Lorelei vs. North Creek Music Borealis

byteme · « **on:** 5 Oct 2003, 05:48 pm »

Recently in my search I've run across the North Creek Music Borealis "kit" speaker which uses the same woofer and a similar tweeter to the Lorelei, if I did those I'd actually go with the 9900 Revelator and their almost "ludicrious speed" crossover the "Unlimited". Very similar stature, however the Lorelei is a bit taller, drivers are BOTH aligned on center and has a sloped baffel (time aligned drivers?).

I imagine sound is very similar, no? The biggest difference would be crossover design and components. And if there is any difference between the 9700 tweeter and the 9900 the Borealis uses.

Couple of addl. questions - Are the veneers stained or is it a straight varnish on the Lorelei? Is the "light cherry" the finish on the Nightingale and Circe on the web site? What to mate these with for a center channel? How are the cabinets internally braced on the Lorelei? Do they use any internal damping other than bracing? Are the XO's isolated from vibration inside the cabinet?

Thanks! I also posted similarly in another thead but don't want to hijack that one.

scottpretti · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Oct 2003, 07:01 pm »

Sorry for posting Northcreek info on the Odyssey space.... Klaus, if this is not okay, please delete my post.

By the way I love my 3 monos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

George at Northcreek builds the best xovers I've ever seen or heard!! The pictures on the web site don't do them justice. Every component is crimped then soldered for the best connection. I heard the Borealis (9500) at a friends, this prompted me to build the OkaraII with upgraded xover, 9500 tweeter (as i needed a smaller speaker). The OkaraII was my first DIY speaker and it spoiled me rotten. I think in the setup directions Northcreek states to tilt the Borealis back 6 to 10 degrees on the stands. I have tilted my Okaras 7 degrees with positive results. Northcreek just came out with a Okara center (MTM) they may have a center (MTM) design for the 7 inch Scanspeak drivers also, you may have to email them on this.

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 06:41 pm »

Scott, no problem at all, since the Northcreek is pretty darn good itself.

With teh Lorelei, we're using the 9700 instead, because it sounds better in this design, that simple.

Again, the speaker is indeed the $ 7,000 SL Legatos, with teh ridiculously overbuild xo coming from Germany as well. Just a very, very good speaker that Rolf designed over years.

Late,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 06:44 pm »

Forgot to address some q's:

Time alignment ? Yes.
Veneer / stain / either way. And yes, light cherry as per the other models on the web site.
Same sound of the speakers ? NO, absolutely not.
Bracing internally / no, not necessary.
XO is bolted onto the base, out of the way.

Late

byteme · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey

Forgot to address some q's:

Time alignment ? Yes.
Veneer / stain / either way. And yes, light cherry as per the other models on the web site.
Same sound of the speakers ? NO, absolutely not.
Bracing internally / no, not necessary.
XO is bolted onto the base, out of the way.

Late

Klaus,

Thanks! I'll be in touch when it comes time to plunk down the $$. Before I do anything I'd like to talk to you. I'm absolutely loving the Stratos Extreme and want something on the end of that chain that will do it justice!

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Oct 2003, 07:55 pm »

Hey Lovume (absolutely love it. Crack sme up

)

Anytime,

Klaus

satfrat · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 05:35 am »

Quote from: byteme

Thanks! I'll be in touch when it comes time to plunk down the $$. Before I do anything I'd like to talk to you. I'm absolutely loving the Stratos Extreme and want something on the end of that chain that will do it justice!

My feelings exactly,,, that`s why I went with the Lorelei`s, front AND rear. I`ve got all 4 sides covered!

Regards, Robin

byteme · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 12:31 pm »

Quote from: satfrat

Quote from: byteme

Thanks! I'll be in touch when it comes time to plunk down the $$. Before I do anything I'd like to talk to you. I'm absolutely loving the Stratos Extreme and want something on the end of that chain that will do it justice!
My feelings exactly,,, that`s why I went with the Lorelei`s, front AND rear. I`ve got all 4 sides covered! Regards, Robin

Robin,

You got them in house yet? When are we going to see a review

If nothing else I'd be interested in a PM with your thoughts and comparisons.

scottpretti · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 02:43 pm »

Robin, what are you using for front center?

satfrat · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 05:44 pm »

Quote from: scottpretti

Robin, what are you using for front center?

I`m using the Nemisis of course Scott, front and rear. I`m treating this like my car. Every 3000 miles I rotate my radial tires front to back, well I`m going to do the same for my seakers as the rear won`t see the amount of information that the front 3 will. It`ll be same side rotation (front to back) so`s to keep the info simular. Besides the accuracy issue, this was a reason I went with the same 3 speakers, front & rear. This might sound foolish but that`s me in a nutshell!

Regards, Robin

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 05:54 pm »

Byteme, my speaker set is being finished up and should be sent out soon. 6 moons is doing a review on the Lorelei that should be finished any day now. I go to that site daily to check on it.

Because of the fact that so little has been posted about the Lorelei, I plan on talking quite a bit. All tho I didn`t find much said, everything I did find indicates a gem in the ruff here. I think it`s worth taking a chance anyways. Regards, Robin

byteme · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Oct 2003, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: satfrat

Byteme, my speaker set is being finished up and should be sent out soon. 6 moons is doing a review on the Lorelei that should be finished any day now. I go to that site daily to check on it. Because of the fact that so little has been posted about the Lorelei, I plan on talking quite a bit. All tho I didn`t find much said, everything I did find indicates a gem in the ruff here. I think it`s worth taking a chance anyways. Regards, Robin

thanks! I'll probably vote with my $$ sometime after the first of the year - I'll be using tax refund $$ - so between you, 6Moons and Captian Humble I should have plenty to go on.

Thanks!

byteme · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Oct 2003, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: klaus@odyssey

Forgot to address some q's:

Same sound of the speakers ? NO, absolutely not.
Late

Klaus,

Now that I've read the glowing reviews on 6Moons and here from customers and seen the pictures of the construction, drivers, crossover, and finish the only thing that's really changed is the slight price adjustment of $200. Could you perhaps elborate a bit on what you meant by the above? Sonically, how do the Lorelie's differ from the Borealis? I'm surprised they would be too much different based on the drivers and cabinet size, both are rear ported, etc.

Thanks!

satfrat · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 03:34 am »

It`s all in the crossovers Byteme, did you read about the makeup of them? You probably don`t find that sort of overkill in the Borealis. It would be my guess (and that`s all this is) that the Borealis would have more accurate sonics but that wouldn`t necessarily equate to a loudspeaker that draws you into the music like Lorelei does. For me, accuracy isn`t everything but an emotional experience is and the Lorelei does that to me, in spades. They require very little toe-in and present a deep complete soundstage for my smallish living room. And they LOVE power. In fact, I have only one complaint, that G’D’ UPS damaged one of my four loudspeakers so I only have one pair of Lorelei`s up & running. I truely long for all 4 Lorelei`s cranking at +100db as I’m fastly becoming a 2 channel guy with only one pair.

Regards, Robin

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 07:17 am »

Robin kind of got it nailed. Also, Srajan's conclusion about the different models and their overall design goals and signatures are on the money as well, as far as the models that I've heard with our gear that is. You have to familiarity, or otherwise others are just talking out of their, you know what.
However, I also have to put it in perspective. These are rather slight differences, not day and night, so maybe my statement was a bit over the top. The one thing about Scan speak's is that I have yet to hear a really bad speaker (for my taste) with Scan's. Those drivers are so balanced and have this seductive, emotional quality that it is hard to screw them up.

BT, just call me, because otherwise I'll be still writing in a couple of hours.

Late,

Klaus

klaus@odyssey · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 07:28 am »

Forgot,

you mentioned the price increase. Yes, I've had to. 2.5 K was a bit over ambitious, especially with the Euro hammering the Greenback. Keep in mind that we get the x-overs from Symphonic Line, and those parts aren't cheap, even though Rolf really scales back his margin in order for us to do this project. Even $ 2,700 isn't much, because those cabinets are damn expensive, albeit much less in Canada than here, and no, we won't get our cabinets from China in the near future. The cabinet sides are special, and Alain does a perfect job. So, you also have 4 pcs of Scan's, and then the internal treatment, and the very expensive topline platinum WBT's. The Coils in the x-over alone are hundreds of $. Because we do pretty much everything in house anyway, it takes Travis between 5-6 hours to finish up one speaker!!

I really hope to get a bit more profit back through the back door once the Dollar gains strength again, or at least evens itself out on a 1=1 basis, which should be the realistic exchange considering the scale of durable consumer goods.

Just wanted to mention the sheer value of the speakers, performance aspects and personal tastes aside.

Late,

Klaus

byteme · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 02:55 pm »

Thanks guys, especially the last couple posts by Klaus and Robin. I don't doubt at all the value of the Lorelie, the reason these two speakers have made it this far is because of the bang for the buck. The Stratos extreme I've got is just insane in that category and would have no doubt the Lorelie would be the same. Klaus, when it get to that time I will definately be calling you!

Thanks again.

byteme · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: satfrat

It`s all in the crossovers Byteme, did you read about the makeup of them? You probably don`t find that sort of overkill in the Borealis. ...

Robin,

I've looked into both crossovers and I actually think the're gonna be pretty close. Here's the Borealis data, keep in mind this would be slightly tweaked to compensate for the diferences in the Revelator 9900 tweeter I'd get -

"Borealis 9500 Unlimited Project Consists of "soft matched" 18W/8545 and D2905/9500 drivers (I'd be getting the 9900 tweeter), all 10 AWG air core inductors, Zen high frequency film capacitors bypassed with Harmony and Crescendo capacitors for the woofer section, all Crescendo high frequency film-and-foil capacitors in the tweeter series section, North power resistors, all crossover components hand matched to ±1%, TefFlex AGå an Lex OFHC inter wiring, binding posts, etc as above; everything required to build the loudspeaker system except the wood. The crossover network is fully assembled and tested. Component list $1,204.00."

I'd also get the hard matched burned in drivers. The inductors and resistors are hand made by North Creek.

All that said, for me, it's all about the emotion. That's why I love the Stratos and the Nixon Tubedac!!

satfrat · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: byteme

Robin,

I've looked into both crossovers and I actually think the're gonna be pretty close. Here's the Borealis data, keep in mind this would be slightly tweaked to compensate for the diferences in the Revelator 9900 tweeter I'd get -

"Borealis 9500 Unlimited Project Consists of "soft matched" 18W/8545 and D2905/9500 drivers (I'd be getting the 9900 tweeter), all 10 AWG air core inductors, Zen high frequency film capacitors bypassed with Harmony and Crescendo capacitors for the woofer section, all Cr ...

To tell you the truth and this is only from askng around, the 9700 Scan presents itself in a more realistic fashion than the 9900 or the 7000 which both tend to have a sharp top end, like that of extra sharp cheddar. (which I love, the cheese that is

) I just heard a set of Onix ref 1`s that sounded dynamite but had this biting sort of high. To my ear, this is not pleasing. Maybe that`s why I like Bybee`s so much, because I`d rather have a natural, more realistic sound than to hear the very max of what a tweeter can do. And this is why I really love these Lorelei`s, this a marriage made in heaven, the 8545/9700, they sound as one. I truely hate a loudspeaker that will identify each driver that the note is originating from, as the Onix`s did. BTW, what would you have to give for the cabinets or would you attempt to build the yourself? $1204 is a good price for the quality of the components but then the cabinets are another beast to needs to be right. Regards, Robin

byteme · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Oct 2003, 06:08 pm »

Quote from: satfrat

BTW, what would you have to give for the cabinets or would you attempt to build the yourself? $1204 is a good price for the quality of the components but then the cabinets are another beast to needs to be right. Regards, Robin ...

MY GOD MAN -- These have to go in my house!!

No, I learned long ago that while I'm somewhat capable my woodworking skill is limited to building basement shelving or the like. These have to look good in my living room!! I'd be doing cabinets from Lee Taylor - http://www.taylorspeakers.com/html/body_north_creek.html - 10x38x12(depth) with 1 1/8th MDF sides, ladder bracing and a sealed crossover "compartment" in the bottom. Finished in my choice of a few woods. Final assembly (of the speaker components and crossover mouting - NOT assembly) would be done by yours truly.

I appreciate you comments about the tweeter - that would be an issue for me as well. Yet another plus for the Lorelie...