[Geardaddy]

Hello all.  We are in the planning stages of a speaker showcase between the Intuitive Design Delta Summits, Ridge Street Audio Sasons and SP Tech Timepiece 3.0 (or one of their monitors).  I have verbal commitments from ID and RSA.  SP Tech is too busy to attend but we still hope to have a dealer or enthuisiastic end-user provide a set of speakers.  The basic premise is to showcase emerging companies that are technologically innovative and yet small and boutique-like in their production (aka relatively unknown).  This is not a shootout in the traditional and negative sense.  I believe all 3 speaker companies are outstanding and I would be personally happy to own any of them.  We do not have a specific venue or date set yet.  We are currently looking at either the Thrasher Opera House north of Madison, WI or possibly in the Chicago area.  I envision this as a multi-state effort as we will have representatives from audio societies in MN, WI, IL, and OH present.  I am throwing this out there prematurely to see what if any interest members of AudioCircle who live in the upper Midwest would have.  I think it will be fun and informative and a nice way to cross-pollinate.  Cheers.

p.s.  I am not a dealer for any of these lines...just an enthused end-user....

[seadogs1]

  Sounds like a great plan. It would be an even better plan if you could get the new Emerald Physics Speaker as part of that shoot-out. Good Luck!

[Geardaddy]

Thanks for the input.  If we are unable to drudge up something from SP Tech, we will certainly consider the Emerald Physics line....

[opaqueice]

Linkwitz Orions or Plutos would fit your criteria, although you'd have to find an end-user in the area that's willing to bring them.

[Double Ugly]

Hello all.  We are in the planning stages of a speaker shootout ....

Question... precisely who is the "We" you speak of?

[Rx8man]

Geardaddy and I are the two that both conjured up this idea.

I merely called him on a whim to suggest it, and this was his reply "I was thinking the EXACT same thing you were !" so into motion it went.

Geardaddy and I are both personally sick and tired of the same ole, same ole audio names brought up on a daily barrage of topics in the never ending search for the holy grail, or satisfactorily near it.

We need to think (listen) outside the box for a change, and give the underground audio manufacturers a fair shake of a chance here.

[Geardaddy]

amen...

[Geardaddy]

Double Ugly, you asked that question rather suspiciously:  the "we" has now expanded from Rx8man and myself to include NEWAS (WI audio society), the Chicago Audio Society, and Robert from RSA and Dale Pitcher from ID.  I nor Rx8man are stealth dealers.  I see that you are a SP Tech-head.  Any suggestions on how to get a pair there?  I also saw that you own the Butler monoblocks.  Very nice.... 

[rooze]

We are currently looking at either the Trasher Opera House north of Madison, WI or possibly in the Chicago area.

That's "Thrasher Opera House", in case anyone tries to google it. A quite large and historic building in the heart of Green Lake WI. This may or may not be appropriate, or even available at this stage, but inquiries have been made.
Anyone wishing to follow the complete progress of this can do so by visiting the NEWAS thread here http://newaudiosociety.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=club;action=display;num=1200777461;start=0#0

To help plan and locate a venue for this event it would help tremendously if people would indicate if they are interested in attending. Your name and location would be useful.
Thanks

Rooze

[Brian Cheney]

Speakers designed for typical home listening environments would not do well in an auditorium or theater.  If that is your intended venue the results would be suspect at the least, misleading at the worst, and pointless for most audiophiles.

In light of a recent multi-speaker "shootout" published in one of the audio webzines I would hope the sponsors of this speaker comparison consider at minimum the following important points:

1. Determine in advance that each device under test is working properly, according to the manufacturer's specifications.  This means extensive testing before, during, and after the shootout with good equipment and an experienced technician.

2. Optimum listening height should be determined in advance for each listener and speaker; if stands are used they should be baffled (if that is the manufacturer's desire) or open (again, if designed for use with such). 

3. If listeners are seated horizontally on axis, then no listeners should be seated off axis or in another listener's acoustic shadow, and vice versa.  Perceived FR and tonal balance will change considerably with listening position due to differences in speaker directivity.

4. Is the listening room small, medium, or large, treated or untreated, and if treated, in what fashion?  Do you intend to mimic a typical home environment (mostly reflective), an anechoic chamber (most absorptive), live-end/dead-end, or what?   Or will you use each kind, moving the entire test and its participants from venue to venue? How do you plan to find the optimum speaker position (e.g. distance from back and side walls)?

5. What associated equipment will you use?  Foir example, will there be primarily current-source or voltage-source amplification?  Analog or digital sources?  Entry level, mid fi, or high end price ranges?  Will there be a live music reference?  Indeed what will be the reference--headphones, a Stereophile Class A speaker in the same room, the personal hifis of the participants?

I could go on at great length, and others here could add many other variables I have not touched on.  What makes these "comparisons" of questionable value
is that if one setup with one speaker in one environment and one set of listeners gives result X, and another setup with a different speaker in a changed environment and new listeners gives result Y, I don't see what has been accomplished, other than producing fodder for anecedotes that will find their way onto the mass confusion which are internet message boards. Yet if you don't change the gear, room, and test subjects you end up with one man's opinion based on his room, gear, and preferences, which vary greatly as we all know.

Still I wish you good luck and good listening.

B Cheney
President VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com

[spence]

I say just set em' up and let em' rip.

[Double Ugly]

Double Ugly, you asked that question rather suspiciously: 

Think so?  I'd say curious, though the "We" in your announcement might've taken me to the ragged edge of suspicious. 

Full disclosure about one's professional relationships has become quite a big deal 'round here lately, and I'm a curious kinda guy.

Frankly, I wonder what any manufacturer would have to gain from such an event.  Assuming the answer is something along the lines of "not much", one has to wonder why they'd go to the trouble of participating.  Seems to me the only entity that could hope to realize worthwhile benefit from such a gathering would be a dealer, and even that's an iffy proposition unless the "Shootout" is rigged.

I see that you are a SP Tech-head.  Any suggestions on how to get a pair there? 

SP Tech-head?

No, I don't know anyone in the area who owns a pair.  In fact, last I heard, very few of the latest version of *any* model has been delivered.

You may be able to find a pair of Timepiece Minis, but they're half the price of the next least-expensive pair you've listed.  Nevertheless, though bass extension won't be quite as good, they should prove sufficient at familiarizing you with the SP Tech 'sound.'

I also saw that you own the Butler monoblocks.  Very nice.... 

Yes, they were nice.  I sold them about 6 months ago.

FWIW (not much, I'm sure), I happen to agree with most of what Mr. Cheney said. 

[Brian Cheney]

spence:

If you just "set 'em up and let 'em rip" the outcome will be heavily prejudiced towards the louder, brighter and peakier speaker.  This is true for both novice and experienced listeners and is made worse by the theater/auditorium environment proposed for the comparison.

[Daygloworange]

I very much agree with Brian as well.

I've had a number of listening sessions in our facility, with the benefit of high ceiling height, dozens of acoustic panels loaned to me (by a colleague who owns an acoustics company) placed on 4 sides of a large listening space, and carpet put down on the floor to control reflections.

We even had stadium type seating, with benches in staggered heights from front to back.

Conclusion. If you are alone in the space, and in the sweet spot, marvelous. 

If you are there among 20, 30, 40, or 50 audiophiles, forget about it. 

You'll hear characteristics on a macro scale, but will not be able to get a true representation of a speakers capability.

The noise floor alone, is terrible. Unless you are the one who happens to be lucky enough to be in the sweet spot, you will not get the proper perspective on a speakers true capability in a well tuned set up, and in a proper (well treated) room setting.

Cheers

[spence]

Brian,
  I didn't look at it as a "this vs. that" type of session. I looked at it as a fun-filled opportunity for those interested to get together with some cool speakers and have a listen. That's why I said to "let em' rip".  If this were a scientific evaluation, then I could see going to the trouble of having the listening environment acoustically perfect. In case anyone is wondering why I'm posting in this thread, I have a pair of Timepiece 3.0's on order, so I'm curious. 

[MaxCast]

change the title a bit and let em rip.   

I agree with Brian's points if this was to be a shoot out to pick the #1 speaker.  There is not such a thing as a #1 speaker as rooms and people are different. 
This does offer an opportunity for a bunch of people to meet, have fun  and hear speakers they may not have been able to here before. 

What the Chicago and WI guys should do is do something like a AK fest between Chicago and Milwaukee.  Start out with a couple of rooms every year and see what happens.

[bluemike]

I think shootout may be the wrong term to use

I would refer this get together as a "party of speakers"..some of the very best on audition mind you

Whatever you call it I will do my best to attend 

[spence]

I'd go in a heartbeat if I weren't stuck in the hills of Appalachia. Sounds like a lot of fun to be had.

[Carlman]

I don't know if I agree that the loudest/brightest/bass-heaviest will win universal praise amongst audiophiles with trained and objective ears in a reasonably sized group... What if that loud/bright/bass-y speaker happens to also be the shoutiest, least refined, and annoying?  I've compared speakers that covered a wide range of cost, size, and overall implementation side-by-side many times and with groups of 3-8 people.  I try not to foster a 'group-think' mentality and encourage people to take away their own impressions. 

I would suggest you individually take notes and compare them after listening... It'll be fun to see how many different opinions you get. 

A note on publicly announcing this kind of experiment.... There are people that want the results skewed one way or another so 'their speaker' will win... and they will attempt to manipulate your listening session prior to the event and then rip apart your methods afterwards... Just do your event the best way you know how, have fun, and wear a thick skin.

-C

[Double Ugly]

I'd go in a heartbeat if I weren't stuck in the hills of Appalachia.

Where, exactly?

I'm not there (Appalachia) at present, but was raised in east Tennessee, and make relatively frequent trips back to visit with family.