[kyrill]

Hehe
my first 10 Liter of beer is in a way finished
instructions of the Beer machine says ferment for 3-5 days, but listening
to yr recommendations i used 9 days in living room temperature.
Then i put the whole 10 liter thing in the refrigerator and waited 2 days.
AND YES, I HAVE BEER. it looks like beer, it smells like beer, i have a nice big white foam
which disappears after 4-5 minutes it tasted like beer BUT
I miss bite. the after taste is bland, there is no overwhelming Co2 in it
the beginning of the drink is promising the after taste is ehh bland

then i contrasted to a few commercial mainstream beers
1) yes definably less co2 "bite"
2) taste was not that watery to my surprise and then i found it:

much too less alcohol.  ( hmm direct Dutch -->Engl translation i mean, "there is too little alcohol" )

So i am now doing my second batch and i add a whole normal pot of honey to it
and i add 9 litres of water instead of the 10ltr.  instructions mention.

and i bought a 20 ltr glass bottle for 2nd fermentation

this will be continued

[samplesj]

You shouldn't need to add sugars (honey included).  It sounds like there isn't enough malted barley or maybe your yeast is bad.

[Andrikos]

I sure hope your "room temperature" is not any higher than ~20C (high 60s F).

That's for ales (top fermented beer).
If your room temp is higher than above, you will get a lot of funky flavors (esters) that are not supposed to be there and also higher alcohols that will give you a WHOPPER of a hangover.

But, brewing is fun, you learn as you go.
Good luck and have fun! cheers!

[kyrill]

what not higher than 20 degrees celsius? i have 19-21 degrees in th e living room

i had I think enough  fermentation. i saw within 1.5 day the pressure go to to 1 bar  ( 15 psi) above the normal 1 bar.
also it doesn't 't taste sweet. I can drink a liter of it in 45 minutes  easy and do not notice any kind of "changed consciousness...  but no hang over.
I do intend to make the best beer money can buy within a year... YEAH

[Wayne1]

Hello Kyrill,

I am really glad your first batch turned out good. My first batch was awful!!. It did prove to me that beer could be made at home, so I did persevere.

The 2nd batch you are talking about is technically known as a Braggot. That is a malt based beverage with hops and a goodly amount of honey. Honey can ferment out completely. If your yeast is sturdy enough it can consume all the sugar. It will taste very dry and have quite a bit of alcohol. The flavor will be more wine-like than beer like. It will take longer to age with the extra alcohol.

I will agree with the others in that you should use malted barley for your main ingredient. Try some of the Brewferm kits from http://www.brouwland.com/  They have quite a few different varieties and have taken most of the hard work out of the brewing process. Try a few different styles until you find one that is close to what you like. Then you can fine tune it with different varieties of grains and hops.

Have fun!

[kyrill]

thx Wayne

i am reading now and get a bit ehh ( mentally a step back) if i read that the brewing/mashing process needs 3 hrs or so with stepping up the temperature in 2 or 3 steps and keep it at that exact temp for a given period of time, much more complex ( at least to read)
 I thought amateurish that it was mixing the different grinded grains and hops and sugar and so on and then simple cooking it

So i continue using beer kits so i only have to boil, add sugar  cool it, and add the yeast
And yes brouwland is a very complete "shop" nice to read that different yeast will make (very) different taste out of the same brew. I also bought at the beershop (!) a transparent 20 liter glass carboy and now read that it should avoid sunlight. A dark brown or green bottle should have been better. Why does the shop not tell me this and only  have transparent carboys for sale??

i have a question after you do the beer in bottles with batch priming, under which temperature do you store the bottles and for how long?
thx

[Wayne1]

Kyrill,

Step mashing is a somewhat older technique used to extract maximum yield from the grains. Most two row barley these days is fully modified and step mashing is not needed. On a small scale level, single infusion mashing is plenty good. 60 minute mash, then lauter (rinse the grains) about 30 minutes, bring up to a boil and boil for 90 minutes with hops added at different times. Cool it off and add the yeast.

On a brewpub level, 20 hectolitres, my brew day was about 8 hours, including cleaning the brewhouse. All grain brewing at home would be about 6 hours. Extract brewing shouldn't take over 3 hours.

20 litre glass carboys are not made in green. You can cover it with a blanket or towel to block out sunlight. Some of the larger carboys that are used to transport chemicals sometimes come with a Styrofoam container that completely covers the carboy.

Green or clear glass will pass light below the 550 nanometer frequency which will react with hops and cause "skunkiness". Only brown or darker glass will block those frequencies.

Primed beer should be aged between 2C and 15C. The higher temps will accelerate the aging process and your beer will be ready to drink sooner. Much higher temps than 15 C could cause off flavors to form. If you are going to drink all the beer within a week, it shouldn't matter too much. If it sits around for a couple of months, you might end up dumping it down the drain. I certainly dumped quite a bit a brew during my learning process.

[samplesj]

i am reading now and get a bit ehh ( mentally a step back) if i read that the brewing/mashing process needs 3 hrs or so with stepping up the temperature in 2 or 3 steps and keep it at that exact temp for a given period of time, much more complex ( at least to read)
 I thought amateurish that it was mixing the different grinded grains and hops and sugar and so on and then simple cooking it

Only if you are doing all-grain.  You can still make good beer with malt extract (either liquid or dry) and hops [no sugar though] and if you are comfortable with the extra step some specialty grains.

So i continue using beer kits so i only have to boil, add sugar  cool it, and add the yeast
And yes brouwland is a very complete "shop" nice to read that different yeast will make (very) different taste out of the same brew. I also bought at the beershop (!) a transparent 20 liter glass carboy and now read that it should avoid sunlight. A dark brown or green bottle should have been better. Why does the shop not tell me this and only  have transparent carboys for sale??

There are tons of malt extract kits out there that are just boil / cool / yeast (no sugar).

You want a clear bottle for fermentation so you can see what is going on.  If it has to be stored in a lite place then cover it with towels or something (closets are nice).

[kyrill]

 

[BobM]

I've got 5 gallons of a Rauchbeer (think Octoberfest with a light smokey smell) in the secondary right now. I will have to bottle it this weekend. Only about 2-3 weeks to go till I can begin enjoying it, but probably more than a month before it all blends together perfectly. 

Enjoy,
Bob

[kyrill]

today i carefully siphoned the beer from the carboy into the beermachine which has a Co2 cilinder apparatus integrated, so you can pressure it to to 15 psi max. It was a nerve breaking exercise. I really wanted to keep the whole process as sterile as possible
i did it in the kitchen. Chlorine and rinsed that whole part of the kitchen including the beermachine and the siphon but i had no siphon clip..
I could clearly see a grey looking deposit on the bottom of the glass carboy ( demijohn?) so i thought I had to manually hover the end of the siphon tube half an inch above the deposit only the "beer"was not transparent at all.
I could see the 1st fermentation was coming to an end and wanted to move the beer just before it would stop fermenting. So the beer was "muddy" but dark yellow. To shorten the story with that particular siphon i had to reestablish "contact" 5-6 times and the beer was really playing with the air and making all kinds of friends with oxygen.. The i found out that the end of the tube was sharply diagonal so i could actually just let it rest on the bottom and it would siphon it beer 95% sideways... ah well for the next time it will be so much easier..
smell was wonderful, a beer smell and a bit fruity. I could taste the alcohol now, much much better , thank you 
However will i have contaminated the beer with a a few infections? probably
I hope the colder temperature, a week in the cellar at 15degrees Celsius but under 10 psi pressure of Co2 i hope the beer will survive. then i will bottle it.

[kyrill]

well slowly my experience rises

best i learned is how much the kind of yeast influences the taste and don't ferment above 22,5 degrees Celsius
as some yeast produce the banana ester near and above that temperature. A taste which I  detest in beer
Also i learned to take wheat from commercial brands out of the bottles
you can buy in  shops. My number one beer is West Malle triple a Belgian beer
with living wheat in the bottle. Very fine beer

The beer i made is not close at all to it as i have a random recipe, not Tailored  yet
to a specific taste. First i learn the mechanics
here a picture of my current 1st fermentation process this is the second  day and already the layer of foam is getting less. temp is around 19 degrees C

[BobM]

Way too much air in that bottle - fill-er-up!!!

And wrap a towel around it when it is fermenting to keep the temperature consistent and the light out. Light bad - dark good, that's why home brewers use brown bottles and not clear ones.

Enjoy,
Bob

[Wayne1]

Hello BobM and kyrill,

Airspace doesn't matter in a fermenter. The CO2 given off by the yeast will displace the air and keep the fermenting beer safe.

The airlock will allow the CO2 to escape and prevent air from coming back in.

Wrapping a wet towel around the carboy is a good idea. Keep one end in a bucket of water so that evaporation will help maintain constant temps.

The banana/clove ester that is common in German wheat beers is from a particular strain of yeast. Using a "standard" ale yeast, properly hydrated and active will prevent those flavors from developing. 18-20 C is the best temp to ferment most ale strains.

[PaulHilgeman]

Awsome, a Homebrew Thread!!!

I have been homebrewing for a while now, and get some really good results, on par or better than commercial examples.  At parties, the stuff literally vanishes!!!  When there is ample supply of good beer, people will drink TONS of it!!

Kyrill - If you are looking to brew a good Westmalle clone, you need to use the right yeast, the yeast gives that beer almost all of its flavors.  It is Wyeast 3787 if you can get that over there.  The recipe is simple, use enough Pilsner malt and about 20% sugar to get you to 1.080 starting gravity.  Pitch lots of yeast.  Do a starter, or pitch 2 packs.  It should hopefully finish around 1.008.  I did one where I used Styrian Goldings for the hops and it turned out very good.  As good as the real thing, just a little different.  I think it is hard to get REALLY good belgian beer here in the US since most of it comes by ship/truck. 

Recentely I did a Rochefort 10 clone.  It is out of this world, very very tasty and at 11.3% ABV, very dangerous.

Have fun homebrewing, if there is any advice I can give, watch you fermentation temps, always err on the LOW side.  Most ales will ferment even as low as 55-58 degrees.  The ONLY beers taht should get about 70 during fermentation are belgian beers.  Second, always pitch enough yeast, if your gravity is higher than 1.045 or so, you need to do a starter or pitch 2-3 packs.  Dry yeast needs 10g per 1.060 gravity or so. 

And like stated before, go with a no-rinse acid based sanitizer like star san.

-Paul

[BobM]

Hello BobM and kyrill,

Airspace doesn't matter in a fermenter. The CO2 given off by the yeast will displace the air and keep the fermenting beer safe.

The airlock will allow the CO2 to escape and prevent air from coming back in.

My comment about empty space has nothing to do with the quality, it has everything to do with the quantity that you will come out with. If you're going to do this then you should maximize your time and effort. 

Bob

[kyrill]

Oh I love you all

self made organic rich tone, 3D deep, no electronic mass market flavor, real live
and live real

YESSZZ   

thx for the advices and support

becoz of the photo i made i had the light on in the cellar
i mean look at the back ground, this is NOT my living room or kitchen

So when i left it will be pitch black
the room has a very steady temperature but it will do no harm to cover the bottle
with its own coat. I will

[kyrill]

This is the 3rd day of fermentation and i never had so much foam? What does it mean?


what happened with the picture?

[Wayne1]

This is the 3rd day of fermentation and i never had so much foam? What does it mean?

It means you have some mighty happy yeastie beasties 

The yeast is eating away at the sugars and reproducing and producing alcohol and CO2

The large quantity of foam, called krausen, is just indicitve of a very healthy fermentation.

That is one reason to ferment in large containers. To allow the krausen to form and not clog the airlock.

Another method is to use a smaller container with a blow-off tube into a bucket to contain the expelled krausen.

[kyrill]

Well those mighty happy beasties are still having fun in reproducing, drinking alcohol

this is now the end of the 4th day and the foam is even bigger!
I wonder what i did wrong in all of my former trials. I did add vitamins for yeast in the starter, maybe a bit too much