[TheChairGuy]

Jeez - the Technics/Origin Live Illustrious/Denon DL-160vdH sounds great today.

I think both cartridge and tonearm wiring (more likely the dialectric) needing some signal passed thru it to fully cook.  Truly, the bass sounds juicy but taught/tight, the treble sounds natural (but, it's been a few weeks to compare to the natural treble of the Grado against it) and the midrange just flows and sounds right.

Dynamics have the right contrast, overhang/decay and startling nature that reminds one of real or live (finally). Everything is fulsome sounding and the music is flowing quite naturally. It just seemed to creep up on me today.

I am not gifted with exceptional hearing - it's just that I have music on all day long while I toil in my office (aka listening room) and sitting only 4-5' from the speakers means I pick nuances up quickly.  I can't always tell what is wrong (or why), but I know when it ain't right.  Well, this system took a long time to sound right....it sounds best today (and my cheery mood today is not reason enough for it sounding this good  )

I was forewarned to give the vdH profiled cartridge a long break-in, but I'd never have imagined that it would have taken some 300 hours to set it's sound in place. The vdH stylus is one of the longer lived types out there - reportedly hugely benefiting from long break in times to refine its' stylus.  It may have actually been retarded in it's progress by liberal application of LAST Stylast formula...a chemical I have used for almost 30 years that elongates the length of time you get with a stylus by up to 10x.  Frankly, I have no idea if it does, one does not hear any benefit from using it immediately after application, so you're hoping to hell your $40 is well spent.

btw, my bottle of Stylast is still half full...and it's the one I bought when I was 18 or so.  So, it's pretty cost effective 

I probably have 500 hours on the OL Illustrious tonearm now...maybe that benefited equally from the long break in (?)

I don't know - I just know it sounds sound really fine today.

KAB is about back in production on the outboard power supplies now and it should be shipped shortly to me.....looking forward to hearing how and how much $300 in power supply and strobe disabler mods can improve things further.

Finally, I think the Technics/Origin Live Illustrious/Denon DL-160vdH (loaded at 2.3K I think I have it) bests the 10x cheaper JVC QL-F6/Pickering XLZ-7500s combo.  Hallelujah. 



John

[TheChairGuy]

All right, so I got the KAB strobe disabler and outboard power supply today...and hooked them up (I also bought the Hi-Fi News Set-up disc, too)

Non-techies gather 'round...if I can do, you almost certainly can.  The SX-1200 strobe disabler is all wire nutted (no solder) and Kevin Barrett, fair proprietor over at KAB, can package a couple wire nuts with the outboard supply so that one need not solder this either.  Just tell him if you need it this way. 

Interject: Kevin was just as relaxed and easy-going as the first time I called him a couple years ago and bought something.  He is not at all some slick-talking marketing guy....he's quite patient and easy to talk to.  Really, two thumbs way up him 

The strobe disabler took me about 75 minutes to do.....stripping the wiring was the most tedious part (aside from being very slow and careful reading the black & white instruction booklet). 

The outboard motor took maybe 30 minutes.....really cheesepuff stuff here.

Both could have been done faster if...

1.  I was capable 

2.  I had done one before (simple, once one is done)

3.  The instruction book had color pics....pictorially showing black and white pics and telling you to snip orange and brown wires here and their would be done easier by the uninformed (me!) with color pics.  But, color pics are a bit more to copy out for purchasers.

4.  My 4 year old wasn't pestering me with questions 

Okay, so how does it sound....stunning   The closed in/small soundstage of the Technics SL-1200, which I had assumed was just a deficit of direct drive tables versus belt drives, is WAY bigger.  It also has that relaxed, easy going demeanor of a few of the belt drive tables I have had.  It skinnies up a LOT of the difference in better belt drive tables....and makes it sound more like them (in all those good ways) while retaining that pinpoint sound of a deck that keeps excellent speed under all circumstances.

I'm listening to Pink Floyd 'Dark Side of the Moon' now and it just sounds huge and layered now - front to back is WAY bigger as is side to side for me. The bass shots (drums, especially) are very BIG now.

I get the idea that the best is yet to come, too, as it all breaks-in...it sounds a bit 'stiff' as new equipment often does.  Perhaps 25 more hours on all the wiring (including the toroid inside the new power supply) needs more time.

So, there ya' go....buy a gently used Technics for $300.00....add another $300.00 for the KAB strobe disabler and outboard power supply.  Go get the KAB silicone trough for $150.00....4 brass toes and a 3" thick maple cutting board and your favorite $100-or-o cartridge. 

I don't believe a better value could exist in turntable-dom for $1000.00 today (mine is actually quite a bit more as I have an Origin Live armboard and pricy OL arm....whether it is worthwhile or not is for others to decide that have a good stock arm to use  ).....tho if I hear one that does, I'll be all over it.  However, I am so satisfied with this rig now I think I'm gonna' play it for a while and enjoy 

Regards, John

John 

[2bigears]

   sounds like your having too much fun with that tt John. i am real interested hoe the tt would sound with the mods you have and stock arm with good wires as in the M5G model.i will mod my tt with those mods you have and see what it does from the stock state.does Kevin have the silicone baths in stock.?? i really like these tt's also,very good value.

[TheChairGuy]

  sounds like your having too much fun with that tt John. i am real interested hoe the tt would sound with the mods you have and stock arm with good wires as in the M5G model.i will mod my tt with those mods you have and see what it does from the stock state.does Kevin have the silicone baths in stock.?? i really like these tt's also,very good value.

Hi 2BE,

KAB/Kevin had a long wait to re-supply the Outboard Motor supplies (about 3 weeks), but they are in and ready to ship now (strobe disabler was in stock when I contacted him 3 weeks ago).  I don't know about the silicone troughs, I hadn't asked as I don't have the stock arm.

I don't know if you did anything with the M5G you have....but I found using brass cones (they were like $25 /4 on ebay and are adjustable, made in Taiwan - very nice - Parts Express has the same ones cheaper even) pointed down right into a thcik block of maple improves the deck's sounds a lot over anything else I tried.  My deck had mashed feet, too, so I cannot compare versus stock feet....but it is likely a lot better than that, too.

Finally, get an Isoplat sub-mat for platter damping (or make a mat from EAR Isodamp as I have done even cheaper) and lay a Herbie's Way Excelllent Mat on top (for excellent mating to the record itself).

All told, the SL-1200 series is really a killer deal.

John

[TheChairGuy]

Big dividends in wearing in the new motor supply - just letting it spin for several hours while listening to CD or FM is loosening up everything - making the sonics sound more natural 

Is it caps burning in or wiring (including the new toroid in the power supply) or that elusive 'something else', but I can tell something is rapidly changing in the presentation of the rig.

It's overall, quieter now.  Some lower level sounds, obscured in the noise of the deck previously, have emerged (especially near the margins of each tune - beginning and end).  Fade-outs are heard a bit longer and the occasional fade-in comes on rather more noticeably now, too.  Lower level (smaller) sounds can be heard more distinctly too...adding additional complexity to a few albums I hadn't known existed previously.

As well, most sounds (bass most notably to me) are bigger, a bit bolder, more thunderous in effect.

Again, I cannot tell how much is the result of removing the micro-pulses of the onboard strobe disabler......or the outboard motor supply that adds additional capacitance, a larger toroid and tighter/stiffer regulated voltage into the deck (eliminating the on board toroid - all of it's accumulated noises including a dose of EMI).  I suspect the outboard motor supply to be the more important of the two. 

This is a worthwhile upgrade for $300 on the Technics - thumbs up from me for it's reasonable cost and considerable effectiveness 

John

[Wayner]

Your up awefully early to watch your platter go round in circles (while listening to CD's  ).

Wouldn't it be cool if someone made a CD player that worked like a turntable (I mean like with the reader head mounted to something that looked like a tonearm?

Maybe I should go back to bed.

 

[TheChairGuy]

Actually, meant to write my post last night but ran outta' time....woke up early, checked the news, posted, and then went back for a snooze 

I love Saturdays 

John

[TheChairGuy]

So, ultimately I found that other tables sounded better than the uber-modded Technics SL-1200 and I caught a bit os crap for saying so

But, my example of a Technics is beat to hell and, I assume, needs a new spindle assembly (main bearing)

So, I've punted the thought around for 3 years now and I finally whipped out my credit card for $35 and bought one from KABUSA.com.

Inside of 2 weeks I hope to have it, install it and re-evaluate. At that point, nearly everything that can be traded out to improve sound will have and I can decide definitely if it's audiophile quality or not (to me)

If I like it - I win.  If I still don't - I feel better selling it with updated parts throughout rather than trying to sell if not optimal.

Anywayz.....I'll continue this moribund topic shortly, hopefully 

[doug s.]

So, ultimately I found that other tables sounded better than the uber-modded Technics SL-1200 and I caught a bit os crap for saying so

But, my example of a Technics is beat to hell and, I assume, needs a new spindle assembly (main bearing)

So, I've punted the thought around for 3 years now and I finally whipped out my credit card for $35 and bought one from KABUSA.com.

Inside of 2 weeks I hope to have it, install it and re-evaluate. At that point, nearly everything that can be traded out to improve sound will have and I can decide definitely if it's audiophile quality or not (to me)

If I like it - I win.  If I still don't - I feel better selling it with updated parts throughout rather than trying to sell if not optimal.

Anywayz.....I'll continue this moribund topic shortly, hopefully 

personally, if it were me, i wouldn't bother even spending another cent on that deck, let alone $35.  i'd simply write it off and find another known undamaged example.  i have heard this deck set up properly - w/no tweaks - and it can sound really nice...

ymmv,

doug s.

[TheChairGuy]

It's the learning experience for me, Doug. That's worth $35 to me. 

I've already wired this one up for KAB outboard motor and strobe disabler and cut the holes to take the (either) JELCO or Rega mount arms.

Their mostly indestructible save the main spindle which requires replacement after substantial use as this one has been thru. 

However it turns out, for $35 more and may be 2 hours of my time to once again entirely set it up and evaluate it - I'll know whether it passes the audiophile grade for me. Given the great sound from the VPI Classic these days - i think it'll be tough going; but I leave a more open mind to it than many would think I do 

[doug s.]

It's the learning experience for me, Doug. That's worth $35 to me. 

I've already wired this one up for KAB outboard motor and strobe disabler and cut the holes to take the (either) JELCO or Rega mount arms.

Their mostly indestructible save the main spindle which requires replacement after substantial use as this one has been thru. 

However it turns out, for $35 more and may be 2 hours of my time to once again entirely set it up and evaluate it - I'll know whether it passes the audiophile grade for me. Given the great sound from the VPI Classic these days - i think it'll be tough going; but I leave a more open mind to it than many would think I do 

ya, if the only thing wrong w/your deck is the spindle assembly...

doug s.

[AudioSoul]

  I have been reading this thread and I feel like I'm in bazzaro world here. The Chairguy is the grand wizard an everyone is his subject hanging on to every word he has to say. Does anyone have any common sense here? I guess that why I hardly visit AudioCircle.
Oh well to each their own......

[doug s.]

  I have been reading this thread and I feel like I'm in bazzaro world here. The Chairguy is the grand wizard an everyone is his subject hanging on to every word he has to say. Does anyone have any common sense here? I guess that why I hardly visit AudioCircle.
Oh well to each their own......

at a/c, there's many opinions on many topics. and even many opinions on the same topic, as is the case here.  in fact, tcg is not the grand wizard - he's simply throwing his two cents worth into the mix, and those w/similar opinions, those w/other opinions, or those yust interested in this particular topic are following along - or not - as the case may be.  as you said - and i couldn't have said it better - "to each their own".   

ymmv,

doug s.

[neobop]

AudioSoul,
This thread is one persons odyssey with a damaged table. It goes back to 1/08 and was just resurrected. If there are conclusions about the table in general, that you think are due to the damage and not representative, you're free to say so.
neo

[TheChairGuy]

Audiosoul,

Constructive comments, whether alternative or sympathetic, are welcome at Vinyl Circle....whoever is the author of the topic (it merely just happens to be me, the Facilitator, of this circle)

But, snide remarks and potshots at fellow vinyl enthusiasts won't be tolerated.

If that's the sum total of your comments on the Technics SL-1200....please allow the door to close on your ass HARD on the way out and find another forum to spew your venom at.

I would defend any poster, as Fac, that took obvious time and care to write out a topic such as this.  So, while it happens to be me this time - it would likely be another if I don't take you to task here.

Your views on equipment are welcome at the Vinyl Circle; your opinion as armchair Sociologist are not appreciated and won't be tolerated.

John

[xsb7244]

Did TheChairGuy install the new spindle assembly ?