DAC60 vs. Benchmark vs. PS Audio Link III

low.pfile · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 08:13 pm »

Thanks for the write up on the DACs shoot out.

comparing that many DACs in one sitting seems daunting. How did you select which DAC was used in each round or was it random?

BTW What is a "G2G" ?

Martyn · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 08:28 pm »

Laserman, that's a lot of work!

Just one question: did the six reviewers record their scores in confidence (i.e. like a secret ballot) prior to any discussion of the merits of the given DAC, or did the discussion come first?

mfsoa · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 08:53 pm »

Get2gether

emac · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 09:13 pm »

Quote from: low.pfile on 4 Mar 2008, 08:13 pm

Thanks for the write up on the DACs shoot out.

comparing that many DACs in one sitting seems daunting. How did you select which DAC was used in each round or was it random?

BTW What is a "G2G" ?

The Constantine and SuperPro 707 were in the 2nd round because Lou didn't have them available to set up before hand. The Constantine is mine, and the 707 was sent to me for the shootout and then to be modded. You'd have to ask Lou as to why he left the City Pulse DACs to the 2nd round.

And we recorded our scores as we were listening to the DACs then talked about them afterwards. So, there shouldn't be much influence on the scoring. The only time(s) we gave up was when there basically was no difference between the Rega and the DAC.

low.pfile · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 09:49 pm »

Is the Control DAC (The Rega Jupiter CDP internal DAC) typical of CD players or above average? (I'd guess not typical OfftheShelf Burr Brown). It would be good to know that since it was the Shootout "Control" DAC.

Rega DAC Details here:
http://www.rega.co.uk/html/jupiter.htm#

I am curious as I am still learning about the various DAC approaches....trying to decipher all the nuances of each and the associated chips, circuits, etc.

laserman · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 09:53 pm »

The reason for choosing DACs for round 1 and round 2 started by chance (what I had on hand verses what others were bringing). Then I realized I had all the expensive units on hand so it came down to price point. Round 1 contenders ranged in price from $700-$1000. Round 2 contenders were all under $500 expect the repeat of the BC 2 (all participants knew it was back in the rotation but not its slot wasn't identified).

To make sure I had everything ready to go right after lunch, I had a friend help me level match the first five players. Emac was transporting two DAC's and another person was transporting a Citypulse unit.

As Emac stated, the results were done individually and hopefully no one cheated by looking at the other's scoring (dang, I forgot to have a test monitor on hand...lol). I'm a stickler for no chatting during the evaluations, unless it is to direct me to change song tracks or to switch between the DAC and the Control. I was appreciative all the attendees took this evaluation serious and rewarded them with great food and drink. And no, no one had an abundance of alcoholic beverage until the end of round 2.

The Control ended up being the Rega Planet 2000 verses the Rega Jupiter, even though both were on hand.

Between rounds, everyone had dessert and had the opportunity to listen to a tricked out pair of Hawthorne Duet's. This gave everyone over an hour between Round 1 and Round 2.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 10:18 pm »

Shame you didn't have a Behringer SRC2496 to hear. It KILLS!!! the Citypulse.

Cheers
Charlie

Gordy · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 11:06 pm »

Great report Laserman, thanks to all for the time and effort involved! It seems like you used a well controlled system for the evaluation, though I did miss the fact that Bel Canto was in both sessions as I read your post. Out of curiosity, were the BC scores more or less identical in both sessions? This would certainly show if ear/mind fatigue was setting in at all during the latter session. Also.... do you have any pics of the food?

laserman · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Mar 2008, 11:41 pm »

Charles,

Funny you should mention the Behringer because it was the heart of the Hawthorne speaker setup and we did plug the Citypulse DA7.2 in and I liked it but not as much as the Benchmark. The source was a SB3 with an upgraded power supply.

Gordy,

Yes, listener fatique had set in and the BC scores did drop a little. After the second or third DAC in round 2 it was obvious to all that they were not in the same class as the DAC's in Round 1, so they wanted to go quicker through the referenced song tracks. They had silently reached the conclusion that these DAC's were either equal to or a little less than the Control in some areas and kept saying let's move on. Now mind you this was not a bad thing since the Rega Planet2000 is a very highly regarded unit.

Menu was Fusion style.

Italian Dish - home made fettuccine Alfredo, with vegetables and chicken (wife made the pasta)
Asian Dish - linguine with chunky peanut butter sauce with a dash of crushed red pepper
Southern Dish - spicy Carnitas pulled pork
American Dish - Sautéed / broiled chicken breast with herbs
Vegetable - roasted broccoli
Salad - tossed
Deserts - homemade chocolate chip and carrot cake cupcakes. Also, Emac's wife is brought an apple pie

Snack foods - m&ms, cashews, sunflower seeds, and candy coated pecans.

Cheese, pepperoni, olives, goat cheese spread, guacamole, crackers and chips - for late afternoon grazing if anyone got hungry but no one did after the snack break.

Pictures of Food:

Hawthorne Setup -

emac · « **Reply #29 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 01:54 am »

And man, were those Hawthorne's ever sweet sounding. I have the stock SI's, and this set up just killed them.

Gordy · « **Reply #30 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 03:29 am »

Thank you for the additional comments LM, most appreciated! And the food...

looks like you and PhilNY would really hit it off!

markC · « **Reply #31 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 03:46 am »

Thanks for your efforts, I'd love to attend a comparison just to sample the food!

Martyn · « **Reply #32 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 04:30 am »

Hmm...OK, now that I've re-read your test with a little more care than my previous lunch-time scan, it would seem that the D60's mean score is 1.07 out of 5, the DAC2 and DAC3 0.8, the DAC1 0.5, etc. Expressed like this the scores don't reveal anything conclusive, although I suspect that the standard deviations would be more interesting! The real story is probably in the mean and standard deviation for each of the seven attributes...

....and I agree with the comments about the food!

laserman · « **Reply #33 on:** 5 Mar 2008, 02:58 pm »

Gordy,

The Asian dish is PhilNY's recipe. He gave it to my wife when we attended the 2007 Holiday NY Audio RAVE. A great dish and everyone loved it.

Marty,

Our primary goal was to have fun but also be serious evaluators. The real interest was in the seven areas and not the overall score. I listed the areas each stood out so it would be a jumping off point for others searching for a DAC. Like any other piece of equipment, it comes down to personal preferences. One evaluator leaned heavily towards one area and another towards a different area. Having a composite score eliminates having one single opinion. We are not professional reviewers...just plan ole' audio enthusiast.

It would have been nice if I had gotten a few more expensive units. However, with restocking fees of 25% (for DAC's not in the evaluation) on top of shipping charges, would have cost me a lot more than I was willing to spend to have an enjoyable day. I do want to thank Topround (Mike) for sending me his DAC2, Kenny for providing the Benchmark DAC1, Emac for his Constantine and securing a Superpro 707, and Brian and Mike at Audiomagus for being very generous in sending out units to roll into the mix. Oh yeah, I don't want to forget Danny Richie. He had to expidite a replacement tube and it got here in plenty of time.

andy71 · « **Reply #34 on:** 21 Mar 2008, 11:24 pm »

Any word on the comparison b/w the DAC60 and the TADAC?

K.C. · « **Reply #35 on:** 22 Mar 2008, 02:50 am »

Quote from: Jon L on 29 Feb 2008, 07:20 pm

Quote from: mcullinan on 29 Feb 2008, 07:11 pm
The two words I always hear when describing the Benchmark are dry and clinical. If its said so many times there must be something to it.
Mike

It's all relative. If you are the sort who thinks something like Amperex 6922's is just perfectly neutral and dead-center on the wet/dry scale, yes you will think Benchmark is dry and clinical. On the other hand...

So true.

I own a recording studio and have worked in studios for 30+ years. The 2" 24 track gets little use these days since everything is tracked via ProTools HD. I have 16 channels of the Digidesigns PT HD A/D converters and 8 channels of Benchmark A/D. The Benchmarks are so much more accurate I don't use the Digis unless I have to. Desk is a vintage Neve, outboards are Manley, Univerisal Audio, Vac Rac, Avalon, GML and Vipers amongst others.

Monitoring during tracking and playback has been done through the original Benchmark DAC-1 and just today I updated to the current USB version DAC-1. Monitors are Genelec and Adam S3As.

The DAC-1 is so faithful and uncolored it truly serves the purpose of accurate playback as we develop tracks and mix. They're a reference in many Nashville studios and one other well known studio recently replaced their very pricey German A/D and D/A with Benchmarks. Maybe you've heard of the place, Abbey Road, where a few successful recordings have been made.

Right now I'm at home listening to some 24/96 tracks through my home system, a DAC-1 > Music Reference RM9 > Paradigm Signature S2s. The recordings sound like they did in the studio when they were made. I can honestly say that because I recorded them. When I want color I have other amps and speakers available.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 Mar 2008, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: K.C. on 22 Mar 2008, 02:50 am

The Benchmarks are so much more accurate I don't use the Digis unless I have to.

The DAC-1 is so faithful and uncolored it truly serves the purpose of accurate playback as we develop tracks and mix. They're a reference in many Nashville studios and one other well known studio recently replaced their very pricey German A/D and D/A with Benchmarks. Maybe you've heard of the place, Abbey Road, where a few successful recordings have been made.

Right now I'm at home listening to some 24/96 tracks through my home system, a DAC-1 > Music Reference RM9 > Paradigm Signature S2s. The recordings sound like they did in the studio when they were made. I can honestly say that because I recorded them. When I want color I have other amps and speakers available.

Two of my favorite words in audio. Faithful and uncolored. Although I like the term transparent, best of all.

Quote

Desk is a vintage Neve, outboards are Manley, Univerisal Audio, Vac Rac, Avalon, GML and Vipers amongst others.

Nice!!

Cheers

JohnnyK · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 02:05 pm »

Quote from: andy71 on 21 Mar 2008, 11:24 pm

Any word on the comparison b/w the DAC60 and the TADAC?

I sent back the TADAC. The TADAC and the Link III sounded very similar, however the Link III has better bass. Of all the DACs that I have listened to, I like the PS Audio Link III the best. I recently ordered a PS Audio Link III that has been modified by Rick Cullen at Cullen Circuits. Rick was one of the original designers of the PS Audio Link III.

I should be receiving the modified DAC 60 and the modified Link III this week. The comparision should be interesting.

John

andy71 · « **Reply #38 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 02:56 pm »

thanks for the update on the tadac. How did you find the "tubeyness" knob? (noticable impact? benefit? gimick?)

Also, several comments were made about the subtle nature of dacs on sound (including the big shoot out) but the camparisons seem to be to pretty good quality sources like a Rega CD player. Do you think that if the source is a plain old Squeezebox that the benefit of an ourboard DAC like the DAC60 or a PS Audiolink III will still be subtle?

Thanks

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Mar 2008, 02:59 pm »

No, not subtle. The PSA unit is very nice and not tubey or rolled off in any way. It is a very nice DAC in its stock form. My Bel Canto DAC3 is only slightly better in its smoothness. I run SB3 out to DAC3 now but had the PSA unit and loved it. Chose the BC for its preamp capability.