SP 3.0?

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SoundGame

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1540 on: 23 Feb 2012, 05:30 pm »
We have found the green light version sounds better  :P

james

That's because they are more environmentally friendly - "green" lights... :bounce:

Vipers

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1541 on: 24 Feb 2012, 05:02 pm »
We have found the green light version sounds better  :P
james

I hope that was scientifically conducted in blind test conditions, good to know though, SSShhh, don't tell alpha :wink:

Vipers

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1542 on: 24 Feb 2012, 05:10 pm »
You most likely are aware, but for those going to the Bristol Show this weekend....

PMC speakers will appear in 6 separate rooms this year.  And Bryston in 3 I believe. 
And What Hi-Fi Magazine has an AV room consisting of PMC /Bryston electronics in a 7.1 system.
Kyri

Hey Kyri,

I think PMC have taken over Bristol this year, I was hoping to go today, mainly to hear the BHA-1, but the drive put me off if I'm honest, here is some more info



saveloy

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1543 on: 25 Feb 2012, 11:01 pm »
Hey Vipers,

It was busier than I figured it would be.  But a good show as always.  I didn't intend on it, but I purchased a pair of PMC twenty 24s in walnut. 

I was very impressed with all of the PMC & Bryston rooms. 

Kyri

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1544 on: 26 Feb 2012, 11:17 am »
Hey Vipers,

It was busier than I figured it would be.  But a good show as always.  I didn't intend on it, but I purchased a pair of PMC twenty 24s in walnut. 

I was very impressed with all of the PMC & Bryston rooms. 

Kyri

Hi Kyri

So give us some of your impressions of the show - did you take any pictures?

Starting a new thread.

James

saveloy

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1545 on: 26 Feb 2012, 01:32 pm »
Hi James,

I normally attend on a Sunday, so I was expecting Saturday to be quieter.  It was not.  Foot traffic aside it was another great Bristol show.
There wasn't so much in the way of high end releases this year.  I noticed a fair number of new speakers. 
The new Spendor floor standers confused me, in that they didn't have their traditional sound.  They were actually quite cold & harsh.
Rega had a set of transmission lines, which were warm & lovely.
Usher had a super sounding set of diamond tweetered floor standers.
There was a great deal of Naim amplification around.  I counted at least 5 rooms.  One of which was the Focal room. 
Again, not impressive at all.  The sound was very muddy. Every room in which I heard Naim equipment (Spendor included) sounded different, of course.  But none of them sounded quite right.  I don't know if it is a partnering issue, because I have heard each manufacturer in isolation and enjoyed the sound.  Very strange. 
Focal did have their first set of headphones there.  At £200 I thought they presented a great buy.  Beautifully finished and the great sound quality I know can come from Focal.
Leema always impress me & this year had the lower end components.  A very dry and punchy presentation.  Thankfully they are not the kind of company whose sound has huge disparity between price points. Their signature sound is easily noticeable, whether one is listening to their top end equipment or their entry level DAC. 
I didn't manage to get into the What Hi-Fi room, to hear the 11 speaker PMC/Bryston set up.  I did, however, sit in the SP3/PMC twenty series room.  Stunning!
What really impressed me, above and beyond the soundstage and the dynamics, was the quality and effortless cohesion to the sound.  It was by far the best AV set up I heard on the day.  It was quite likely the most expensive, though.
In the 2 channel PMC/Bryston rooms the BHA-1 sat in one and the twenty series/BDP-1/BDA-1/BP26 & 4B SST2 in the other. 
They begun with the twenty 21.  Initially I thought they were OK.  But another track or two and Woah!
They are small, but a speaker that small has no right sounding so large.  The dynamics came from no where, too.
I had a good chat (as always) with Keith and Tom.  Informative & friendly they always are.  I wanted to hear the twenty 24s, so Tom told me he would set them up for me nearer the end of the day.  Back I ran with 15 minutes to the end & I had the room to myself.  Immediately I could hear how much smoother and more cohesive this series is compared to the i series.  They do have a more dry bass, but it is just as extended.  The big plus for me is the far greater midrange warmth & clarity and......timing!  Boy are they great here.  My ears were astounded with their transient attack and the way in which they dealt with dynamics. 
In terms of where they sit in the PMC range, sound quality wise, I think they are far closer to the fact range than they are to the i series.  In fact(excuse the pun), I think they are a superb integration of the two.  Timing, smoothness & cohesion of the fact range, along with the most of the bass warmth & extension of the i series. 

Kyri




SHV

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1546 on: 28 Feb 2012, 12:13 am »
A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?

Steve

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1547 on: 28 Feb 2012, 12:21 am »
A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?

Steve

I do not think so Steve - I will ask.

james

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1548 on: 28 Feb 2012, 03:01 pm »
A question from out in left field....Can the gain be independently adjusted for the main and "zone" outputs?

Steve

Hi Steve,

From engineering:

Main and zone outputs have fully independent level controls.

SHV

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1549 on: 28 Feb 2012, 03:03 pm »
Hi Steve,

From engineering:

Main and zone outputs have fully independent level controls.

Just planning ahead. 

I couldn't visualize how to use the "zone" option without independent level control but couldn't determine if this was possible from reading the manual.

Steve

SoundGame

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1550 on: 1 Mar 2012, 04:04 pm »
There has been a little discussion on how the SP3 (pure direct) compares with the BP26 as a stereo preamplier, with some saying that it is very comparable.  I don't doubt that at all, at least from reviewing the specifications but I did notice the following:

SP3 THD is .0013% (Bypass @ 2V out), lower than the BP26 .0015% (@ 3V out)
SP3 SNR is 110dB (Bypass @ 1V input, 22kHz) better than BP26 103db (1V input, 20 - 20kHz)

So the SP3 seems to better the BP26 but the specs are based on slightly different parameters. 

Questions:
1. Why are the SP3 specs for THD not based on 3V output and for SNR, not quoted over the 20 - 20,000 bandwidth?

2. If the SP3 is a better preamp design than the BP26, BP16 and BP6 - can we expect this new design to make it's way into all Bryston preamplifier circuits?

3. Is the SP3 analogue power supply / transformer and filter capacitors more similar to those used in the MPS-2 or rather the BP6 or neither?  Is this an improved power supply design over what's used on other Bryston preamplifiers and can we expect to see this make it's way into other Bryston preamplier products?



Secon : but might ask whether the performance of the SP3 as a stereo preamplifier would be better likened to that of the BP6 vs. the BP26.  The reason being that the BP6 has an integrated power supply for the preamp, much like in the SP3, aknowledging that the SP3 provides balanced outs like the BP26, whereas the BP6 does not.

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1551 on: 1 Mar 2012, 04:18 pm »
There has been a little discussion on how the SP3 (pure direct) compares with the BP26 as a stereo preamplier, with some saying that it is very comparable.  I don't doubt that at all, at least from reviewing the specifications but I did notice the following:

SP3 THD is .0013% (Bypass @ 2V out), lower than the BP26 .0015% (@ 3V out)
SP3 SNR is 110dB (Bypass @ 1V input, 22kHz) better than BP26 103db (1V input, 20 - 20kHz)

So the SP3 seems to better the BP26 but the specs are based on slightly different parameters. 

Questions:
1. Why are the SP3 specs for THD not based on 3V output and for SNR, not quoted over the 20 - 20,000 bandwidth?

2. If the SP3 is a better preamp design than the BP26, BP16 and BP6 - can we expect this new design to make it's way into all Bryston preamplifier circuits?

3. Is the SP3 analogue power supply / transformer and filter capacitors more similar to those used in the MPS-2 or rather the BP6 or neither?  Is this an improved power supply design over what's used on other Bryston preamplifiers and can we expect to see this make it's way into other Bryston preamplier products?



Secon : but might ask whether the performance of the SP3 as a stereo preamplifier would be better likened to that of the BP6 vs. the BP26.  The reason being that the BP6 has an integrated power supply for the preamp, much like in the SP3, aknowledging that the SP3 provides balanced outs like the BP26, whereas the BP6 does not.

Hi Soundgame - the circuitry in the SP3 gain stages are slightly different and so far I think the feedback is favoring the SP3 as equal to or sometimes superior to the other Bryston preamps. it is not always easy to answer why as so many things are interrelated and the sum is greater than the parts sometimes.

I do feel confident though in saying to our customers that if you want an integrated Stereo and Surround system then SP3 will certainly fit the bill.

james

SoundGame

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1552 on: 1 Mar 2012, 05:05 pm »
Hi Soundgame - the circuitry in the SP3 gain stages are slightly different and so far I think the feedback is favoring the SP3 as equal to or sometimes superior to the other Bryston preamps. it is not always easy to answer why as so many things are interrelated and the sum is greater than the parts sometimes.

I do feel confident though in saying to our customers that if you want an integrated Stereo and Surround system then SP3 will certainly fit the bill.

james


james

So James, the big question is which do YOU prefer to use for dedicated 2-channel listening and WHY?

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1553 on: 1 Mar 2012, 05:13 pm »
So James, the big question is which do YOU prefer to use for dedicated 2-channel listening and WHY?

Tough one because they have slightly different presentations. So I do not think it comes down to better - more one of difference.

 The BP preamps are a touch more forward and have a bit more 'prescence' to them. The SP3 sounds a little more distant and laid back. I think if you feel your system is a touch reticent you would prefer the BP Series of preamps and if you felt your system was too forward or in your face you would probably like the SP-3.

James

SoundGame

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1554 on: 1 Mar 2012, 05:17 pm »
Tough one because they have slightly different presentations. So I do not think it comes down to better - more one of difference.

 The BP preamps are a touch more forward and have a bit more 'prescence' to them. The SP3 sounds a little more distant and laid back. I think if you feel your system is a touch reticent you would prefer the BP Series of preamps and if you felt your system was too forward or in your face you would probably like the SP-3.

James

This is great feeback to get.  Thanks for sharing your personal impressions James.  :thumb:

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1555 on: 3 Mar 2012, 12:23 pm »
From: Greg
Sent: March-02-12 11:01 PM
To: James Tanner
Subject: SP3

Hi James

I have had some time now with the SP3. It sounds absolutely great.

Two things I didn't expect:

1) For most, perhaps all, inputs, the SP3 will do the crossover for the sub. The sub seems better integrated and coherent now than it did with the SP2.

2) The SP3 can route 2 different audio sources to 2 different zones, and video to 2 zones in parallel. The primary audio zone can drive a 7 channel amp, plus (2) other stereo down mixed amps, which means I can watch a movie in surround, and in the kitchen, at the same time.

Super versatility and superb sound.

Thanks



From: James Tanner
Sent: March-03-12 7:08 AM
To: 'Greg Anderson'
Subject: RE: SP3

Hi Greg,

That’s great news - thanks for the feedback. I think the SP3 is gaining the reputation of "BEST SOUND" but limited FRILLS - which suits me just fine.

James

alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1556 on: 3 Mar 2012, 11:24 pm »
hi, folks!

SP3 introduced by Brian Russell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEeoen5n8o

James,

if i understand the interview correctly then Brian said that the DSP board is bought somewhere else (if so, from where?). was it impossible for Bryston to develop their own?

al.

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1557 on: 4 Mar 2012, 12:37 pm »
Hi Folks

Have not seen it yet but word has it the SP-3 got a review in the very prestigious UK magazine 'Home Cinema Choice' and received a 5 Star rating for Sound and Design but only 2 stars for features.

I am OK with that :thumb:

James


« Last Edit: 4 Mar 2012, 03:38 pm by James Tanner »

mv038856

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1558 on: 4 Mar 2012, 04:14 pm »
...if i understand the interview correctly then Brian said that the DSP board is bought somewhere else (if so, from where?). was it impossible for Bryston to develop their own?

al.

Hi Al,

Bryston has been using Digital Audio Engines (DAE) from Momentum Data Systems (www.mds.com) in all its preamplifier/processors, i.e. from the Motorola equipped SP-1 to the TI equipped SP1.7/2/3.

I think, developing such a digital board yourself from the scratch would just not be economically feasible for the quantities Bryston is producing and selling. Considering the problems and challenges associated with HDMI (the switching board is also provided by Momentum Data Systems), I think Bryston has made the best decision, not to invest engineering ressources into building such components themselves, if you are not convinced that you can do it better than an OEM at a reasonable price. By purchasing it from an OEM, the OEM can acchieve economies of scale and we end up with a product that is superior through Bryston's expertise in analog audio and is financially still in reach for a number of audiophiles, subcategory "Brystonites". ;) When using OEM parts, Brystons has been known to either modify them themselves or have the OEM produce a special modified Bryston variant of the standard OEM part, if memory serves me right. I think the soundcards in the BDP-1 are an example for a modified component.

James has always pointed out that it is the analog and the power supply part that most distinguishes a Bryston from other manufacturers that might have more bells and whistles, some more bit and kHz or a more "fancy" newer generation DAC chip.

Hope this helps and answers your question!

Cheers!

Markus

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1559 on: 4 Mar 2012, 04:19 pm »
Hi Al,

Bryston has been using Digital Audio Engines (DAE) from Momentum Data Systems (www.mds.com) in all its preamplifier/processors, i.e. from the Motorola equipped SP-1 to the TI equipped SP1.7/2/3.

I think, developing such a digital board yourself from the scratch would just not be economically feasible for the quantities Bryston is producing and selling. Considering the problems and challenges associated with HDMI (the switching board is also provided by Momentum Data Systems), I think Bryston has made the best decision, not to invest engineering ressources into building such components themselves, if you are not convinced that you can do it better than an OEM at a reasonable price. By purchasing it from an OEM, the OEM can acchieve economies of scale and we end up with a product that is superior through Bryston's expertise in analog audio and is financially still in reach for a number of audiophiles, subcategory "Brystonites". ;) When using OEM parts, Brystons has been known to either modify them themselves or have the OEM produce a special modified Bryston variant of the standard OEM part, if memory serves me right. I think the soundcards in the BDP-1 are an example for a modified component.

James has always pointed out that it is the analog and the power supply part that most distinguishes a Bryston from other manufacturers that might have more bells and whistles, some more bit and kHz or a more "fancy" newer generation DAC chip.

Hope this helps and answers your question!

Cheers!

Markus

Well said Marcus - thanks.  Reinventing the wheel only adds additional costs (HDMI licensing for instance) whereas modifiying circuitry around generic chips reaps huge rewards in performance.

james