[Ichinichi]

i just sold my hd-650 headphones to move into speakers. danny's modified insignias amazed me with their imaging.

wants:
resolution
imaging at least as good as the modified insignias
big sweetspot would be very nice
i want them to sound good off-axis (am i using that term correctly?), you know, outside the sweetspot.

environment:
i live in a small apartment, so i've no dedicated listening room
the apartment is about 400 - 520 sqft
hardwood floors

genres:
i want a system that will excel at classical music, large and small works from beethoven's ninth to a chopin nocturne. then vocals. i would like the sweetness of the vocals to give me goosebumps. with the insignias, i closed my eyes and the speakers disappeared...aurally i mean, in their place, the singer was right in front of me! and when i opened my eyes...that voice was still coming from in front of me! it was like a floating consciousness singing to me! i want that.

size:
doesn't matter

budget:
$550 used

considering:
onix reference 1
onix rocket rs550

[mcgsxr]

Just to clarify, you will be using 2 different sets of speakers, or are no longer using the modded Insignia's?

[satfrat]

I have a set of Odyssey Epiphony speakers that I'll let go for $495.




Cheers,
Robin

[PhishPhan]

Your place seems very similar to mine: about 500 sqft with hardwood floors. I'm using some tyler audio taylos right now and they sound magical, but I think they are out of your price range used.

I would definitely stick to monitors in your case, and probably buy used as you'll get so much more for your money.

[Audio-den]

IF YOU CAN LISTEN TO USHER S520 GREAT SPEAKER FOR $400.00 ENJOY ALAN

[mcullinan]

I have a pair of Epos M5s in my upstairs system and they sound great. Detailed, big big did I say big Soundstage, and good vocals. Used you can pick these up for about $350. They use a tweeter with a gold-anodized diaphragm of aluminum alloy terminated with a polyamide suspension. <-- stole that part.
Very nice.
Mike

[Scott F.]

Hey Alan,

The speakers Robin (Satfrat) has are the same ones you heard at my place. They were in the Odyssey solid state system. These are very tube friendly and have a monstrous sound stage. They also have good off axis imaging and sound dispersion. They go down to about 40-45 Hz. Mated to that modified JoLida 102b I mentioned, it is an absolutely wonderful sound.

I can't comment on the Rockets. Not sure what their impedance curve looks like or if they would mate well to tube gear. Be careful as they are listed at 6 ohms. If the impedance curve drops too far they could spell disaster for a tube amp.

How big of room are you putting the new speakers in?

Scott

I have a set of Odyssey Epiphony speakers that I'll let go for $495.




Cheers,
Robin

[Woodsea]

I have heard Robin's speakers as well, well not his.  They are astounding (outstanding), and Klaus is a very nice big guy. 

[Ichinichi]

This is for a completely separate setup - my main setup, if you will. The insignias will be taken by the Lady when she goes off for school in June, since she did a double take when she heard them.

BIG UPDATE! you guys will love this.

sold the whole headphone setup last night in under three hours.

budget is now $1500 delivered for amplification and speakers (of course we could stretch it by $100 or so).

now what am i looking at?

i ONLY buy used or at used prices.

i might have to get a listen to those odysseys!

[Dan Driscoll]

I'm not familiar with the speakers you mentioned, so I'm just wondering if you have you ever listened to Vandersteen's? Used Model 2C's are available in a wide range of prices, depending on the particular version and vintage.

Used Model 2C
Used Model 2Ce Signature

I don't know where you're located, so check Audiogon, there may be a pair close enough for you to demo.

[Big Red Machine]

Get some SAlk SongTowers and a cheapo integrated or receiver until you can get a better one.

[JimJ]

I'd echo the Vandersteen recommendation. The 2ce's I heard threw a very wide soundstage, and their footprint is very small so they're apartment-friendly speakers.

I'm using BIB's in my apartment, not sure how you like the single-driver approach but they'd fit in the smallest rooms...assuming you can get them up the stairs

http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp

[mcgsxr]

I was a spirited participant in your last thread, about pairing amplification and source to a given set of speakers, to a specific budget.  This is because, for me, when someone hones in on a given speaker, it tends to highlight the sound they like.

Here, I feel out of place somewhat - you are historically a headphone listener (and I recall that the 'phones you owned are reknowned for detail retreival) that is transitioning into a 2 channel stereo listener.

To ask for blanket speaker recommendations at a price is tougher to respond to, when I don't know what you have heard before and liked.

For example, you are mentioning imaging as important, and that would lead me to recommend monitors on stands.  Given that you are in a smaller room, the requirement to fill that room is partially alleviated, and with realistic budget in mind, Totem Rainmakers come to mind.  Lovely build quality, nice bass, exceptional imaging, but for some the tweeter can be considered bright.  I lived with their spiritual cousin (the Totem Rokk) for 10 years, so I know I could live with that tweeter, as long as it is paired with Class A amplification (I used a Sugden integrated).  Once I sold the Sugden, and started to experiment with Tripath amps, I ended up quickly selling off the Totems, and have found sound I really like - Do It Yourself open baffle speakers that are high efficiency, with Class A tube amp.  Mind you, the build quality is trash (I am no woodworker) but in a dark room most are stunned.

The suggestions for Vandersteen and Salk are excellent too, but I would warrant that a person who loves one might not love the other.  That is the challenge in recommending speakers to someone else.

Are you located near a major city center, and could visit some high end stores, and report back on what you listened to, and what you thought?  If you can do that, perhaps that insight will make it easier to "tune" our recommendations a little.

Or, if you just want me to shoot in the dark, here are some links to speakers that are inside the budget, that you could consider:

I still recommend the Panny Receiver as an excellent solution to getting good (if not supreme) sound on a budget, and investing more of the cheese in the speakers.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207664984
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207630477
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207610000
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207450148
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207444852
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207421914
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207345379
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1207175776

Now, if it were my dough, I would really have to think about listening to some of the less traveled gear represented around AC.  There are some Horn Shoppe Horns for sale right here right now, that would be interesting too.  And used Red Wine Audio gear is coming up at times.  So too some used Omega speakers.

Depends on what you hear that you like.

Burn some discs of music you know well, and go listen to some stuff - that is my best advice.

[Ichinichi]

Mark, as a person who has also been asked for recommendations, I understand what you're saying when you say its difficult w/o an idea of the sound that person likes. Given the budget I'm on, I hope to zero in on the speaker/amp combo quickly and settle for the next few years. My real reservation about receivers is that I do not own a TV, I do not watch TV and I do not want a Home Theater for the foreseeable future (I grew up without cable and television). So I want speakers built for music, not home theaters. In particular, classical and vocals.

Some more descriptors of my preferred taste in sound:

Imaging should knock my socks off
The image should be clear and clean, there should be lots of "air", the sound should not seem muffled or stifled but not too thin and weak either!
Resolution: I want an almost tangible soundstage, to have a small part of me expect the performers to be there in front of me when I open my eyes
I want some space between me and the music, to be able to take in the entire stage
But not feel as though I'm sitting too far back such that the music seems removed or thin
Music ought to be organic; there should be warmth and body - there should be some "organicity" to the music
The highs should be pure and sweet, like the note of a fine crystal glass, not overly bright!
The mids warm and syrupy
And the bass, tight and full, not earthshattering, but an awesome and humbling experience

I am in Saint Louis City...the only store I've seen here is Hi-Fi-Fo-Fum on Big Bend, I might hit that up. Perhaps the GAS guys will be able to tell me of their fave stores here in STL.

[pbrstreetgang]

Just FYI the recommendation of the Panny receivers is for music. It features a good digital amp that is pretty darn good. So good I always keep one around regardless. I also used it for over a year when I was doing a job in California and didnt want to ship 90 pound amps. I used it with Magnapan MMGs ($550) direct from Maggy and they really SANG! Made me wonder why I went through all the trouble and expense of all the tweeks, and equipment I have. FWIW I probably listened more to that system than any other I have had, I didnt have a TV or know anyone out there and was too broke to do much in SF.

The Panny receivers have the ability to output 100X4 of mirrored stereo output in "Party" mode that is perfect for biamping hungry speakers like the Maggys. Another awesome feature of the Panny is direct optical or coax digital inputs. All this makes for a very versatile high powered pre with two clean high powered stereo amps. Also like others have said the Vandersteen are real good, Triangle speakers are a steal on the used market as well as anything from AV123. You can have a really good system for $1500 now a days.

[Cacophonix]

For an apt of that size, i'd suggest that you go with small 2-way bookshelf or slim floorstanders rather than larger floorstanders for they might overload your room. Totem Arro is a wonderful speaker at its used price. Pair that with a NAD integrated, and you should be set for quite sometime. You'll have some money left for the new slim devices duet too.

[mca]

Couple of great deals on Omega speakers:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1207664552

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1206983910

[mcgsxr]

Thanks for the clarifications, I appreciate that you would take the time.

My recommendation for a Panny receiver IS for music, as was caught by others, and comes from personal experience.  Over the last 3 years or so on this site, digital amps have received their fair share of press, including many threads I was responsible for.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=12992.0 -  a scant 6 page discussion about digital amps, and why one might value them
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=4991.0 - sorry, this one is HUGE...

Just a recommendation.

Your description strikes me that you might be a tube guy, and not know it yet!

Perhaps some single driver speakers and a tube amp... oh wait, now I am just recommending what I like!   

With some high efficiency speakers (like either of those Omega suggestions) this might just to the trick for your ear - usb input, 5wpc SE EL84 amp...

http://www.glow-audio.com/ - thanks Dmason.

Good luck with all the recommendations!

[nodiak]

Jolida 102b
Robin's speakers
Rythmik 12" sub. $450-500 new, but needs a box built or bought. GR Research has new 12" paper cone drivers for this that only need a 1.5 ft3 sealed box (could be a 16" cube, pretty small). The stock 12" is an aluminum cone that needs ~ 2.25 ft3 sealed box.
The first two I've never heard, but are in the realm of what you are asking for, and have good reports.
The Rythmik is not like the stereotypical sub of wall of thunder overwhelming bass. It will actually help the mains open up and accomplish the subtleties you are asking for. It can be adjusted to be inaudible until the bass notes wake it up. Or it can be adjusted to be very loud and overly big sounding (I do this for movies). Imo the bass notes it puts out are tight and succinct like good midrange's notes. I have one and it's pretty much the only piece of equipment i have no reservations about recommending.
Good luck on your choices,
Don

[Ichinichi]

newb questions:

1. what is the difference between speakers and monitors?

2. why single driver given my tastes?

3. yay for tubes!

4. i do like the look of the glow amp one...the colored glowing ring around the volume dial and the LEDs below the tubes make my "gimmick" alarms go off...