On Establishing A New Paradigm For Loudspeaker Performance

Aether Audio · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 05:05 pm »

Occam,

Thanks for joining in.

I appreciate your comments and agree... our technology is hardly "revolutionary." "Evolutionary" is quite succinct and to the point. In fact, many will tell you that in private conversations I have elaborated extensively regarding my own amazement that we even have a business or product line to begin with. For years while I was working on developing our first waveguide I would peruse various journals, expecting to see some other company marketing products based on "my" waveguide. The physics are so fundamental and "obvious" I still don't understand why the majority of speakers aren't already being built with them.

Oh... and my use of the word "paradigm" is not based on the technology involved whatsoever. Rather, it is strictly reserved for the level of performance our products offer. Copy our designs and you will achieve the same - it's nothing more than a proper observation of the physics involved - and "primally fundamental" at that.

Will others eventually copy us? Well, time will tell but IMHO... they don't have a choice - unless they can find a way to alter the physics of electro-acoustics. Am I scared? Nah... What would you rather have, an original Harley-Davidson or a "rice burner"? There will always be those that opt for the "copy" due to various reasons, but there will also be a large crowd that prefer the "original" - enough to keep us busy anyway. Besides, plagiarism is the best form of compliment.

-Bob

PS. I have time to write all of this as I'm waiting for the garage to call saying my car is fixed. I have no wheels to get to the shop!

Double Ugly · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: IronLion on 17 Dec 2007, 04:37 pm

Two of Wind Chaser's recent posts:

"Assuming you have enclosed box speakers, here's how you make an easy painless transition from tubes to SS.

Get rid of the enclosed box speakers and go for a free air / open baffle design. The difference between these two designs in the way they present music is vastly greater than the difference bewteen tubes vs. SS. Personally, I much prefer a wingless OB with mid-fi than an enclosed speaker with superior electronics."

"Expecting a wave trapped inside an enclosed box to sound like an OB is like expecting a convict imprisoned to live life as if he's on the outside. That just ain't going to happen. Shake head"
All ye who owneth box'd speakers are prisoners, prisoners!

Fact is, Wind Chaser's comments reflect my own experience with the vast majority of "box" speakers. I could be wrong, but I don't believe he means any disrespect; I think he's simply questioning why SP Tech speakers should sound substantially different from any other 'conventional' speaker.

Like most of us at one time - including your's truly - he would benefit from hearing a pair of SP Technology speakers, especially now that Bob's begun using Mundorf components in the crossovers. Then he would be in a position to determine for himself whether we're onto something, or just finding new ways to express the same tired, old clichés.

This may not be the proper venue for his questions, but it wasn't that long ago that I nearly drove the president of SP Technology to distraction with frequent phone calls and questions. Though I'd already ordered and paid in full, I found it nearly impossible to resist peppering Bob with non-stop questions about what was so different about these mostly conventional-looking speakers.

'Course, that was 4 years and 2 pair of SP Technology speakers ago, with a 3^rd pair currently on order, so who knows? Maybe John will hear a pair and become as enthusiastic as I and some others... or not. No one speaker is for everyone.

Zero · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 05:22 pm »

The bottom line; There is nothing wrong with riffing a bit of praise about a product that gives you the jollies. Its testimony and passion that fuels the market as we know it. However, when doing so, it is best to keep the enthusiasm fair and tempered. Far fetched claims will be interpreted as such and will ultimately serve to damage the credibility of your position. Moderate your excitement. In the end, everyone will benefit.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 07:10 pm »

SP Technology owners need not apologize to anyone for their enthusiasm. Everyone has the right to feel good about his purchase and to express corresponding enthusiasm. That isn’t a threat to anyone. As I stated previously… In my mind a paying customer’s commentary is more meaningful than a professional review. When there are many paying customers who more or less concur and can provide contrast to other products they have owned, the significance or noteworthiness of those comments increases. The more detail provided, the better. That is part of the formula of being able to purchase a product without hearing it for oneself first.

However SP Technology is not by far the only credible manufacturer out there making outstanding products that are creating a stir of echoes. New products with new ideas are surfacing as we speak. And as the various technologies come into the general awareness, people exposed to the various options generally gravitate in one direction or another. What is here today is gone tomorrow and in time will most likely be rediscovered again, but improved upon.

Double Ugly nailed it when he said… I think he's simply questioning why SP Tech speakers should sound substantially different from any other 'conventional' speaker.

And no, I don’t mean any disrespect. My observations are what they are. I simply stated… I’m not trying to push anyone’s buttons here so forgive me for being so naïve, but on the surface I don’t see anything new or original in a wood like box, with a woofer and a tweeter. Whether there is a crossover or anything else hidden inside I don’t know, but on the surface there isn’t anything to suggest some extraordinary achievement.

My contrasting comments on OB were intended provoke some insight from the enthusiasts and knowledgeable as to... why the SP’s do not fall into the category of convention?? No getting an answer tells me either nobody knows, or the speakers are exceptionally good, but ultimately share the characteristics inherent to the limitations of the enclosed box.

Not long ago I held to the dogma that crossover less single full range driver is superior to any 2 or 3 way system with a sophisticated crossover. One brief exposure with the GR Research OB5 shattered that belief. So I am open minded enough to consider the possibility of SP TP being able to present the sound in a way tantamount to (or even better than) a free air dipole. However I do not see any rational to explain why that might be so.

Aether Audio · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 07:29 pm »

Wind Chaser,

Quote

So I am open minded enough to consider the possibility of SP TP being able to present the sound in a way tantamount to (or even better than) a free air dipole. However I do not see any rational to explain why that might be so.

I'm finally out to the shop now, so it's work-work-work. No time to address this one right now. You know I can't do it 2 paragraphs.

But rest assured... I DO have an answer as to why it IS possible.

Again, when you look at the physics involved, the answer to "why" is pretty obvious - at least to me. When I get an hour or so I'll be back. Might not be for days though.

Take care,
-Bob

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 04:43 am »

Since we're going to get the answer straight from the horse's mouth, I'll not say more. I did, however, attempt to hint at some of the factors that made SPTech designs stand on at least equal footing with dipoles, for the most part, but I guess that post slipped past your attention. Dipoles aren't new and certainly have their own drawbacks, especially the Emerald Physics CS2, imo.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 05:19 am »

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 18 Dec 2007, 04:43 am

Since we're going to get the answer straight from the horse's mouth, I'll not say more. I did, however, attempt to hint at some of the factors that made SPTech designs stand on at least equal footing with dipoles, for the most part, but I guess that post slipped past your attention. Dipoles aren't new and certainly have their own drawbacks, especially the Emerald Physics CS2, imo.

Just because two completely different designs share a wave guide and low crossover point doesn't put them on equal footing. Why do would you think the CS2 (which comes with an intuitive DSP) is especially at disadvantage? Are you implying that the CS2 requires more room treatment than an enclosed box and if so, why?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 05:56 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 18 Dec 2007, 05:19 am

Quote from: ooheadsoo on 18 Dec 2007, 04:43 am
Since we're going to get the answer straight from the horse's mouth, I'll not say more. I did, however, attempt to hint at some of the factors that made SPTech designs stand on at least equal footing with dipoles, for the most part, but I guess that post slipped past your attention. Dipoles aren't new and certainly have their own drawbacks, especially the Emerald Physics CS2, imo.

Just because two completely different designs share a wave guide and low crossover point doesn't put them on equal footing. Why do would you think the CS2 (which comes with an intuitive DSP) is especially at disadvantage? Are you implying that the CS2 requires more room treatment than an enclosed box and if so, why?

On the contrary, it is the box speaker that requires much more room treatment because of its omnipolar bass response. I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I wrote. We can communicate privately about the CS2 if you wish. I don't want to use the sptech forum for that.

konut · « **Reply #28 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 11:12 pm »

All designs have their assets and liabilities. No one speaker product will satisfy every taste and room. Every product will require some compromise to achieve satisfactory results. The laws of physics will not bend on this. What we have in SPTech products are a set of compromises that are least offensive to most, and, so far, optimum implementations of current technologies that have not been put together in one product before. Add to that proprietary implementation of waveguide, transmission line, and internal cabling and its easy to see that the tendency to proselytise is tempting. Its also easy to understand why that is offensive to some. We are fortunate to live in a time where the present state of the world allows us the luxury of time, and money, to invest in a persuit that brings us joy, relaxation and satisfaction. This was not always the case. We are blessed with more variety at more price points than ever before. Over time the outstanding products will, pardon the pun, speak for themselves. Here's a suggestion. Before you post on the virtues of ANY product, read the post from the standpoint of a disinterested observer. If the post comes off as if the writer has drunk some tampered with KoolAid, change where needed. With a 'tip of the hat' to Occam and Zero.

WOR Radio · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 04:23 am »

It always amazed me when something negative is written that an overwhelming assumption developes that the negative has more validity than the positives.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 06:01 am »

Quote from: WOR Radio on 19 Dec 2007, 04:23 am

It always amazed me when something negative is written that an overwhelming assumption developes that the negative has more validity than the positives.

What one perceives as a negative another may see as a positive from a different angle. Everyone is biased for different reasons. Some are so out of mere pride, others theoretical, another experiential and so on...

An open mind is a reasonable mind. It's interesting that of the three domestic SP Technology dealers/distributors with websites, two of them also carry the EP CS2. That's a great opportunity for which I am envious of those situated in proximity of those two opportunities to judge for ones self.

satfrat · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 06:52 am »

Quote from: WOR Radio on 19 Dec 2007, 04:23 am

It always amazed me when something negative is written that an overwhelming assumption developes that the negative has more validity than the positives.

And it amazes me that everytime someone has a different opinion on a every subjective subject, it's always assumed to be something negative. I mean, how pathetic is that? Bob's dead nut right on his opening statements but no one's listening.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 07:11 am »

Everyone wants the best for their money. No one likes insinuation, much less being told, that they bought the wrong thing.

2bigears · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 07:38 am »

the acid test will happen soon,11k laided down.Sound unheard.[Normal for Canucks].Let the tunes play!!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 07:57 am »

Quote from: 2bigears on 19 Dec 2007, 07:38 am

the acid test will happen soon,11k laided down.Sound unheard.[Normal for Canucks].Let the tunes play!!

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 19 Dec 2007, 07:57 am

Is that real or is it Photoshop?

Let me guess, this was Chris back in the 1970's standing by the speaker for the very first lone wolf speaker pose when some idiot dropped the stylus in a groove…

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 05:28 pm »

hmmm.... don't think they had photoshop in - what - 1977?

That's from an old tape ad. The caption read "Is it live - or is it Memorex?

konut · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 05:44 pm »

Your Alzheimers is showing. Thats the Maxell 'Blown Away' poster.

JLM · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 05:51 pm »

Yeah, "Live or Memorex" was a TV ad showing a glass shattering.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 Dec 2007, 05:54 pm »

Quote from: konut on 19 Dec 2007, 05:44 pm

Your Alzheimers is showing. Thats the Maxell 'Blown Away' poster.

Hence the spin... Is that real or is it Photoshop?