[richidoo]

If you don't need a lot of power, the Charles Altmann BYOB amp is excellent. Best of both worlds - clarity, presence, detail, air, live, tone of tubes, with bass slam, utter silence, simple operation and low cost of SS. Combine it with his Attraction DAC to avoid the digital gritties TCG was talking about, and maybe some quality cables, and you will pop your top. Very tasty, but you only got 5w into 4 ohms, so use them wisely...
Rich

[woodsyi]

Has anyone out there ever made this type of change?

-Brian

Oh, but why?  Trains your kids and move to North Dakota.  You will want to keep your tubes. 

[Wind Chaser]

Assuming you have enclosed box speakers, here's how you make an easy painless transition from tubes to SS.

Get rid of the enclosed box speakers and go for a free air / open baffle design.  The difference between these two designs in the way they present music is vastly greater than the difference bewteen tubes vs. SS.

Personally, I much prefer a wingless OB with mid-fi than an enclosed speaker with superior electronics.

[JLM]

A friend has OB with tubes.  As expected the sound is colored and lacks imaging.  Soundstage is the size of the wall behind them.  Tone is rich, warm, and full bodied.  Easier to live with than a highly analytical studio system, but I'd tire from too much euphoria.

It is enjoyable, but not accurate, and not my idea of an audiophile system. 


BTW, the definition of euphoria is a feeling of happiness, confidence, or well-being sometimes exaggerated in pathological states as mania. 

That sums up the description of extreme tubeheads IMO.

[BrianM]

John, admittedly all my gear has tubes in it so I'm not exactly making the case for going pure solid state. Just seems to me that a hybrid design can afford even lower distortion whilst preserving the relaxation and smoothness of traditional tube sound. Such has been my experience; pure tube gear muddies the detail a bit too much for me -- though I've never had the opportunity to try anything ultra expensive that may do better.  As for the technicals behind my hybrid gear I'm sure I'd make a hash of explaining it, too, though I can say they apparently favor open-loop harmonic distortion over closed-loop phase distortion.  Anyway no "steeliness" here. 

If your primary listening is with a digital front end (CD, DVD, DVD-A, SACD).....you'll probably want tubes there to soften and fill-in.

Translation: to distort and embellish.  Rubbish!   

tee-hee, I thought much the same, oh, maybe up until 3 years ago.  But there is something more than just pleasing distortion that are tube signatures.  Namely, from what I understand, they are an open circuit (a vacuum, which is the principle of how tubes operate, is an open circuit).

Transistors open and close, combined with sampling rates (not analog-ous, but digital approximations of sound), it will often make for a steely presentation as your mind has to work hard to fill in the gaps. Tube gear, with such digital approximations such as CD, have at least an open circuit so that your brain doesn't work to fill in the blanks nearly as much.  So, CD sounds more 'relaxed' or softer to the ear than with solid state gear.  This was explained to me long ago by someone far more technically oriented than I..

Meaning of analogous (adjective)
similar; parallel; comparable

The higher sampling rate digital technologies, DVD/DVD-A/SACD, suffer less from the need for your brain to fill in the blanks...and may or may not sound better using tubes.  Like those who enjoy vinyl, tubes become more of a preference than a necessity.

We're all rather different in so many ways that any generalization is apt to be wrong in some way....but it is largely the case that using tubes will soften and help the fill-in with CD playback.

You may try to fight the tide of reality, I did for years thinking much the same as you, or you can listen for yourself and decide.  No lost sleep for me either way, Brian 

John

[pardales]

If you don't need a lot of power, the Charles Altmann BYOB amp is excellent. Best of both worlds - clarity, presence, detail, air, live, tone of tubes, with bass slam, utter silence, simple operation and low cost of SS. Combine it with his Attraction DAC to avoid the digital gritties TCG was talking about, and maybe some quality cables, and you will pop your top. Very tasty, but you only got 5w into 4 ohms, so use them wisely...
Rich

I agree with the recommendation of the Altmann BYOB but I believe the power rating is 20 WPC at 4 ohm, and 10 WPC at 8 ohms. This is a little deceiving too -- it can drive even moderately efficient speakers. I drove a pair of VR4-JR's with this amp and had more than enough power. Hope this helps.

[sleepysurf]

Besides a hybrid amp, don't forget the option of a tube pre/linestage, paired with a good SS amp.  You still get most of the "magic" of tubes, plus the power and tight bass from SS.  The Modwright (other designs too) keeps the tubes totally enclosed within the box, so they are kid-safe.

[vpolineni]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the first watt f3 yet.  It's a jfet amp that's supposed to have a lot of tube-like qualities.  In fact it won a blue moon award as "the amp for for low-power tube aficionados who don't want tubes."
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/firstwatt4/f3.html
(I'm not affiliated in any way, just interested in the product)

[TONEPUB]

The F3 is awesome!  I had one for about a year when I still had single driver
speakers (2nd Rethm) and it replaced a Wavac. Just a tiny touch less midrange
magic, but more bass, more air and a smoother top end.

Definitely would be my first choice if I ever went back that way again....

[Wind Chaser]

A friend has OB with tubes.  As expected the sound is colored and lacks imaging.  Soundstage is the size of the wall behind them.  Tone is rich, warm, and full bodied.  Easier to live with than a highly analytical studio system, but I'd tire from too much euphoria.

It is enjoyable, but not accurate, and not my idea of an audiophile system.

Everyone has his own idea of what is an accurate audiophile system.  Coloration and lack of imaging can be fixed with better tube gear.  My point is that enclosed boxed speakers have a characteristic that makes them sound like enclosed boxed speakers.  This observable fact is especially evident in the midrange, the airiness of the sound and the surreal visceral impact.  An enclosed boxed, no matter how good just doesn't sound as natural as an open baffle. 

Concern tubes to SS.  Years ago it worked out very well for me when I replaced an Audio Research Classic with a Pass Labs Aleph.  Don’t know if that entirely counts as I was still using an ARC line stage, which has 1 input tube.

First Watt amps... aren't they intended for crossover less single full range drivers only?

[Steve Eddy]

Namely, from what I understand, they are an open circuit (a vacuum, which is the principle of how tubes operate, is an open circuit).

Transistors open and close, combined with sampling rates (not analog-ous, but digital approximations of sound), it will often make for a steely presentation as your mind has to work hard to fill in the gaps. Tube gear, with such digital approximations such as CD, have at least an open circuit so that your brain doesn't work to fill in the blanks nearly as much.  So, CD sounds more 'relaxed' or softer to the ear than with solid state gear.  This was explained to me long ago by someone far more technically oriented than I..

What!?

I'm sorry, but whoever it was that said that has absolutely no technical orientation at all. Please don't repeat that sort of gibberish. That's how myths get started which cause people to become ignorantly prejudicial against certain things.

se

[Steve Eddy]

First Watt amps... aren't they intended for crossover less single full range drivers only?

No. Just the F1 and F2, which are quasi current source amplifiers. The F3 is a normal voltage source amplifier that uses power JFETs and the F4 is a unity gain power buffer.

se

[Daygloworange]

Please don't repeat that sort of gibberish. That's how myths get started which cause people to become ignorantly prejudicial against certain things.

You mean myths like how digital sounds "harsh" because of all the gaps in between the 44100 samples per second, and that analogue with all it's b*%&$#t is clearly the only truly musical medium?

Are those the type of over repeated myths you are referring to?

Cheers

[Steve Eddy]

You mean myths like how digital sounds "harsh" because of all the gaps in between the 44100 samples per second, and that analogue with all it's b*%&$#t is clearly the only truly musical medium?

Are those the type of over repeated myths you are referring to?

Yes, something like that.

Most myths are started by those who have an overly simplistic understanding of how things work and based on that make inferences which are repeated by those who don't know any better.

Whoever started this notion that tubes are "open circuit" and transistors "open and close" so that with digital sources tubes "fill in the gaps" and transistors do not knows little or nothing about tubes, transistors, or digital audio.

[BrianM]

Yeah, I always thought an "open circuit" was something that needed to be located and repaired. But maybe that's something else entirely...Plus, vacuum tubes are also known as valves, and I never heard of a valve that didn't open and close.  However I'm the last person to get involved in a technical discussion.

[nodiak]

Besides a few already mentioned some ss amps I'd like to hear are the Musical Design D-75B, AKSA, and Monarchy SM70's. All said to be somewhat on the tube sounding side. Transcendent GG pre has tubes enclosed also, might be a good match. 
For diy amps MyRef RevC from Twisted Pear looks interesting, along with some other chip amps. Also SKA kits. Really mountains of stuff to look through, huh?  . Would love to hear it all and decide!
Any users comments on the above?

[Double Ugly]

I've recently switched from Butler Monad monoblocks (hybrids) to a Spectron Musician III Signature Edition.

I can't say it's a success story yet, and though I miss the 300B's sweetness (who wouldn't?), I'm thus far satisfied the Spectron as acquitted itself well at about one-third the retail price of the Butlers. 

Time will tell.

[Steve Eddy]

Yeah, I always thought an "open circuit" was something that needed to be located and repaired.

That's generally the case, yes.

But maybe that's something else entirely...

Well, in TheChairGuy's post, "open circuit" seems to relate to the vacuum within which the tube's electrodes exist. And yeah, if you have two terminals separated by a vacuum, air or some other insulator, you would have what amounts to an open circuit as there would be an exceedingly high impedance between those two terminals.

But if vacuum tubes were an open circuit as implied here, they simply wouldn't work because you wouldn't be able to get current to flow from the tube's cathode to its plate. So this whole notion that tubes are an "open circuit" because of the vacuum inside of them is a load of rubbish.

Plus, vacuum tubes are also known as valves, and I never heard of a valve that didn't open and close.

Ha! Quite so.

And ultimately, transistors are no less "valves" than tubes. Each are three terminal devices (in the case of the triode anyway) which use one terminal to control the flow of electrons between two other terminals. Both can be turned off, and in class B amplifiers where each half alternately handles half the signal while the other half is off, this is the case whether you're using tubes or transistors. Similarly, in class A amplifiers where the devices are always on and never turn off, this is also the case whether you're using tubes or transistors.

So I can't for the life of me figure out how someone could say what TheChairGuy claims someone said without their being utterly clueless about how tubes and transistors function.

However I'm the last person to get involved in a technical discussion.

Hey, you're applying some thought and reasoning so no reason you shouldn't get involved.

se

[carusoracer]

I've recently switched from Butler Monad monoblocks (hybrids) to a Spectron Musician III Signature Edition.

I can't say it's a success story yet, and though I miss the 300B's sweetness (who wouldn't?), I'm thus far satisfied the Spectron as acquitted itself well at about one-third the retail price of the Butlers. 

Time will tell.

So are you saying that it is a pretty good match in your system with money in your pocket?
I wonder how long it will last, I certainly appreciate hearing the comparisons. But man it would be hard to get over those beautiful Monads

[Double Ugly]

I've recently switched from Butler Monad monoblocks (hybrids) to a Spectron Musician III Signature Edition.

I can't say it's a success story yet, and though I miss the 300B's sweetness (who wouldn't?), I'm thus far satisfied the Spectron as acquitted itself well at about one-third the retail price of the Butlers. 

Time will tell.

So are you saying that it is a pretty good match in your system with money in your pocket?

Not really.  What I tried to convey is that, at one-third the price, the Spectron's performance is greater than one-third that of the Butlers. 

Sorry... guess I didn't say that too well. 

As I said, time will tell, but I'm pretty confident the Spectron will be here for the long haul.  The first couple of weeks were pretty bad, but things seem to be settling in nicely now.

Does it sound like a 300B?  Nope, but then what does?