Technics SL-1200 MK II / Origin Live Illustrious Mk. III tonearm

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Wayner

Belts for the Empire can be gotten at www.LPgear.com. These are the correct lenght and have precision ground thickness. Unfortunately, they are $30.50.

The Empire arm (990) can be removed by loosening up a set screw. The hole will accept a 3/4" arm shaft (I think a Audioquest PT-9 will drop right in with no mods.

Wayner

doug s.

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Doug,

Two questions since you keep reminding us about wintage Empires. One, how hard is it to change arms? Two, do any arms fit right into the Empire mounting hole? Three (okay I lied), do you know a reliable source for belts? Say hi to Sid for me.

Scott
hi scott,

on the older unsuspended empires, changing arms is easy - yust mount the arm holder onto the deck at the correct position.  you may have to drill a new hole or three, &/or screw on a slab of wood or the material of your choice, if your arm doesn't have the right vta adjustment, &/or is 12" or 16" long or something.   :wink:

w/the suspended empire's, as is mentioned, if you have an arm w/a 3/4" shaft, mounting shouldn't be an issue.  i know my o-l rb250 won't fit my empire 498 unless i hog out the hole in the suspension where the arm attaches...

here's the link i always reference, for folks interested in tweaking an empire:

http://cognitivevent.com/av_empire.html

re: belts, i suspect you can find one that will fit the empires from mcm electronics for a few dollars - i have one i sourced from them for my oracle, & it works perfectly.shipping was more than the cost of the belt, so i ordered a couple.   :D

on a completely different tack, if you have the tools, why not "roll your own" turntable.  i would love to try one of these - the platter shaft is an intake valve courtesy of a harley davidson shovelhead engine.   :green:

http://www.altmann.haan.de/turntable/


doug s.

TheChairGuy

Allright, just to re-iterate clearly for all, there is no motor or speed control issue with my, or any, SL-1200 that I can detect. No 'etch' or anything now.

After 10+ hours of re-run-in time, the dialectric in the tonearm cable (I don't believe wire settles in, it's the dialectric material I think) settled in and it now sounds controlled and sexy in here.  If there is any want to move back to the JVC...it's likely only because it has the convenience of semi-auto (liftoff) and can carry the Grado and Pickerings better (lighter arm than the Origin Live)  8)

The question of whether the stock Technics arm (which, frankly, is machined and is much more solid feeling then the stock JVC arm I have on my QL-F6) or the VTA/ tonearm mount, or the inner wiring or grounding scheme is to be blamed for any supposed shortcoming of this deck to any pricier brethren - will be left to another to compare.

A direct drive deck is inherently less detached from motor noise....so it's all a trade-off with belt or woodsyi, errr rim, drive competition :wink: 

Is the feedback and rumble low enough with the SL-1200 for it not to matter overall AND/OR will a belt drive model attain 'good enough' speed regulation to not affect pitch in playback.  That debate will rage for as long as there are folks spinning vinyl  :roll:

It is interesting that even Matsushita themselves see some improvement to the SL-1200 with the introduction of the Mark 6 (not available in US to my knowledge yet)....which features the OFC wiring of the Mk. V, improved body damping (thicker top plinth perhaps?) and improved tonearm mount:

http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=2479

Of course, it's probably an attractive opportunity for them to add $10 in 'upgrades' and get another $100.00 at wholesale for them  :wink:

(EDIT: lcrim, et al, I'll be sending this in for an inspection to Kevin at KAB...and for the outboard motor and strobe disabler mods soon, hopefully, when Kevin answers email from me)

Regards, John

Scottdazzle

Doug,

Two questions since you keep reminding us about wintage Empires. One, how hard is it to change arms? Two, do any arms fit right into the Empire mounting hole? Three (okay I lied), do you know a reliable source for belts? Say hi to Sid for me.

Scott
hi scott,

on the older unsuspended empires, changing arms is easy - yust mount the arm holder onto the deck at the correct position.  you may have to drill a new hole or three, &/or screw on a slab of wood or the material of your choice, if your arm doesn't have the right vta adjustment, &/or is 12" or 16" long or something.   :wink:

w/the suspended empire's, as is mentioned, if you have an arm w/a 3/4" shaft, mounting shouldn't be an issue.  i know my o-l rb250 won't fit my empire 498 unless i hog out the hole in the suspension where the arm attaches...

here's the link i always reference, for folks interested in tweaking an empire:

http://cognitivevent.com/av_empire.html

re: belts, i suspect you can find one that will fit the empires from mcm electronics for a few dollars - i have one i sourced from them for my oracle, & it works perfectly.shipping was more than the cost of the belt, so i ordered a couple.   :D

on a completely different tack, if you have the tools, why not "roll your own" turntable.  i would love to try one of these - the platter shaft is an intake valve courtesy of a harley davidson shovelhead engine.   :green:

http://www.altmann.haan.de/turntable/


doug s.

OMG! Someone has way too much free time to make a diy table and arm! I'd love to hear it.  Thanks for the Empire tips.

Wayner

John,

You did say you put an older cartridge in the beast right? My first thoughts on that is maybe the stylus and its elastomeric bond perhaps stiffened up from non-use and with a little break-in time, got a little more compliant, more responsive to the groove machine.

Just another thought that rolled on down like someone put in a quarter.

Me.

ohenry

I'm glad the SL1200 is finally making music.  I've been following this and have been perplexed as to what you've been experiencing.  I will admit that if I had that arm, I'd HAVE to get an OL table for it to see what all the fuss is about.  But I understand your current trek using DD since speed stability is paramount to you.

I bet you've often wondered how the OL arm would work in a nice SP10 setup... me too.  Think of all the cool stuff you could use for plinths, but think of all the cash you could spend experimenting until you got the right one.  :green:

TheChairGuy

I'm glad the SL1200 is finally making music.  I've been following this and have been perplexed as to what you've been experiencing.  I will admit that if I had that arm, I'd HAVE to get an OL table for it to see what all the fuss is about.  But I understand your current trek using DD since speed stability is paramount to you.

I bet you've often wondered how the OL arm would work in a nice SP10 setup... me too.  Think of all the cool stuff you could use for plinths, but think of all the cash you could spend experimenting until you got the right one.  :green:

Hey Henry - I have looked so many times at this ad on Audiogon I'm bleery eyed....almost went for it the other day when the Technics was sounding kinda' crappy (glad I didn't as it is singing nicely now): http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1222618803


Quote from: Wayner
John,

You did say you put an older cartridge in the beast right? My first thoughts on that is maybe the stylus and its elastomeric bond perhaps stiffened up from non-use and with a little break-in time, got a little more compliant, more responsive to the groove machine.

Just another thought that rolled on down like someone put in a quarter.

Me.

Yeah, sure, could be part of the 'change'...I choose the cartridge as it's among the lower range of cartridges I have for compliance (14.5gram arm). It's never been a fave, but it all sounds good now. There definitely could be a contributing factor of the old suspension opening up a bit.

The icky sound experienced a couple days ago was mostly reminiscent of the first (frustrating) 200 hours with this tonearm....crummy bass, phasey sounding, veiled, etc., all things experienced with wiring and teflon dialectrics (nothing ever noted with cheaper wire using plastic - another plus for buying cheap cabling besides saving one's wallet - no break in times)  :)

John

TheChairGuy

So, I just ordered the KAB outboard motor supply and strobe disabler....Kevin doesn't work on 'junker' decks, so it's partial-DIY now to find the rest of the potential for the SL-1200.

Removing the transformer from the deck is just sensible...less EMI and vibrations.  Things should get better just from that.  If somehow it does inject a stronger jolt of regulated voltage to the speed controller, that should improve pitch to an even higher degree.  The info on all this is on KABUSA's site...not to re-hash it.

The kicker was when he informed me neither requires soldering...just the aptitude to disassemble the Technics and put it back together again.  As I've done that 4-5x now, I qualified :D  But, I don't solder (nor care to learn at this point in my life).

I also bought a new version of the venerable HiFi News and Record Review setup disk...with universal protractor.  Hopefully, all of this will work to improve things even further.  The deck is singing sweetly now :drums:

I really do have to say I like the way Kevin does business.  He's real low key, open, honest and informative (without being uber-authoritative).  Even his freight policy is very realistic - 8lbs and 3000 miles costs $14.50 or so.  Very fair.

Anyhow, with the exception of the stupidly costly tonearm I have - I'm looking forward to seeing if a $150 junker SL-1200, $80 tonearm board, $300 in motor supply and strobe disabler mods, and another $300 in brass toes, maple block, sub and platter mats will exceed any previous effort I've had the pleasure of using.  I suspect it might.

Hey, one of you guys with a stock tonearm...go buy the OL or Sound Support Rega tonearm board and fit a Rega to it and tell us if is sounds better than the stock Rega tonearm.  Unfortunately, tho this was one of the reasons I bought the deck in the first place - the seller decided to pack mine like a pig for the 3000 miles ride and I never had a Technics arm that worked.

doug s.

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...Hey, one of you guys with a stock tonearm...go buy the OL or Sound Support Rega tonearm board and fit a Rega to it and tell us if is sounds better than the stock Rega tonearm.  Unfortunately, tho this was one of the reasons I bought the deck in the first place - the seller decided to pack mine like a pig for the 3000 miles ride and I never had a Technics arm that worked.
john, i have followed this question over the past several years, (including the thread you posted to, over at the winyl engine), & the results are clear:  the results are not clear.   :lol:  some folks like swapping the arm out; others prefer getting the kabusa re-wire & damper mods on the stock arm.  so...  it seems you will have to get a stock arm & try it yourself, cuz your opinions may differ from others...

doug s.

jmpiwonka

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doug s. why do you always substitute W's for V's in your posts?

Wayner

He's German.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

W

woodsyi

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Hey doug,

Got a SL-1200 lying around somewhere?  I am curious and I just want to hear for myself.  I got a Graham Phantom arm coming and just received a Soundsmith retipped (fine-line) ZYX.  It will be fun to have a TT shoot out.   Oracle, Teres, Basis, Technics -- what do you think? 

woodsyi

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doug s. why do you always substitute W's for V's in your posts?


Was ist los?  :lol: :lol:

doug s.

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doug s. why do you always substitute W's for V's in your posts?

years ago, i had turkish roomies.  shared a house w/them for almost 3 years...

they always pronounced v sounds like w.  actually, they usually could only make the w sound when they should have made the v sound.  go figure.  anyways, i picked that up from them...

doug s.

doug s.

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Hey doug,

Got a SL-1200 lying around somewhere?  I am curious and I just want to hear for myself.  I got a Graham Phantom arm coming and just received a Soundsmith retipped (fine-line) ZYX.  It will be fun to have a TT shoot out.   Oracle, Teres, Basis, Technics -- what do you think? 
i wish, actually...  it's been a while since i heard an sl1200.  i do have a nice empire 498 that i need to get set up, w/an extra o-l rb250 arm.  i have a grace 727 arm that i think will drop right in, but the o-l rb250 is better...

doug s.

Scottdazzle

Doug & Woodsyi,
I think a MAAC wintage/cheap turntable shootout is in order.  :guns: Doug has Empires, I've got a Thorens TD-125 that I think is marvelous, and Woodsyi will surely find a Technics. Then the winner could go up against Rim's rim drive  :lol:. We could provide a valuable public service!
Scott

doug s.

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Doug & Woodsyi,
I think a MAAC wintage/cheap turntable shootout is in order.  :guns: Doug has Empires, I've got a Thorens TD-125 that I think is marvelous, and Woodsyi will surely find a Technics. Then the winner could go up against Rim's rim drive  :lol:. We could provide a valuable public service!
Scott
i sold the empire 208 so i could try a 498.  i have never tried it w/its stock 980 arm - everyone sez this is the weakest part of the deck.  i could slap a decent grace 727 arm on it now, but i really should get it machined for my o-l rb250 that i pulled from my oracle when it got replaced w/an o-l silver taper...  maybe a "shootout" would be in order.  maybe it would get me off my a** to set up my 498...   :lol:

doug s.

jmpiwonka

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doug s. why do you always substitute W's for V's in your posts?

years ago, i had turkish roomies.  shared a house w/them for almost 3 years...

they always pronounced v sounds like w.  actually, they usually could only make the w sound when they should have made the v sound.  go figure.  anyways, i picked that up from them...

doug s.

that's funny.
« Last Edit: 11 Aug 2008, 03:45 pm by jmpiwonka »

topround

Hey you wanna sell that illustrious arm?
mike

JCC

Woodsyi - How does the ZYX Soundsmith sound? I am considering the same mod.