[Ric Schultz]

The Behringer x-over when modified is going to take the speaker to another whole level.  I have been looking at the circuitry and man......way, way too much stuff in here.....The input stage, the output stage, the digital input stage and wiring, the clocking, power supplies, etc.  all need major work.  I will have a modified unit available sometime in early Jan. that I will ship around to Emerald Physics owners and dealers so they can really hear just how good the speaker is.  Stay tuned.  There will be mods at different price points and possibly an option for built in attenuators on the input.....so you could eliminate a preamp, if desired.

By the way, I signed up as a Emerald Physics dealer and after the 1st will have them set up here for those in the bay area to hear.

[doug s.]

hi ric,

ever consider modding deqx products?

regards,

doug s.

[Ric Schultz]

Doug,
Have too much on my plate as it is. 
Ric

[doug s.]

too bad - the only place i know modding these is ridiculously over-priced... 

doug s.

Doug,
Have too much on my plate as it is. 
Ric

[zybar]

The Behringer x-over when modified is going to take the speaker to another whole level.  I have been looking at the circuitry and man......way, way too much stuff in here.....The input stage, the output stage, the digital input stage and wiring, the clocking, power supplies, etc.  all need major work.  I will have a modified unit available sometime in early Jan. that I will ship around to Emerald Physics owners and dealers so they can really hear just how good the speaker is.  Stay tuned.  There will be mods at different price points and possibly an option for built in attenuators on the input.....so you could eliminate a preamp, if desired.

By the way, I signed up as a Emerald Physics dealer and after the 1st will have them set up here for those in the bay area to hear.

Congratulations Rick.

I would love to hear your modified DCX.

George

[TomS]

Ric,

Since a lot of CS2's are being delivered now, are there any plans to send a modded DCX on a tour?

Tom

[Ric Schultz]

Tom,
Yes, that is exactly what I meant when I said I will be sending it out to owners and dealers.  I may send several units around, since there will be ones at different price points.  TBD.  stay tuned.  You, George and Clayton (natch) are at the top of the list.  Everyone else, let me know by email or here if you want to hear one. 

FYI, there are 20 parts in the output stage that affect the sound.....17 parts on the input stage that affect the sound (per channel).....ordinary power supplies, clocking, poor signal routing, etc.....major surgery and reconstruction needed......a total face lift....with a boob job too!

[richidoo]

Ric, will you be offering your modded DCX units for sale by themselves without purchasing the speaker system?
Thanks
Rich

[TomS]

Tom,
Yes, that is exactly what I meant when I said I will be sending it out to owners and dealers.  I may send several units around, since there will be ones at different price points.  TBD.  stay tuned.  You, George and Clayton (natch) are at the top of the list.  Everyone else, let me know by email or here if you want to hear one. 

FYI, there are 20 parts in the output stage that affect the sound.....17 parts on the input stage that affect the sound (per channel).....ordinary power supplies, clocking, poor signal routing, etc.....major surgery and reconstruction needed......a total face lift....with a boob job too!

Sorry, old age has apparently dulled my reading comprehension.  My take is the only thing salvageable in there is the Sharc DSP and software.  The rest looks like junk but for $300 I can't complain.  Too bad there isn't a little more real estate in there to work with.  Looking forward to more info though.

[Ric Schultz]

Don't know if I will become a dealer, but you can send or have sent a Behringer here for mods.....they are around $269 delivered.  There are a few audiophiles and DIYers using this xover on their maggies, OB speakers, etc....so I can see some mods for others....but my main interest and excitement goes to getting these things to Emerald Physics owners so they can actually hear the speaker for the first time without all the veiling and grunge that this essentially mid-fi (the functionality is fantastic....but at $339 list how much tweaking can they put in?)product is adding.  I am sure it sounds good? stock but just looking at the circuitry and with what I know (through direct experience) with 30 years of modding tells me that you ain't heard notin yet.

[Ric Schultz]

Tom,
There is room enough in there to do some great mods......and if you really want to get crazy, you can add external power supplies (including possible monster battery power).  One could even take the front panel and boards and mount them in a larger chassis......all things are possible with a creative mind......and enough money....he he.  Fully modded, it will have close to no sound of its own (of course, I will get inquiries from those that want to add tube output stages to juice up the sound...he he)......don't think I will go there.  You can always add tube amps, preamps, and sources to add that lovely tube magic.

[JDUBS]

Ric

What are you thoughts on the analog input of the Behringer?  Just curious for those of us with analog sources.

Thanks,
Jim

p.s.  How's the recording coming?

[Bill Baker]

 Hello Rick,
 I too would be interested in hearing what you come up with. The gain controls are a great idea as this is the reason I have been installing them on some of our amps to be pair with the CS2 system.
 I will have mine hear after the new year as well and like everything audio, will be curius how far they can be taken. I have no desire in getting involved with such upgrades. I'll leave that up to the solid state guys

[Ric Schultz]

Jim,
The 17 parts on the input was the analog input......both analog and digital in need much help.  I will actually be first concentrating on the analog inputs as most will be using it that way.  Only a small number of Emerald Physics owners will use the Behringer as a DAC.  The analog volume control I mentioned would be on the input of the xover controlling volume, if desired.  It is also possible to make a six channel volume controller for the outputs....in fact there is one in production by someone already.  However, it is not pure enough for me.  I would rather have the single shunt attenuator on the analog input and deal with the difference in gain of the amps via slight digital manipulation (one amp slightly up, the other slightly down, if needed).  As long as the amps are relatively similar in gain then the digital control will not degrade the sound much, if any.  However, I have some ideas for a very pure volume control on the outputs, as well.........lots to try.

Question:  How much digital gain adjusting are you guys using?  One possible pure solution would be to have an analog volume control on the output of either the high pass or low pass only.  Then you would need no digital gain adjusting.....so many possibilities.

[TomS]

I'd be more concerned about using an extra analog in stage and A/D than the output DACs, so I'll be using digital input fixed to a high level from my Squeezebox, then control the gain on analog side of the 4 output DACs.  The DACs themselves could certainly be better, maybe AK4395's instead of AK4393's.  Not many people going to use external DACs as you'd need four channels worth, right?

[Ric Schultz]

Tom,
There are so many paths up the mountain.  Many people already have a DAC or player or turntable....so analog inputs are going to be used by many.   You only need a two channel DAC before the Behringer...obviously.  The Behringer has no digital outs so you could not use DACs after the Behringer. Those using servers with digital out and those with a CD/DVD transport could use the Behringer as crossover/DAC with pots/line stage built in or with external 4 channel preamp.   No turntables, SACD players, exotic CD/DVD players, double speed DSD master players could be listened to through the digital inputs.  The digital in needs a lot of work too.  Volume control on the analog outputs would make it a universal line stage for analog or digital in.......but if you are using analog in only, a volume control on the analog inputs would be simpler because you only need to control the two channels, whereas doing volume control on the outputs means control of 4 channels.

Maybe I should start a poll on how many are going to be using analog input versus digital inputs.....The server crowd is growing fast.  I still listen to SACDs, DVD-As and double speed DSD masters.

[TomS]

You're so right, lots of ways to go here.  I've roared down the single source, server based path and never looked back, whereas there are quite a few who don't or even won't choose that approach for many of the reasons you mention.  I have a very nice vinyl collection that is sadly not being used myself, but it's probably minuscule compared to some here.  Please don't remind me too much, as I'll start really missing all that music even more

Best of luck with your effort.  We'll look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Tom

[Ric Schultz]

All modded xovers are sold with a 30 day unconditional guarantee.  You place your order, I send you the xover just as you want and then you get to A/B with your stock Behringer (or modified one, for that matter).  If you decide to keep the modded unit, you send your stock one to me.  I would probably not want someones elses modded unit, so we would work something out.  This way, you are never without music and you get to hear for yourself if the mods are for you.  Of course, you are responsible for all shipping costs.

Here is a list of mods I will be doing and the approximate costs (prices are not fixed....I will change them when they are for "real"):

1. Hardwiring the AES digital input directly to the digital input transformer on the main board, bypassing the relay, board traces and stock wiring.  $40.  Add $20 for coax or BNC



2. Installing a board that would have three digital outs allowing Panny and TACT users to use the Behringer as a digital pass through.  Using this inexpensive mod and a couple of Panny 57 receivers ($500 for two) would get you pretty darn good sound for very little money.  The Panny receivers have remote control, so this is all you would need plus a digital source.  The Behringer would upsample its digital input to 24/96 and send it directly to the Pannies.  $300.



3. Modify the analog input stage by removing ALL its parts are replacing it with a super simple pure input stage that is hardwired directly to the main board pins bypassing the stock jumper cable.  This new A/D buffer is mounted on its own custom circuit board.  Also the A to D chip is changed to the latest, best chip and Blackgate and Wima caps are used with it.  $200.00



4.  Change both DACs to the AKM 4397 32bit chip that is three generations better than the stock one.  These DACs are mounted on custom made circuit boards.  Blackgate caps here too.  $200.  Alex cannot have all the fun with these chips.  He claims they are miles ahead of any other DAC in the world.  We will be one of the first companies in the world to offer these DACs.  We will be installing them in other machines like the Oppos and the Slim Devices SB2, SB3, Duet and Transporter.  (Optionally, you can have both DACS changed to the 24 bit AKM 4396 DACs for $125).

There is one modder who has replaced the original AKM DAC with one generation better.  Check out what he has to say about the DAC swap:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4c5pt/id14.html

The 32 bit DAC is two generations better!  Now check out Alex Peychev's "digital" forum and read the threads about his use of the 32 bit DAC.....especially the threads: 3.0-GO customer feedback and the 32 bit player, born Fri......
Especially notice what the people are saying about the difference between his old 2.5 player (last generation AKM DAC) and the new 3.0 (only difference that I know of is the use of the new 32 bit DAC chip).  Someone who had his 2.5 modded to 3.0 status told me that it was like going from bad digital to analog!

http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB



5.  Modify the analog output stages by completely removing ALL the parts (35 parts in each channel!?!) and replacing it with either:

A.  A completely simple pure passive stage consisting of a nude damped Blackgate cap bypassed by a Wima poly cap per phase and one Dale RN55 series resistor (we will need to experiment with this to see how much cable it can drive and if there is any problem having only one volt output per phase).....probably will be fine since the speakers (CS2's) are so efficient.  These caps/resistors would be hardwired directly from the 32bit DAC board to the pins on the output connectors.  $50 unbalanced and $100 balanced. Upgrade to latest nude Vishay resistor on output would be $75 for unbalanced and $150 for balanced.

B.  Replacing it with our own single op amp based output stage directly coupled to the output jacks.  $150 unbalanced and $250 balanced.  These active output stages are on the DAC board so the signal path is super short.

C.  Replacing it with our own discrete fet output stage?  May need to fit into separate chassis.  $500????



6.  Muting options.

No muting: Minor turn on and turn off surge.  Free
Stock transistor: however, slight loss of transparency.  Free
Using relay and timers: No loss of transparency.  Unbalanced $50, balanced $100.



7.  Installing a shunt attenuator on the back of the Behringer that will allow precise and pure volume control.  This 4 pole 24 position switch would be hand wired with 92 resistors.  They would be shunted between the phases on the output of the DAC before the output buffer (whether op amp or discrete based).  This will give the absolute best sound but will require you to go to the xover and turn the knob.  $350?  You have to have one of the active output stage mods for this mod.



8.  Installing the Didden input/output stage that has remote control volume.  This will give the best sound for those that "must" have remote control volume.  Not as pure sounding as above but will be modified by EVS for more pure sound than stock.  $800?



9. Superclock 4 replacing the clock in the Sample Rate Converter/Input Receiver. This clock essentially "runs" the Behringer at 24/96 so is real important.  $350.  This upgrade can be added anytime.



10. Option for unbalanced input/output jacks.  $20 per jack ($40 per pair) for OFC Soundconnections and TBD for other jacks including Nexgen WBTs.  This will allow you to use your regular interconnects and not have to have adapters or re terminate your cable.  Mixing unbalanced and balanced can be done.....another words, you could have unbalanced ins and balanced outs.....or the other way around....or one amp balanced and the other unbalanced.  However, all inputs or outputs have to be one way or the other (not both).  I can also do any kind of digitial input jack including BNC. 


11. Modify the Switching supply for better sound and or replace entirely with linear supply.  TBD.


12. Run the clock off batteries and possibly the whole thing off batteries.  TBD.


Here are some possible combos/options of the above:

1.  Person using digital input only and is using Panny receivers.
$300 for digital outs
$40 for digital in option
$350 for Superclock option

2.  Person using digital input only and wants volume control (unbalanced).
$40 for digital in ($20 more for coax or bnc)
$200 for DAC upgrade
$150 for output stage mod.
$350? for attenuator
$350 for Superclock
$80 for OFC Soundconnections jacks

3. Person using analog input and volume control (unbalanced)
$200 for analog input mod
$200 for DAC upgrade
$150 for output stage upgrade
$350? for Attenuator
$350 for Superclock
$120 for coax jacks

4. Person using analog input and no volume control (unbalanced, using existing preamp in front of Behringer)
$200 for analog input mod
$200 for DAC upgrade
$150 for output stage upgrade or $50 if passive stage will work
$350 for Superclock
balanced analog output add $100
digital input mod add $40 if using both analog and digital in.
$120 for coax jacks on in and out

5. Person using digital in and wants remote volume
$40 for digital in
$800? for modified Didden board
$200 for upgraded DACs
$350 for Superclock 4

There are lots of possibilities but it is not complicated.


There are many people now offering mods on the Behringer, but I feel there is nothing quite like what I am offering.  There are 35 parts (just recounted) in the output stage.....replacing a few parts with better ones is not going to give you much benefit.....you need to completely remove it and replace it with a purer stage....same with the input stage. You really must change the ADC and DACs for best sound.  Hardwiring all inputs and output is a must too.  I have been modifying gear since the late 70s and hold to one philosophy.....make it as pure and transparent as possible and give the best value.  The Behringer has amazing potential, but at $339 list it cannot have simple pure great circuits or parts.  The Emerald Physics CS2 speakers (or any other speakers) using our modified Behringer will bring you sound that will amaze you.  Looking forward to serving you.




 

[Ric Schultz]

Yo!!!!  Lots of updates above.  Especially important is the 32 bit DACs and the option for coax jacks.  Call for more info.  No one else is doing anything near as tweaky as these mods.  You will be blown away!  831-338-2896.

[NealH]

Yo!!, also a lot of money being eaten up in those mods when you add'em up.   Being that Emerald Physics is launching a new high-end DCX in the near future, so I understand, it might serve one well to wait and see what it brings to the table.