[csero]

IMHO, if you want good orchestral sound reproduction you have only 2 options. You either build a huge room with similar acoustics to a concert hall or you use a small and dead room with multichannel (not 5.1) reproduction.

[TomS]

Oh yes, definitely add the Emerald Physics CS2's to the list, with the understanding you need a second stereo amplifier.  I don't have a full measure of what they're capable just yet.  They have particularly surprised me with the dynamics they're capable of and the OB bass from four 15" woofers is very satisfying.  I don't listen to a lot of pure orchestral music myself, but I suspect they'd be right in line with what you'd expect from the smaller Maggie and Dalquist realm, yet not real imposing physically.  Very easy to drive and place within the room as well.  Definitely worth a look at the ~$3k price point.

Tom

[zybar]

I'm trying to think what I personally would do if such were my list of choices (and assuming my listening room would accommodate any one of them).  I'm a "keep it simple stupid" kind of guy so I'd probably gravitate toward speakers that didn't require multiple amps.  But sound-wise, I think this is a near-impossible call unless you could audition each one carefully in your room.  Plus the realization that you'd almost certainly be happy enough with any of them (unless you're the obsessive-compulsive type).

Your open-mindedness, including the willingness to DIY or consider using four amplifiers & external XO, and your apparently flexible budget, make this a pretty tough choice.  Maybe first, decide how much you're an open-baffle guy.  Then decide how many amps you want to deal with.

The Emerald Physics sound like a steal ($3000) until you consider their amping requirements, but a lot of this probably comes out in the wash. 

All that being said, if it were me, and I'd said my budget really was $4000 or under, I'd almost certainly get either the QWs or the Timepiece Minis.  Knowing what I know about a good 2-way design with good bass reach (and with the memory of being electrified and pinned to my chair last night by a superbly recorded Beethoven overture) I'd happily save the extra $thousands for more music. 

Good luck...

At a budget of $4k you could get the CS2's and a used ATI 1506 amp to drive all of the channels.  I have personally tried this setup and it produces outstanding dynamics, detail, and speed.  When funds allow it, you could further upgrade the system (if you feel that it is necessary) by getting the DCX modified.

George

[zybar]

...Now, the only thing left for me to ask about is the EMERAL PHYSICS CS2s.  What are these??  They obviously are an open Baffle design.  Zybar *George,* could you / would you comment on these? Hmmmm???

Images,

You have many excellent speakers on your list and I can honestly say that they will all produce excellent results when properly setup.  So it is really hard for me to recommend one over another.  I also have tremendous respect for the skills and knowledge of all three designers.   

The CS2's sound as many others have already stated:  fast, dynamic, open, and detailed.  They are very well balanced from top to bottom and have done quite well with everything I have thrown at them.  While I like them with tubes (Bella Extreme 100's on the woofers and a McAlister PP-150 on the tweeter), they also sounded very good with solid state (ATI 1506 at my house and entry level Bel Canto stereo amps at RMAF).

Do the CS2's have the same weight and chest thumping bass as the Salk HT3's or SP Tech Continuum's?  NOPE.

Do the SP Tech's and Salk's have the same speed, detail, and dynamics as the CS2's.  NOPE.

Do cosmetics matter to you?  If so, the Salks are clearly in a class by themselves.  While the SP Tech's have improved a lot, they still have a way to go before they reach the furniture grade level of the Salk speakers.  The CS2's don't have a cabinet and have a simple, yet solid look to them. 

The CS2's will require four channels of amplification vs. the normal two for the Salk's and SP Tech's and they do need to be at least 3-5' away from the front wall.  Their open baffle design makes their placement for optimum bass easier to find and a little less room dependent.  While all three speakers will certainly benefit from room treatments, I think the Salk and SP Tech speakers need more low end absorption to sound their best when compared to the CS2's - not that there is anything wrong with that.

Could I happily live with any of them?  ABSOLUTELY.

Send me a PM if you want more details.

George

[AliG]

Sadly, most orchestra recordings were simply not capable of giving you that "aural impression of the hall" that you want to hear. It's not the fault of the speakers, most of the time it's simply because what you want to hear is not in the recording itself. I have been a regular to all kinds of orchestra/theater/Symphony since I was a student in London, United Kingdom - some 15 years ago. I did it so often that I'm now sicked of it. But I didn't get to stop because my wife is a live performance freak . No system come close to reproduce that live music effect. When you hear people talk about "live sounding" speakers, you have to question whether the "live sound" comes from room reverberation or it's part of the recording. If it's part of the recording, then any properly designed speakers (as many have suggested on this thread) would reproduce the sound beautifully. If it's not part of the recording, then it's either the room or it's the speakers "adding things that should not be there to begin with".

So when it comes to live orchestra performance in a huge acoustic-friendly hall, nothing come close.

However, when it come to amplified live Jazz performance in a bar, pub, a small hall, or any places which is not acoustic-friendly, then a properly setup two channel system can actually sound better than live.

I will concede two points:  I want not only to hear a detailed rendering of the orchestra, but I also want a aural impression of the hall in which they are playing.  (Fussy, ain't I?) 
       

[*Scotty*]

Images, So far no one has mentioned The AV 123 LS 6 speaker. You should inquire about the availability and current price of the this speaker. This speaker should meet most of your performance requirements for reproducing Classical music in a room the size you mentioned in your post. They will have the speed and dynamic range coupled with the low distortion that having multiple drivers to do the work brings to the table as well as at least a flat 20Hz to 20kHz in your room. Precision imaging and realistic image scale should also be present. When soloists are performing or smaller ensembles are playing such as string quartets and smaller jazz groups you should have something like a life size image in front of you.
Here are some links to more information about the LS 6  http://www.stereomojo.com/LS6%20review/AV123LS6review.htm 
The AV123 forum thread with more pictures   http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=13909&page=4 
The footprint of the LS 6 at 12in.x16.5in. is about the same as the Salk HT3 at 12in.x 15in.
I hope the info about this alternative to the other speakers mentioned is helpful.
Scotty

[Tweaker]

Here's yet another speaker that might work for you:
http://www.nolaspeakers.com/

(Nola Viper 1A)

[BrianM]

No system come close to reproduce that live music effect. When you hear people talk about "live sounding" speakers, you have to question whether the "live sound" comes from room reverberation or it's part of the recording. If it's part of the recording, then any properly designed speakers (as many have suggested on this thread) would reproduce the sound beautifully. If it's not part of the recording, then it's either the room or it's the speakers "adding things that should not be there to begin with".

So when it comes to live orchestra performance in a huge acoustic-friendly hall, nothing come close.

However, when it come to amplified live Jazz performance in a bar, pub, a small hall, or any places which is not acoustic-friendly, then a properly setup two channel system can actually sound better than live.

I agree with this 100%!  I think it's why I gravitate toward speakers that will sound their best in a relatively dead room (i.e. the studio monitor approach).  As Dave Ellis remarked on his website: "The frequency response is very flat and indicates complete baffle compensation.  Some call this unromantic.  I call it accurate."

[doak]

I've had the Emerald Physics CS2 "in the house" for just 4 days now and the system isn't close to being "optimized" at this point ,,, still I am hearing things from my record collection I haven't heard before - they are incredible instruments.  The sense of the recordings' "space" is reproduced like no other speaker I've ever heard... and I owned/heard plenty of true high-end and otherwise speakers in over 30 years of serious "hi-fi" pursuit.   There is NOTHING like a full range di-pole in this respect and the CS2 is singular in it's ability to accurately track the dynamics of the music as well.  None of the stats/planars/ribbons I've owned/heard could do this.  Well recorded classical music is simply awesome.

IMNSHO at the asking price the CS2 is a "no brainer."  I spoke with Clayton Shaw today and there are more exciting developments on the horizon.  Stay tuned!

[fsimms]

I have Salk HT1's and have reviewed the Salk SongTowers.  I have a good friend that has the Salk HT3's and heard the Emerald Physics CS2 at RMAF.  I would recommend that you get the Salk QW's if you can't put the speakers out into the room.  The HT3's and CS2's need at least two to three feet behind them.  This might cause problems with the wife.  The QW's and SongTowers can be closer to the back wall but I think the QW's would sound much better on orchestral music.  The QW's will sound much cleaner and dynamic on instruments.   If you listened to a lot of singing, then the SongTowers would be back into the picture.

[anubisgrau]

oris swing. period.

can't thing of anything in that price range (22500 euros plus shipping) that can deliver such a good, undistorted 140 db on flying dutchman overture.

[doak]

140 dB??
22.5K euro???

I know it isn't April 1 yet!   

[anubisgrau]

140 dB??
22.5K euro???

I know it isn't April 1 yet!   

well the efficiency of oris swing is 114db and we turned all the 7w from a gainclone amp into it. i didn't measure but it was pretty loud, trust me;)

[doak]

I'm sure the Swings are awesome speakers ,,,
though their price would purchase 10 or 11 pair of the Emerald Physics CS2.   

[sunshinedawg]

IMHO, if you want good orchestral sound reproduction you have only 2 options. You either build a huge room with similar acoustics to a concert hall or you use a small and dead room with multichannel (not 5.1) reproduction.

Couldn't agree with this more.

Sadly, most orchestra recordings were simply not capable of giving you that "aural impression of the hall" that you want to hear. It's not the fault of the speakers, most of the time it's simply because what you want to hear is not in the recording itself.

So when it comes to live orchestra performance in a huge acoustic-friendly hall, nothing come close.

This kind of thinking is just plain wrong and very narrow minded to boot. You can get the impression of a hall if you know what you're doing.

[doak]

I must agree that it IS certianly possible to recreate the sound of the recording venue with a good source and playback system... it's sometihng I really enjoy.  Try an RCA Living Stero LP on a good phono system along with the right ancillaries - Magical!
One DOES NOT need a HUGE room, though some space does help. 

[AliG]

Yeah right.. keep dreaming...

but I'm a realist...you can certainly create "an impression"..but how close can you get to the "REAL THING"?? 60%, 70%?? That's not close enough to me

This kind of thinking is just plain wrong and very narrow minded to boot. You can get the impression of a hall if you know what you're doing.

[doak]

Yeah right.. keep dreaming...

but I'm a realist...you can certainly create "an impression"..but how close can you get to the "REAL THING"?? 60%, 70%?? That's not close enough to me

This kind of thinking is just plain wrong and very narrow minded to boot. You can get the impression of a hall if you know what you're doing.

Might be time to listen to some vinyl Bro.   

[AliG]

Do not assume I have not listened enough.

Yeah right.. keep dreaming...

but I'm a realist...you can certainly create "an impression"..but how close can you get to the "REAL THING"?? 60%, 70%?? That's not close enough to me

This kind of thinking is just plain wrong and very narrow minded to boot. You can get the impression of a hall if you know what you're doing.

Might be time to listen to some vinyl Bro.   

[doak]

It is a FACT that it IS NOT possible to recreate the sound of an orchestra plaing in our listening rooms yet we ALL seek some approximation of it.  It's about comprimise and how much are you willing to accept.  If the answer is "none" than I have no suggestion except to find another avocation and stick to live music exclusively.
Sincerely.