sections If it is going to be an option I'd better get saving as something like that would be just perfect for my needs aa

Although internet radio isn't an important function for me, if you can keep it fully functional and still achieve very good low jitter performance what's not to like transformer or not? 

[jhm731]

Removing the 12.2880 crystal didn't affect any of the internet stations I listen to, or send full volume white noise through my system.

FYI- SD's CEO posted lower jitter measurements with the 12.2880 crystal lifted. See:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=15882&highlight=sean+jitter+measurements

Good luck with your new mods.

 

[bpape]

My understanding is that removing the crystal will disable reception of some of the lower bitrate streams.  The higher ones will still be available. 

Bryan

[tonyptony]

That's what I thought too. It would be useful if there was a way to know which stations operated at bitrates that would be covered by that crystal (or any of them!).

[jrebman]

Wayne,

Are you saying that it is possible to improve analog output by supplying power directly to the DAC chip, and that it may be possible to do this by means of taking another tap off the existing regulator in the Ultimate Nirvana supply?  In other words, could another set of connectors be added to the SB3 and PSU, and possibly my Summit cable be cut into 2 lengths to bring power directly to the DAC chip for improved analog?

Sorry if I've got this wrong, but if this seems like it might work, it may be something I can afford to do.

-- Jim

[Wayne1]

Jim,

Kinda, sorta, maybe 

The analog output signal should be able to be improved by feeding the digital power input of the DAC chip and the power input of the hex buffer, which interfaces with the clock crystals, from an clean, external 3 volt source.

In your case, the Ultimate PS can be used to feed another regulator circuit that would provide the 3 volts. This would then be fed to the SB through another power connector, very close to the digital circuits. The SB would need to be modded further to accept the external voltage.

This regulator could be installed in the case used for the Ultimate PS and the Summit cable could be "modded" to have two connectors installed on the SB end.

Alternatively, the 3 volt regulator could be housed in a separate box that would be close to the SB. The 5 volt power supply could be plugged into the box. It would pass the 5 volts through it AND have a regulator circuit in it to provide 3 volts for the digital section with another, short cable to plug into the modded SB.

I hope to be working on the outboard regulator circuit today and tomorrow. I don't have a box on hand to put it in, so that will take a little bit to find. Depending on how much one wishes to spend, a Felix type filter could be installed to clean up the DC and to prevent any of the switching PS noise from contaminating the digital PS. This would need a bigger box.

This mod will be used in the Re-box project. In fact, I decided to pursue this mod for improvement to the digital section without having to re-case the SB3. The Re-box will also have a separate clock circuit with it's own power supply. The clock circuit I intend to use is too large to fit in the SB3 case.

Tony,

I know of no listing of what a station is streaming at. I believe that some stream at multiple bitrates depending on your internt connection and if you pay for higher bitrates.

The 12.28 crystal is for 48 khz and it's multiples and derivatives. Some people try to play 96 khz files. Slim Center does allow these files to play but by decimating the file. If you try to play such a 96 khz file without the 12.28 crystal installed, you would get full volume white noise. At one point, I did remove the crystal to lower the jitter. I had many complaints about not being able to receive every internet station available. I offered to re-install the crystal. I do not and will not ever again do any mod that call for disabling that feature.

Within the next week, I also hope to be able to offer a small external box that will increase the gain of the analog modded SB3 AND correct the phase. Roughly $500-550.

[audio-heaven]

This mod will be used in the Re-box project. In fact, I decided to pursue this mod for improvement to the digital section without having to re-case the SB3. The Re-box will also have a separate clock circuit with it's own power supply. The clock circuit I intend to use is too large to fit in the SB3 case.

Thats what I wanted to hear 

Thanks Wayne

[jrebman]

Wayne,

Sounds good.  I like the idea of putting the extra regulator in the ultimate case and having a second connector break out of the DC cable -- seems like less connectors and connections to me.  I ordered some of the Felix boards and components so I can try various combinations to see what works best for which components, and the SB3 PSU is on the list of things to experiment with.

I'm also going to be looking for some lowere current, and hopefully higher inductance CMCs to feed off a larger capacity one for another application, and maybe one of these will also work inline with the DC cable.

-- Jim

[DSK]

...While the removal of the 12.28 crystal does NOT totally stop the use of all Internet radio, it severely compromises what you can listen to and it COULD send full volume white noise through your system. ...

Yes, this happened to me on my Bolder modded SB2 / Deluxe PS. Internet radio is not important to me and I had never even bothered with it until a few months ago. One day I just started flicking between stations and about the third one I selected (can't remember what it was) suddenly sent full volume white noise through the speakers. None of the SB remote buttons would do anything, even the Power button. I took a running dive, flicked off the amp and then powered off the SB. Luckily, I was using a pre-amp at the time and its volume was set at 12 o'clock. Even so, there were some anxious minutes until I powered the system back on and listened for any signs of speaker damage.

[Charles Calkins]

DSK:
 Your almost catastrophic event is why I keep saying for peace of mind "Use a preamp"

                                            Cheers
                                            Charlie

[Robert57]

Wayne, sorry, I'm a bit confused. I was under the impression that your original full mods to the SB2 (and SB3) mods bypassed the stock switcher power supply for the internal DAC for analog output, somehow using instead a linear power rail to the DAC.  Does your full mod Bolder SB2 retain a switching P/S for the internal DAC? Would you mind elaborating a bit on how these NEW digital mods would benefit someone with the original full mods (esp. in the venerable SB2 using the analog output)? 

I love the idea of your new Bolder Buffer reversing the phase. Very nice!

Rob

[Wayne1]

Robert,

There are multiple voltages used internally in the SB. The way the power supply is designed in the stock version, there is a 14 volt DC supply that is taken off of the internal switching supply. The switching supply is used ito generate multiple voltages. Eventually ending up at 55 volts for the display.

The 14 volts is sent over to the analog section. there are more voltage regulators in that section. 9 volts is taken off for the analog op-amp. 5 volts is taken off for the analog section of the DAC chip, etc.

Part of the BOLDER analog and full mod is to disable the 14 volt supply to the analog section and run the 5 volts for the analog portion of the DAC chip from the main DC input.

There are two different regulators supplying 3 volts. Neither of them are derived directly from the switcher, but ALL of the DC internally generated is partially "polluted" by the noise generated by the switching circuit.

Noise on the DC line is very critical in the clock circuit. All of the mods up to now were designed using higher grade parts to dampen the noise generated by the internal switcher. There wasn't enough room to build separate power supplies for each stage. The Ultimate power supply does reduce a lot of the noise generated from the switcher.

Using a separate 3 volt supply derived from the external power supply BEFORE it gets into the SB and running it directly to the digital circuit chips does reduce the chance of the DC line being contaminated by the internal switching circuit. Adding a Felix to the 3 volt line should lower any noise even more.

The SB3 added a separate voltage regulator for the hex buffer/clock circuit. The regulator input is taken from the same lead that supplies the switcher. It is quieter than the SB12 but not by much. Using the external 3 volt supply should make the SB2 and SB2 digital section the same.

[Robert57]

Thanks, Wayne for that helpful explanation. That clears things up a lot.

Rob