DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III

emac · « **Reply #40 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: andy71 on 24 Mar 2008, 02:56 pm

Also, several comments were made about the subtle nature of dacs on sound (including the big shoot out) but the camparisons seem to be to pretty good quality sources like a Rega CD player. Do you think that if the source is a plain old Squeezebox that the benefit of an ourboard DAC like the DAC60 or a PS Audiolink III will still be subtle?

Thanks

What we found from the shootout was the among high quality DACs, differences were present, just subtle in comparison to the Rega. However, if you have a budget CD player or a Squeezebox and add a DAC, there should be a nice improvement. There was in my system when I added my Constantine.

andy71 · « **Reply #41 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 04:42 pm »

Thanks for the responses guys - exactly what I wanted to hear. I'm looking to upgrade the sound of my squeezebox and a denon 5 cd player, so I'g glad to hear a Dac60 or PSAIII will be significant improvements.

markC · « **Reply #42 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 07:54 pm »

Quote from: JohnnyK on 24 Mar 2008, 02:05 pm

Quote from: andy71 on 21 Mar 2008, 11:24 pm
Any word on the comparison b/w the DAC60 and the TADAC?

I sent back the TADAC. The TADAC and the Link III sounded very similar, however the Link III has better bass. Of all the DACs that I have listened to, I like the PS Audio Link III the best. I recently ordered a PS Audio Link III that has been modified by Rick Cullen at Cullen Circuits. Rick was one of the original designers of the PS Audio Link III.

I should be receiving the modified DAC 60 and the modified Link III this week. The comparision should be interesting.

John

What mods will the Dac-60 have? Will you be able to compare it with a stock unit?
I've only done coupling caps and tube swaps with mine, (nice improvement in top end performance), and I'm contemplating going further such as new caps in the power supplies for the tube high voltage,filiments and dac chips.

JohnnyK · « **Reply #43 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 08:21 pm »

The modifications to the DAC60 can be found on the GR Research web site. I will not be comparing the modified DAC60 to a standard DAC60.

Savjac · « **Reply #44 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 02:55 pm »

Wow my first post.
I love my DAC-60 and have no desire to change. I have experimented with some tube rolls and while I like the originals, I think the Yugoslavian IE tubes may add just a touch of life to the overall presentation. May be a little bright for some.
Have been thinking about the upgrade but not sure my system would benefit. I dunno.

I would like to thank Danny for being the wonderful guy he is both on the phone and online.

Thanks

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #45 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 03:36 pm »

Late to the party here, but at one time I had the stock PSA DLIII and loved it. Now I have the Cullen modded stage 4 version and hoopa, wow. But, of course that is piling on and unfair as we are talking stock units here. But if you ever get a chance to hear this modded unit you owe it to yourself to check it out.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #46 on:** 6 Apr 2008, 05:48 pm »

I'm out of my depth here. Please indulge me. Isn't there something to be said for upsampling? I use a Bel Canto DAC 2 with upsampling. Sounds more refined up top than what it replaced. Great space. Anybody know of any comparisons or have an educated point of view? Thanks

regal · « **Reply #47 on:** 12 Apr 2008, 04:21 pm »

The stock DAC-60 is miles ahead of both the Benchmark and especially the PS Audio DLIII. I found the DLIII to be downright offensive in the upper midrange.

One thing that needs pointed out is the modders are going at the DAC-60 all wrong IMO. Adding big chokes on the CRC powersupply will make very little difference due to the mofset regulating voltage afterward.

The issue that needs addressed with the DAC-60 is the high load on the PCM1704. 220 ohms is too much for the I/V and causes a little distortion in complex passages. You can lower it to 50 ohms, but you need to add a 330 uf to 1000 uF cathode bypass capacitor (per channel) to increase the gain of the tube stage. Doing one without the other makes no sense either.

Just listen how wonderful the DAC60 sounds on quieter passages, doing the above mod makes it sound like that all the time.

markC · « **Reply #48 on:** 13 Apr 2008, 07:24 pm »

What about improved quality caps in the crc circuit you speak of? Especially since the 2nd c is downstream of the fets. I was actually thinking of putting polyfilm caps in this location, but that may be foolish overkill. Replacing the coupling caps is absolutely necessary IMO. Difference is not subtle.
Swapping out the 220 R's looks straight forward, but where do you sneak in the bypass caps?

JohnnyK · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 05:52 pm »

Well, I have finished my comparison of the modified DAC-60 and the Cullen Circuits modified PsAudio III. IMHO, they both sounded very similar. However, the PsAudio sounded less distorted in the midrange. This was very obvious when listening to vocals.

Keep in mind, that the overall sound of any DAC is probably system dependant. WHat sounds good in my system may not sound good in a different system.

low.pfile · « **Reply #50 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 06:24 pm »

Quote from: JohnnyK on 14 Apr 2008, 05:52 pm

Well, I have finished my comparison of the modified DAC-60 and the Cullen Circuits modified PsAudio III. IMHO, they both sounded very similar. However, the PsAudio sounded less distorted in the midrange. This was very obvious when listening to vocals.

Keep in mind, that the overall sound of any DAC is probably system dependant. WHat sounds good in my system may not sound good in a different system.

Thanks for the update Johnny. Agree that most things are system dependent.
Want to share what makes up your system(s), so that we put your comments in context? grazie, ed

JohnnyK · « **Reply #51 on:** 14 Apr 2008, 08:10 pm »

Following is my audio setup:

Ayre V-3 power amp
Aragon StageOne pre/pro
Sony 222ES Sacd/CD player
MBOW/3 way speakers designed by Dennis Murphy

JohnnyK · « **Reply #52 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 02:24 am »

I would like to add that I think that the DAC60 is a tremendous value. Keep in mind that the modified PsAudio DAC is twice the price of the modified DAC60. I would have kept the DAC60 if I hadn't heard the modified PsAudio DAC.

low.pfile · « **Reply #53 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 03:14 am »

cool. thanks for the posts johnny. I have some DAC comparisons to do myself. Wavelength Brick vs Monarchy DACs. waiting for other bits of my system to come in.

regal · « **Reply #54 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 02:32 pm »

Quote from: markC on 13 Apr 2008, 07:24 pm

What about improved quality caps in the crc circuit you speak of? Especially since the 2nd c is downstream of the fets. I was actually thinking of putting polyfilm caps in this location, but that may be foolish overkill. Replacing the coupling caps is absolutely necessary IMO. Difference is not subtle.
Swapping out the 220 R's looks straight forward, but where do you sneak in the bypass caps?

I have misplaced my Dac-50 circuit diagram (95% the same as DAC-60.) But I am modifying another for my brother this weekend. I'll get everyone
a list and photo's. This mod is a level above the Sonicrafts to my ears. There is another person on this forum that should get credit
as it was his original idea (along with Jim Hagerman.)

Here are the changes:

The trick is the cathode by-pass caps (c1) almost doubles the gain which alows you to lower the I/V resistor. With pasive I/V lower resistance
sounds a lot better. The 220 ohm is way too much. The circuit above goes another step better in replacing the filter entirely with a smoother sound and higher quality inductors. You also want to use the thick film resistors, I can give my digikey part #'s if anyone is interested.

JoshK · « **Reply #55 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 02:56 pm »

How much current is going through R2? I.e. what's the voltage across it (the bias voltage for the valve)?

I bet the whole R||C can be replaced with an LED (red most likely) which has its benefits over large caps in the cathode circuit.

regal · « **Reply #56 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 03:11 pm »

Great idea, I'll measure this weekend.

markC · « **Reply #57 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 03:23 pm »

Regal, the parts list and photos would be much appreciated. Do you also get the higher quality inductors from Digi?

regal · « **Reply #58 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 03:25 pm »

yes the inductors are from Digikey, they are the same as used in the HagDAC. I will work on documenting this weekend.

biglefty · « **Reply #59 on:** 15 Apr 2008, 04:37 pm »

This isn't on your list, but I bought a Beresford TC 7510 on the internet and it sounds great. My friend has a Benchmark and went out and bought a Beresford after he heard it on my system. He plugged it into his system and thought the Beresford was better than the Benchmark. The best part about the Beresford is the cost $199. I don't know how it delivers such good sound at that price but it does. FWIW.