[ted_b]

Brian,
I'm confused by your posts.  First you say that speaker builders shouldn't whine about being eval'd in less than ideal circumstances because speakers will reside in all kinds of setups (big auditoriums??).  You also said listeners are smarter than to put much credence into auditorium sound, and will make their own decisions.  Yet now you say that you are not a fan of that auditorium setup either and "If someone buys a speaker because it sounded great in the auditorium, well, how much chance is there he'd pick the "right" speaker......."  ??  What is your point, exactly?

You just summed up all three of my points.  Would you rather I'd made only one?

If speaker designers shouldn't whine about auditorium setups, and you yet think auditorium setups suck too?  And that a learned listener/buyer is smarter than to have something like an auditorium sound screw up his/her evaluation, yet what chance does he have to pick the right speaker?  

To reiterate, i'm confused by your points.  Not trying to be diffilcult....guess it's me.

[BrianM]

If speaker designers shouldn't whine about auditorium setups,

Setup, singular. If it were happening all the time maybe there'd be cause for concern, but this isn't where people normally audition speakers, and as soon as people find out the venue they're likely to discount it.

and you yet think auditorium setups suck too?

Yeah, and how is that a contradiction?

  And that a learned listener/buyer is smarter than to have something like an auditorium sound screw up his/her evaluation, yet what chance does he have to pick the right speaker? 

No, what I said was, if someone picks his speaker based on hearing it in an auditorium, he probably doesn't know what he should be listening for and therefore wouldn't reliably pick the better speaker in a proper room anyway.  By way of allaying the concerns of an earnest speaker builder who appears worried about too many people misjudging his product.  The ones with brains will discount the auditorium, andthe ones without brains won't reliably pick his product over an inferior one.  Or would hear it in a treated room and decide to buy it for its looks.  If your business model requires appealing to a bunch of knuckleheads who don't know the first thing about appraising a loudspeaker's performance, you're probably not in the audiophile speaker business.  This auditorium audition sounds like a one-off event to me.

[BrianM]

Well, if you want, for example, to make your reputation for high quality, extended bass, then set up in an auditorium and have to spend a lot of time explaining why your audience hears nothing below 40Hz other than floor resonances from a hollow stage, then pray for a very knowledgable and understanding group of audiophiles who paid attention in physics class.

But Brian, who's going to go to an event like this?  I would think, audiophiles.  And how much knowledge does it really take to conclude results in a large auditorium may not mimic what you get in your living room?  I didn't need to take physics to figure that out.

[sts9fan]

All the dude wanted was to listen to some speakers...

[BrianM]

Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!

[doug s.]

i wouldn't mind hearing speakers in an auditorium-sized room.  if they were something like this - stacked ten or fifteen high per side...   

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/content/view/41/107/


prolly still need subs, tho - these are flat to only 45hz...  so, mebbe six to ten of these, per side, w/proper eq so they'll go to 20hz...   

http://www.slsloudspeakers.com/content/view/63/112/


doug s.

[Rx8man]

I talked to geardaddy and we discussed this whole thing at great length and decided to put this on hold, till a later date ? (unless someone else wants to step up on the platter)

There simply is not enough end-users or dealer networks in a semi-local area yet, this stuff is too new, so we get to wait (as usual)

Secondly, to make this whole thing FAIR ? and FUN ? we would try and do separate rooms, so everyone would get a good set-up with ancillary equipment and no speaker next to that speaker crowded effect.

The only way to really do this would be a private session (like we first intended) but we wanted to share it with others and listen to speakers to make up our own minds.

[Aether Audio]

Rx8man,

I talked to geardaddy and we discussed this whole thing at great length and decided to put this on hold, till a later date ? (unless someone else wants to step up on the platter)

Sorry to hear this guys.   Hopefully you can work it out before too long. As far as "stepping up on the platter" goes, SP Tech will do it's part.  If anybody in the midwest (or wherever for that matter) wants to stop by our shop for a listen, ya all have an open invitation.  Just get in contact with me and we'll work something out.  In fact, we just had a couple of nice local guys stop by for a listen today.  We don't have much for accommodations but at least at our place you'll get to enjoy the "auditorium" experience.  208,000 cu.ft.ought to do the job.

Take care
-Bob

[Geardaddy]

sts9fan, your post above made me cackle and is right on the $....bravo.  Let us "dudes" hear some speakers.  My wife has been privy to some of this and thinks it's all hysterical and profoundly neurotic.  She wants me to stop (but I won't of course... ) 

[sts9fan]

Just do it and F this place and the naysayers.  As long as you have a good time with the music then its the perfect setup in the perfect venue.

[Daygloworange]

Just do it and F this place and the naysayers. 

That's a little bit of a melodramatic reaction isn't it? Who is naysayers?

As long as you have a good time with the music then its the perfect setup in the perfect venue.

For a party perhaps. I believe the intention here was a (initially a "shootout") speaker showcase to highlight the audiophile performance aspects of a number of speakers. Based on that, a number of people posted their thoughts on what to expect given the original circumstances and venue, and what they might need to do to extract better results from such an endeavour.

But that's lost on a fellow like you sts9fan, which begs the question, why do you even frequent an audio forum? 

Cheers

[sts9fan]

DGO
I can tell you one thing I am not here to make money.  Secondly I think you and I read the op differently.  I read it as a bunch of people getting together to listen to some sweet speakers.  It seemed like low stress event to me.  I also believe that it was stated not to be a shootout.  Then everyone comes and makes stress.

[Carlman]

sts9fan, your post above made me cackle and is right on the $....bravo.  Let us "dudes" hear some speakers.  My wife has been privy to some of this and thinks it's all hysterical and profoundly neurotic.  She wants me to stop (but I won't of course... ) 

I understood where you were going and had an inkling that this would end up where it is now... too bad.  I'd recommend to everyone to just do what you want first and then afterwards share your results if you want.  At least then you get to learn something rather than get talked out of learning something.  You'll still get plenty of peanuts thrown at you later... because disecting someone else's experiment is so much easier than creating and organizing your own.

-C

[Daygloworange]

DGO
I can tell you one thing I am not here to make money. 

So?

This shootout doesn't financially benefit a number of people (myself included) that have chimed in with advice. But having a less than ideal representation of a gathering of speakers serves no one well. Neither the people in attendance, those who want to read about the outcome, and the manufacturers whose products are in attendance.

I don't see that as productive in any way. Do you?

As far as interpretation, you and I are probably reading it differently, yes. It started as a "shootout", then changed to a "showcase", and possibly is now being described as a get together. So it seems the goal posts have been moved a few times...

Then everyone comes and makes stress.

I call that comment making a mountain out of a molehill.

Perhaps you get worked up a little too easy. I fail to see where there was anyone gettin' all crazy on anybody.  

At least then you get to learn something rather than get talked out of learning something.... because disecting someone else's experiment is so much easier than creating and organizing your own.

People were just trying to be helpful. But it seems that, unfortunately, that is being misconstrued.

Cheers

[Carlman]

People were just trying to be helpful. But it seems that, unfortunately, that is being misconstrued.
Cheers

I can see that with some folks' comments for sure... I'm still dissapointed the event didn't happen.  And geardaddy might still be making up his mind as to what he really wants to accomplish...

It just seemed like he was so excited and wanted to talk it up... and then there was so much 'help' with which words he chose and so on that the enthusiasm went down... to the point that nothing happened. 

I would've much rather read... "Hey, we did this experiment and man, the speakers that sounded the brightest and boomiest won but when we got home, it was just the opposite!  weird, huh!?"

-C

[spence]

This is just a suggestion, but why not just leave the dealers out of the equasion. I say just get a nice group of folks together who have different speakers (and are willing to bring them) and just have a listening party. No "shootout" or "this vs. that" competition.  Just a fun time for everyone to have a listen to speakers they've never heard. Sure people are going to compare. That's a given. But that's their right and there's no way to prevent it.  I don't think the hosts have any plans on posting a "winner or loser", but posting some opinions would be interesting as well as informative to those who don't have a chance to hear a speaker they may be interested in. It wouldn't be that hard. Just start a new thread inviting those interested in bringing their own speakers and see where it leads. Don't give up yet.   

[Geardaddy]

....I think you and I read the op differently.  I read it as a bunch of people getting together to listen to some sweet speakers.  It seemed like low stress event to me.  I also believe that it was stated not to be a shootout.  Then everyone comes and makes stress.

Bingo.  All we really wanted was to listen to some sweet speakers.  I like the way that sounds...as if it came from the mouth of one of my teenage neohippie brother-in-laws (or me 20 years ago!! )

... I'm still dissapointed the event didn't happen.  And geardaddy might still be making up his mind as to what he really wants to accomplish...

Carlman, don't despair.  I was really bummed out when it was looking like this was not going to happen in the immediate future due simply to logistics.  Fortunately, many people have been peering into the future and capturing a prophetic sense of what this could or should be.  I am seeing a mini version of RMAF...a midwestern audiofest.  I still have to dialogue with a bunch of folks to see how we can do this, and it will take a while. 

As far as interpretation, you and I are probably reading it differently, yes. It started as a "shootout", then changed to a "showcase", and possibly is now being described as a get together. So it seems the goal posts have been moved a few times...

The goal posts or rather spirit of this event has not really changed.  People have had a Pavlovian response to the word shootout rather than actually read my original posting which stated:

The basic premise is to showcase emerging companies that are technologically innovative and yet small and boutique-like in their production (aka relatively unknown).  This is not a shootout in the traditional and negative sense.  I believe all 3 speaker companies are outstanding and I would be personally happy to own any of them.....I envision this as a multi-state effort as we will have representatives from audio societies in MN, WI, IL, and OH present.  I am throwing this out there prematurely to see what if any interest members of AudioCircle who live in the upper Midwest would have.  I think it will be fun and informative and a nice way to cross-pollinate.  Cheers.

p.s.  I am not a dealer for any of these lines...just an enthused end-user....

This is just a suggestion, but why not just leave the dealers out of the equation. I say just get a nice group of folks together who have different speakers (and are willing to bring them) and just have a listening party. 

Spence, I agree with this sentiment and the desire to extract potential "secondary gain" from the equation.    While this would be kool, it would also make things harder from a logistical standpoint.  I tried hard to find    exuberant end users and that was just not happening.  This still could be a possibility but makes it harder.   

[Brad]

Wasn't there a Midwest Audiofest a few years ago?
Lima, OH

[Geardaddy]

I am not sure.  MaxCast mentioned AKFest which is a 2-channel show that takes place in MI I believe.  I am going to chat with them about their experiences....

[lonewolfny42]

This is just a suggestion, but why not just leave the dealers out of the equasion. I say just get a nice group of folks together who have different speakers (and are willing to bring them) and just have a listening party. No "shootout" or "this vs. that" competition.  Just a fun time for everyone to have a listen to speakers they've never heard. Sure people are going to compare. That's a given. But that's their right and there's no way to prevent it.  I don't think the hosts have any plans on posting a "winner or loser", but posting some opinions would be interesting as well as informative to those who don't have a chance to hear a speaker they may be interested in. It wouldn't be that hard. Just start a new thread inviting those interested in bringing their own speakers and see where it leads. Don't give up yet.   

spence has a good idea....get a regional group together and you can hear many systems....and have "Rave's"...
How do you think I got to hear all these speakers......