[s2groove]

I'm trying to piece together a system that will have "synergy."  I have some components already but would like a recomendation from you guys about a preamp.  My system so far includes a Mccormack HTI deluxe amp, which is basically a 3 channel version of a dna 0.5 deluxe (using l/r channels for stereo, and the center is for a rarely used passive sub.), I have 2 sets of speakers to choose from, a pair of vienna acoustic mozarts, and Reference 3a de cappo's.  A Marantz dv8400 is my digital playback, and I have a pro-ject debut turntable for the smooth sound of analog.  I also have a rarely used rel strata III subwoofer so I can choose between my passive and this sub.  All I'm missing for my first mid-fi to hi-fi system is a preamp.  I'd ideally like one that has 2 sets of outputs, can mate well with my system, cost betweet $1-2k new or used, and possibly mate well with a tube amp for later experiments (looking into a cary rocket amp at the moment).  It doesn't necessarily  have to be a tube preamp, but I'm leaning towards one.  I've been looking closely at the vtl 2.5,  cary slp-94, conrad johnson pv-11, rogue perseus, bat vk-3i, and others.  Please tell me if I'm looking at the right preamps to have good synergy with my current setup, and others I should be looking at.  I know output impedence is a big factor when trying to put a tube/solid state combo together, what is cosidered a low impedence for something like this?  Thanks for all the help.

-Andy     

[lonewolfny42]

Of the ones you have mentioned, the BAT vk-3i is a nice model....does run a little hot. I think it would work well with your McCormack amp.
Another you should also consider...a used Modwright SWL 9.0SE preamp.

[maxwalrath]

Another you should also consider...a used Modwright SWL 9.0SE preamp.

There's one for sale now on AC at the upper end of your price range with a ton of upgrades.  Wish I could give it a try, the stock units sound wonderful.

[lonewolfny42]

Another you should also consider...a used Modwright SWL 9.0SE preamp.

There's one for sale now on AC at the upper end of your price range with a ton of upgrades.  Wish I could give it a try, the stock units sound wonderful.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51235.0 ....

[s2groove]

I forgot about modwright, i've read great things about them.  I'll have to look into that one, it's tempting.

[S Clark]

Or step up to the dead quiet Dodd battery. A bit out of the price range, but a good opportunity available now.
 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49700.0

[s2groove]

That Dodd is a beautiful piece, but battery charging, and the price (while a great deal), may be deal breakers for me.  I'll still consider it.  Thanks for the input guys.  The modwright's looking more and more attractive after some preliminary research.

[lonewolfny42]

The modwright's looking more and more attractive after some preliminary research.

FWIW....they sell quick........

[Big Red Machine]

Just lowered my price on the Dodd.  Got my tax return already, so I might as well just move this thing at a steal price.

[woodsyi]

The modwright's looking more and more attractive after some preliminary research.

That deal is good one with the extras.  Modwright I think is really a hybrid design and a good one.  I have one.  I also have a full octal tube (6sn7) preamp that has sweeter vocals but it doesn't have the rhythm or pace of the SWL 9.0.  I am not saying SWL is lean -- it's a full sounding unit especially with tube rectified PS.  What kind of music do you listen to?

[martyo]

Any of the AVA preamps but in particular, the T8 and the Ultra, and they are in your price range.

[richidoo]

Some so called experts say that a well designed tube preamp should have <500 ohm output impedance. Others say anything less than 1/10th of the amp's input impedance is OK. Most preamps that are recommended in AC circles will fit the bill because if they didn't they wouldn't sound so good (weak bass) and wouldn't be recommended by ACers. Typical (of olden days) input impedance of solid state amp is 10kohm, but check your manual to be sure, it is easy enough to raise it with the design of the input stage. Tube preamps that I am familiar with that have low output impedance are Eastern Electric Minimax (110 ohms) and Manley Shrimp (50 ohms!) I prefer the sound of the Minimax to the Shrimp. Both are around $1200 new. I've seen minimax sell on AC recently for $700-800, a great deal! It is very responsive to tube rolling so you can taylor the sound to your taste with tubes.

The CJ will be warm and fat sounding, which is a lot of fun, especially on R&B, classic rock, some jazz, most vocals. The Cary will be rich sounding but allow a big margin of error on the specs If Cary says 600ohms, forget it.  Rogue and BAT have great rep and well loved here, but I've never heard them. I looked for VTL 5.5 and 2.5 before I got the Minimax but couldn't find any 5.5 and no bargains on 2.5. That should tell you something. VTL will be a less colored sound than CJ or Cary, very clear and fast and hold value well, plus they have a remote.

If you are thinking about going to a tube amp, it should have a higher input impedance (>100k) than most solid state amps, so you can consider preamps with less ballsy output stage.

There are so many great preamps out there. Others I forget to mention are SAS 7A-10A, Wyetech (maybe out of your budget,) DeHavilland. A used McIntosh C220 is a great uncolored sounding tube preamp. If you can solder, the Aikido kits are a very good design and well documented, easy to assemble for far less than $1k. Ray Bronk has been on the same quest, maybe check out some of his recent threads looking for tube preamp advice.
Rich

[maxwalrath]

gotta second richidoo's SAS 10a suggestion, it sounds very similar to a stock modwright and can often be found for a good deal less money on the used market. I's easily in your range if you wanted to buy new as well.

[woodsyi]

I don't know about 10A but 11A was really nice -- very transparent.

[doug s.]

I'm trying to piece together a system that will have "synergy."  I have some components already but would like a recomendation from you guys about a preamp.  My system so far includes a Mccormack HTI deluxe amp, which is basically a 3 channel version of a dna 0.5 deluxe (using l/r channels for stereo, and the center is for a rarely used passive sub.), I have 2 sets of speakers to choose from, a pair of vienna acoustic mozarts, and Reference 3a de cappo's.  A Marantz dv8400 is my digital playback, and I have a pro-ject debut turntable for the smooth sound of analog.  I also have a rarely used rel strata III subwoofer so I can choose between my passive and this sub.  All I'm missing for my first mid-fi to hi-fi system is a preamp.  I'd ideally like one that has 2 sets of outputs, can mate well with my system, cost betweet $1-2k new or used, and possibly mate well with a tube amp for later experiments (looking into a cary rocket amp at the moment).  It doesn't necessarily  have to be a tube preamp, but I'm leaning towards one.  I've been looking closely at the vtl 2.5,  cary slp-94, conrad johnson pv-11, rogue perseus, bat vk-3i, and others.  Please tell me if I'm looking at the right preamps to have good synergy with my current setup, and others I should be looking at.  I know output impedence is a big factor when trying to put a tube/solid state combo together, what is cosidered a low impedence for something like this?  Thanks for all the help.

-Andy

i would recommend any of the melos preamps i recommended in this thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=51066.0

it seems the ma333 has sold at $1500 after two days; personally, i dunno what took it so long to sell.     possibly cuz the owner dint wanna ship it... 

i have heard the modwright pre, it is also an exceptionally nice unit, imo.  a bud of mine (who owns & loves melos, bought on my adwice), also says the bat pre's are *wery* nice...

among the ones you have mentioned, based on my experience, & those i trust, i would forget about the vtl - my bud said his cheap dared sl2000 smoked the 5.5, let alone the 2.5; & his comments about his yust-purchased melos sha-1 are the ones i quoted in the above-mentioned thread.

i'd forget about the rogue preamps - i had a 99 magnum, & it was extremely microphonic, & wouldn't drive 5m cables into a 25kohm load.  in spite of the fact that rogue rated it at 150 ohm output impedance, its true rating is 2.5kohms - or more.  and, my bud whose dared sl2000 crushed the vtl5.5, found that his prior rogue 99 magnum was equaled by the dared.

i'd also forget about the cary pre's - i owned an slp98 - better than the slp-94, & my melos was so much better than the slp98, it wasn't even a contest.

one caveat, tho - in *your* system, you may prefer these others.  but, at least re: cary/rogue/vtl, i would put a melos up against any of them in any system.     the melos' output impedance is also quite low; i do not remember the exact spec, but i know it's lower than 150ohms.  and, it can easily drive a 12.5kohm load w/5m cables...

doug s.

[richidoo]

Doug, where to buy a new Melos? The website seems to be down/expired.
Thanks
Rich

[mcullinan]

I would suggest a Supratek pre. Ive had mine for a while and cant believe how good it truly is.
Mike

[Cacophonix]

Try Odyssey Candela. It'll fit your budget, and is a great preamp. Very solidly built and sounds very nice.
Don't bother emailing or visiting odyssey website.
Just call Klaus.

[doug s.]

Doug, where to buy a new Melos? The website seems to be down/expired.
Thanks
Rich

sorry, melos has been outta biz for several years.  pick up a used one; a couple are f/s presently on agon...

doug s.

[s2groove]

The odyssey candela looks good to.  I think i've narrowed it to the modwright, bat, and odyssey.  The melos would be a contender if I could still get service for them, but the out of bussiness kinda scares me away from them.  Thanks to all who replied, I have considered all of your options.  richidoo and doug s, thanks for the explaination on output impedence it helped clarify the subject for me.