Introducing the RM30 SDE (Special Digital Edition)

John Casler · « **on:** 23 Dec 2007, 07:38 pm »

RM30 SDE (Special Digital Edition)

Recently I posted about the availability of the new "Digital Crossover" for VMPS speakers.

Brian has now created the first VMPS Model that has this technology built in.

It is the RM30 SDE (Special Digital Edition)

It is a fabulous bargain, and is actually difficult to gauge just how great is can be in your room.

Make no mistake about it, this is a speaker of a performance not seen (or heard) in this price range.

Here is what the RM30 SDE consists of:

A pair of RM30C speakers ($3500 retail value)
MLS PIANO BLACK Premium Finish Cabinets ($400 retail value)
New 6.5" MegaWoofers (MSRP not yet determined)
DCX 2496 Digital Processing Unit ($339 MSRP)
Digital Equalization Programs (MSRP not yet determined)
Choice of "Sealed" or PR'd bass system
Analog "combine" x-over option on the tweater/MR group to allow "bi-amping"
or output for "tri-amping" (MSRP not yet determined)
A family of "preprogrammed" equalizations and room corrected applications

This new model virtually eliminates "room placement" issues.

With the digital correction of the DCX virtually all enclosure coloration would be eliminated.

We are looking into also offering a passive attenuator for the power amps and eliminate the preamp entirely, feeding the DCX direct from the digital output of the CD player or digital source.

So as you can see this speaker would be offered to the market for between $4500 and $5000.

As an introductory offer (and this is "LIMITED" to specific Piano Black Cabinet stock)

We are talking orders starting to day for Jan 15th availability for $3499.

PMAT · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 05:51 am »

Is Brian picking up speed as he gets older? Sheesh!

I hope to god he lives a long life. I'd like to order digital planar magnetic front windows and a giant subwoofer couch for my house please. Make it all voice activated of course (gets louder when it hears my wife's voice). 2009 delivery, thank you.

mjosef · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 06:02 am »

This is a good start...would like to see this digital crossover rolled out for the whole line.

John Casler · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 06:53 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 24 Dec 2007, 06:02 am

This is a good start...would like to see this digital crossover rolled out for the whole line.

It is already available (although the curves are still being formulated/created).

All you need do is order the "DIRECT DRIVE" version of any speaker model, and the D-OXO option.

We are just coming online with this, although it has been in the works for almost 2 years.

look here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=47768.0

Jose R. · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 07:10 am »

Hi John

What crossovers and slopes is Brian recommending for the RM30's? I have played around with these using the Tact digital amps and crossovers and struggled to get a good cross between woofers and panels.

Regards

Jose

John Casler · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: Jose R. on 24 Dec 2007, 07:10 am

Hi John

What crossovers and slopes is Brian recommending for the RM30's? I have played around with these using the Tact digital amps and crossovers and struggled to get a good cross between woofers and panels.

Regards

Jose

Hi Jose,

That is part of the VMPS magic, and only Brian can answer that.

I do know that B, has a very unique method of "blending" drivers (some of which he has not only constructed, but also magnetized) in a way that no one else uses.

I don't dabble in crossovers, but I do know that the frequencies, slopes and phase relationships can have profound effects of the performance (FR, dispersion, etc) and that the various recipes of these ingredients in the different curves B will offer, will allow you to have several performance advantages for specific applications.

For example, he will be able to create curves that maximize the use of the CDWG and its dispersive patterns. This will provide a larger sweet spot.

He will be able to further create curves for the speaker with the CDWG off, which will provide a "tighter" sweet spot and greater pin point imaging for single audiophile listening.

As well he will be able to load curves that can be called up when you feel like a little "late night" listening at low levels, where you may need to "re-adjust" the FR to the Fletcher Munson effect.

So it should be quite exciting, to have several speakers in one box.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Dec 2007, 04:54 pm »

One of the unique features of this "digital" configuration is that the designer or user can also adjust delay between bass and mid/treble sections for different listening positions and room configurations. This greatly aids the ultimate blending and time-aligning of drivers. "Measurably flat" response to 20Hz is available

Right now I am mimicking the slopes of our series first order networks digitally, for the most natural sound. I realize most implementations of digital crossovers feature very high order slopes (DCX allows up to 48dB/oct) but I don't care for their sound.

With the SDE 30's, the constant directivity waveguide, many different filter charactistics, and room mode correction combined with the seamless, flawless , wife-friendly look of mls cabinetry, a small footprint, the finest ribbon/planar drivers , the ideal transient response of four high power 6.5" woofers in a sealed box, best associated parts and wiring, and affordable price should, I trust, make the system irresistable. And most important to many listeners, placement and setup are flexible and easy, including near-wall positioning.

For those users with analog sources who don't wish to quantize their pristine signals, an outboard analog crossover is available for $450 which can be hooked up in a few seconds. This is truly the best of both worlds.

Housteau · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 03:57 am »

This is all very interesting. I didn't think that the DCX 2496 Digital Processing Unit was of a high enough quality to work well like this. Most audiophiles that use Behringer gear have it for bass control issues and from what I understand would not use them for the higher frequencies at all.

JDUBS · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 05:00 am »

This is awesome stuff. The DCX is proving to be a VERY versatile piece of hardware, indeed!

-Jim

JP78 · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 05:16 am »

so why spend 400 or 1200 on caps with this new cheap deqx?

John Casler · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Dec 2007, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: JDUBS on 28 Dec 2007, 05:00 am

This is awesome stuff. The DCX is proving to be a VERY versatile piece of hardware, indeed!

-Jim

While any and all technologies have their downsides, the flexibility of the unit, in the hands of a good designer can make for some excellent sound.

Ideally, you would use it with the "digital" input, but using the "analog ins" is also better than most.

We are also looking into mods for those who want them.

John Casler · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Dec 2007, 11:26 pm »

Quote from: JP78 on 28 Dec 2007, 05:16 am

so why spend 400 or 1200 on caps with this new cheap deqx?

No Caps are used with the D-OXO unless you use the Analog Blend of the tweet/neopanels (which allows for bi-amping instead of tri-amping)

tpicc · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 12:54 am »

John,

It looks like the DCX has only XLR connections. Will the RM30 SDE come with converters for RCA? If not, how much more for those? Also, you mention a passive attenuator that will do away with a pre-amp. Where does the attenuator go?

HAL · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 01:14 am »

If it is a standard Behringer DCX2496, the attenuators goes between the DCX2496 outputs and the power amp inputs.

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 04:50 pm »

So this begs the question, which way to go?

The RM30 SDE or the RM40jr with direct drive and wait for the digital curves to be worked out for that?

I currently have a Van Alstine Ultimate 70, it would be great to run that for the ribbons and the tweeter, and use the analogue crossover for that, no? Or would I be better off just getting some nice quality but low powered, like 3.5 watt SET or some 10 watt tube amp?

I have a Sony ES 9000 amp that gives me 5 channels at 125 watts. I have a pair of smaller VMPS subs and currently run them with the amp bridged but could set it up so that two channels drive the subs and two channels drive the bass end of the speakers. I could use two channels for the bass, two channels for the tweeter

, and use the U70 for the mids and get another beefy cheap solid state amp to drive the subs.

I use this in a home theater set up though I mainly listen to 2 channel sound. Would I be able to take the digital out (record) from the Pioneer VSX 59i, run it in to digital crossover and still get surround sound from the amps in the receiver? I am guessing that wouldn't work as I would only get two channel digital out from the receiver.

I had looked at the NHT XD and though the digitial implementation seems more speaker specific this looks like a much more amazing set up in comparison.

thanks!

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 05:21 pm »

Oh, and one more thing.

If you use amps with different input sensitivities for the different drivers how do you set the levels?

John

John Casler · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 06:05 pm »

Quote from: tpicc on 1 Jan 2008, 12:54 am

John,

It looks like the DCX has only XLR connections. Will the RM30 SDE come with converters for RCA? If not, how much more for those? Also, you mention a passive attenuator that will do away with a pre-amp. Where does the attenuator go?

I have a company that will make XLR to RCA cables but do not have any adaptors.

As far as the Passive Gain Section Brian mentioned that and I have not seen it or talked with him about that yet.

You will find that some will use the "digital in" thereby eliminating the extra analog to digital stage, and requiring Gain "after" the D-OXO, and others will use their present preamps and simply run amps after the D-OXO.

The price of the XLR to RCA cables I have, start at $150 pr/meter retail and will have courtesy pricing in the package. They also come in 1/2meter ($120), and 3/4 meter ($135).

Another good option in the "preamp" department is any "high end" Pre/Pro (Bryston, Krell, Lexicon, Theta, NuFORCE, etc) that has 5.1 analog inputs and outputs. (lots of these on the market that have less than "up to the minute" processing so they are perfect for using as a 6 channel preamp.

Since I am a NuForce dealer, I am considering the AVP17 for mine.

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 06:24 pm »

neutrik makes quality xlr-to-rca adapters; you can get them from most any pro-audio shop (or on the 'net from pro audio shops), for less than $10 each...

doug s.

John Casler · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jan 2008, 06:26 pm »

Quote from: simon wagstaff on 1 Jan 2008, 04:50 pm

So this begs the question, which way to go?

The RM30 SDE or the RM40jr with direct drive and wait for the digital curves to be worked out for that?

I currently have a Van Alstine Ultimate 70, it would be great to run that for the ribbons and the tweeter, and use the analogue crossover for that, no? Or would I be better off just getting some nice quality but low powered, like 3.5 watt SET or some 10 watt tube amp?

I have a Sony ES 9000 amp that gives me 5 channels at 125 watts. I have a pair of smaller VMPS subs and currently run them with the amp bridged but could set it up so that two channels drive the subs and two channels drive the bass end of the speakers. I could use two channels for the bass, two channels for the tweeter , and use the U70 for the mids and get another beefy cheap solid state amp to drive the subs.

I use this in a home theater set up though I mainly listen to 2 channel sound. Would I be able to take the digital out (record) from the Pioneer VSX 59i, run it in to digital crossover and still get surround sound from the amps in the receiver? I am guessing that wouldn't work as I would only get two channel digital out from the receiver.

I had looked at the NHT XD and though the digitial implementation seems more speaker specific this looks like a much more amazing set up in comparison.

thanks!

Hi John,

Only a few days ago, I sojourned to El Sobrante and picked up my RM40jr's for this very purpose.

Since we are in the short strokes of Las Vegas prep, the "curves" will likely be ready after the whole CES "thing" is over, which is why B, projected Jan 15th for the RM30 SDE for that slot.

Since I haven't personally used the D-OXO unit, I cannot say for sure, but I am under the impression that present and future "curves and settings" can be saved to "flash memory", and mailed. And that would also lead to the possibility of "e-mailing" files and updates, or having them "on line" to be downloaded to Flash Chips, and installed.

So I have the RM40jr with OXO and intend to get the D-OXO as soon as available (which should not take long after the RM30 settings are done).

The D-OXO can only handle 6 channels, so to have it also control a pair of subs, you would need to have the "tweeter/midrange" analog xo option.

This means 2 channels to the tw/MR, 2 channels to the bass drivers, and 2 channels to the SUBS.

You are correct about the "surround sound" not being available in the scenario you posted, since it bypasses the "surround processing", and all the amps will be going to 2 channels, not 5.

simon wagstaff · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Jan 2008, 03:44 am »

Just wanted to mention in my set-up I would use the cross-over in the receiver for the subs and use the RM 30 or RM 40 as a standard pair of speakers (large).

I look forward to your comments about the comparison!

Simon