buying electric guitar for first time player

jackman · « **Reply #20 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 12:11 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 1 Dec 2007, 06:52 am

slow_down....

Here's a good starter set on Craigs List-Chicago......

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/msg/493050706.html

jackman has mentioned the Gibson Melody Maker(reissued)...it would be a step up...good guitar to start out with....

http://www.gibson.com/Files/AllAccess/2007/Flash/MelodyMaker/video.swf

I still remember my first "real" electric....a '65 Fender Mustang....red.
I should of kept it...was fun to play.

Here's a '66 Mustang

Very cool Mustang. It's funny you mentioned the Mustang because I always thought of the Mustang as the Fender "Melody Maker". It's a great basic guitar that is simple and fun to play. Also, good clip on the Melody Maker. Musiciansfriend is blowing out the two pickup version for 305 dollars, delivered with no tax. That's a killer deal. Personally, I would jump on the white one.

Slowdown, here is the link to the Melody Maker sale: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-Les-Paul-Melody-Maker-Dual-Pickup-Electric-Guitar?sku=512641X
The Squier '51 is a totally different animal. Check out the Squier Modders site to see what guys have done to their 51's. These guitars are very durable and cool looking/sounding. I don't know if your link was a trustworthy seller but the price is decent. Check out the link below and go to the upper box that says "Ebay" and it will direct you to all of the current '51's on ebay. I have black and sunburst but the blonde is hard to get. I think the blonde looks coolest but that's a personal preference.

http://www.instituteofnoise.com/squier51/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=891

Blonde for $99: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190178722740

Here is a good video of a guy (Robert) demonstrating the pickups on his Squier '51. His guitar in the picture is unmodified (except for the pickguard which he changed to black). This video gives you a good idea about the range of this guitar, but don't expect to play like Robert anytime soon. He has been playing for a long time and is a good player. Please note, his amp, a Vox Valvetronix has built-in affects!
http://www.dolphinstreet.com/video_clips/video-7.php

Here are a couple other clips of Robert playing the '51. Pretty cool for a cheap guitar:

http://www.dolphinstreet.com/video_clips/video-33.php

http://www.dolphinstreet.com/video_clips/video-34.php

http://www.dolphinstreet.com/video_clips/video-35.php

slow_down · « **Reply #21 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: drphoto on 1 Dec 2007, 04:49 am

Hey Slow-down.....sorry if I got your thread a bit off topic. The gist of it is just get something and start playing. The first time you can play a reasonable version of your favorite song (or hell, even a few bars ) it will blow your mind. I've had a lot of hobbies, and this is by far the most fun.

No worries - this is a really cool discussion and the meandering is leading to all sorts of fun stuff.

I didn't realize youtube is such a great source for seeing a lot of these guitars in action. There are like a million different videos of the stratocaster alone!

Lots of great recommendations so far, but based on some more research at harmony-central, a hard look at ebay, and some killer user videos at youtube, I'm beginning to think a new fender standard strat ($399) bought from a local Guitar Center might be my best bet. Seems like they hold their value OK and are almost universally loved. Used from ebay I could probably get a great deail, but bought new from a brick and mortar shop I think would help if I need expert help with anything I need via setup and guidance (I presume and hope Guitar Center's employees know more about guitars than Best Buy employees know about HDTV's).

If I end up playing guitar as a longtime hobby, the standard strat seems like it will fit the bill for many years without a compelling need to upgrade. And if I end up ignoring it, could always sell it for decent value a year or two down the road. Just seems like with almost all the other guitars, there's lots of praise, but questions too, whereas the Fender Strat is so established that one can't wrong with it.

As far as the extra cost? Can you say Christmas gift card from the family? Hopefully that'll subsidize it!

Lastly, what specific books/tapes (if you know of any) would you recommend to get one started playing? I'm happy to hear people here are meh on lessons, but obviously I need some kind of resource to learn from. To be honest, I don't even know what kind of styles of music a beginner can feasibly start out on. My favorite guitar music right now is fairly varied, but almost entirely grounded in rock & roll. Listening to a lot of Clapton lately, but also love John Frusciante (of the RHCP), Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth, and boringly enough, love The Edge - especially his playing on Achtung Baby. I figure I'd be able to mimick 1% of what these guys do in about ten years. What do I do until then?

drphoto · « **Reply #22 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 06:01 pm »

slow-down, I highly recommend the software called coincidently 'The Amazing Slowdowner'....which allows you to slow down song, while maintaining pitch (or change pitch if you want to play in a different key) You can purchase and download here: http://www.ronimusic.com/

If you get this, you must rip your CD to your hard drive, it can't handle a data stream from a CD directly. The cool thing, is you can process a song, then burn back to a CD and play in your audio rig.

If you can't read standard musical notation, there are lots of "tabs" available either on the web or in books. A tab notation is a little picture of the strings that shows you where to put your fingers. ultimate-guitar.com has a bunch. The bad thing about tabs(at least the ones on the web) is they carry no temporal information.

As far as books, take a look at the Guitar Center. Some are written in std. notes, others, tab or mixed. Some are geared more toward rock than others, which you would probably prefer.

BTW: if you have a friend who can play, I would take them w/ you to demo the guitar. Fender's std. Strats, which are the Mexi's are much more consistant in quality now than they used to be, but there will still be gems and duds in any given lot. This is true of pretty much any brand though. Some wood is just better than others.

drphoto · « **Reply #23 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 06:24 pm »

Oh, one other thing, it's important that the guitar is setup correctly. Things like correct tension in the neck truss rod, string intonation, etc. This is where having an experienced player go with you will also help.

Get someone to show you how to change string. Lot's of beginners never change them, or at a loss if they break one. I change mine at least once a month now. A cheap tool called a peg winder will help.

Don't bother w/ coated strings like Elixers. Get a polish rag, and some guitar polish and wipe the strings (and the rest) after every session.

Buy a tuner. I have a Korg GA-30 that's around $15 and it works fine.

I don't know anything about it, but the new Musician's Friend catalog shows a new 5 watt Class A tube amp called the 'Little Giant' from Blackheart Engineering that looks really interesting. $250 for the stack. Even has a 12" speaker. Guitar amps need at least a 10" Stay away from any so called practice amps w/ 8". My girlfriend has the Vox Valvetronic 15 w/ an 8" and it sucks. My Roland Cube blows it away and was less expensive.

slow_down · « **Reply #24 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 08:56 pm »

I used to play trombone and obviously read music for that, but have no idea how it works for guitar. As far as setup, I hope that if you buy a new guitar from Guitar Center, that it comes set up? And I will definitely download the trial version of that slowdowner software once I get a guitar.

Went to Guitar Center today and held a Fender Standard Stratocaster and Telecaster, and an Epiphone Les Paul. Didn't even bother plugging any in because I didn't feel like I would be able to tell anything. Weight and feel-wise, they were fine, I guess. Looks-wise the strat was the most bad-ass, the Tele a little more vintage-y looking but still very cool, and the Les Paul I was meh on. Man is the strat a cool classic looking guitar.

One feeling that really set in as I stood there holding the guitars, not having any idea how to do anything with them, was that just owning a nice guitar is completely meaningless if you don't know how to play. Of course I knew that before, but didn't really feel the distance between me and someone who knows how to play until I held an actual guitar in my arms. Earlier in the morning I had watched various "amateurs" on youtube just shredding on their strats to some of my favorite classic and modern rock songs. So holding that same guitar but being able to do nothing was a little humbling.

Here's a silly youtube clip that nonetheless got me stoked earlier. As I've grown older and wiser, I've come to realize just how dorky a band U2 is. Still, in high school and college I remember being blown away by some of the Edge's guitar in Achtung Baby, espcially on The Fly, and I still very much enjoy it. So seeing this seventeen year old kid on youtube obviously having a blast playing his own instrumental version of it, even though he kinda does maybe only half the notes of the original solo - that's what I want to do!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pwAmwzZodFs

Incidentally, he's apparently using a lot of accessories with his strat to get that sound - he notes: strat + dyna + ts9(solo) + wha + od-2 + memorylane + ac30

What is all that stuff? I can tell he's using a pedal from the video, but what's the other stuff?

srb · « **Reply #25 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 09:23 pm »

Quote from: slow_down on 1 Dec 2007, 08:56 pm

Incidentally, he's apparently using a lot of accessories with his strat to get that sound - he notes: strat + dyna + ts9(solo) + wha + od-2 + memorylane + ac30

What is all that stuff? I can tell he's using a pedal from the video, but what's the other stuff?

Most likely, the

'ts9' = Ibanez Tube Screamer overdrive distortion pedal
'wha' = Dunlop Crybaby Wha-Wha pedal
'od-2' = Boss OD-2 Turbo Overdrive pedal
'memorylane' = Diamond Memory Lane analog delay pedal with tap tempo control
'ac30' = Vox AC30 30W classic tube amplifier

The 'dyna' might be the MXR M-102 Dyna Comp compressor pedal or the Boss DN-2 Dyna Drive overdrive pedal.

drphoto · « **Reply #26 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 09:32 pm »

Hey slowdown, yeah, I think Edge is cool, I dunno if U2 is dorky....maybe a little self absorbed, but that's another discussion. Anyway, he's obviously using digital delays as part of his signature sound. I'm not experienced enough to know exactly what he's using. He does play through vintage Vox AC-30s, which is my dream amp.

Don't get too caught up in effects and stuff early on. I tested a Line 6 Pod Live XT multieffects pedal board a few weeks ago, and decided to pass, at least for now. I realized I need to concentrate on playing rather than playing w/ technology.

Last night, just for giggles, I was playing really heavy stuff like Metallica and Judas Priest through my clean channel (on my Roland) Sort of my own version of MTV Unplugged. It was pretty cool IMHO.

If you are totally lost.....then maybe you do need lessons. Some one to show you how to position you hands, etc.

Just wondering......can you sing? I don't mean American Idol finalist, but able to hold tune? I have this theory that singing is and indicator of musical aptitude. Unfortunately, I can't 'carry a tune in a bucket', so I'm fighting an uphill battle.

We have these parties where we get together and play and sing (and of course, drink a lot) and it is way too fun. It only works because I have the amazingly talented friend who know like a thousand songs and can lead the whole thing. The good players can jump in and take a solo, and the lesser ones can hang in where they can. The non players get to sing to their own ability.

Sorry I keep jabbering on, but I just love this stuff. I wish they would bring back the Musican Circle.

BTW: trombone is written is bass clef (I think) so it won't translate directly, but at least you know about note valuation, etc.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #27 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 09:46 pm »

Having been through school for a music related degree and observed a wide variety of my peers, I can say safely say that you don't necessarily have to be able to hold a tune really well to play music well

Another (lousy) trombone player checking in. Yes, it's in bass clef. If you want to read notation, get used to reading chords. I suck at that. Piano training would help...I suck at that, too.

slow_down · « **Reply #28 on:** 1 Dec 2007, 10:16 pm »

I figure I'm gonna start off with a self-instruction book like Rock Guitar for Dummies or maybe Modern Guitar Method by Mel Bay and see how that goes. As far as reading music, yep, bass v treble isn't the big deal, but maybe dealing with chords is, plus I haven't read any sheet music since maybe ninth grade (long time ago for me).

"dorky" might be the wrong adjective for U2. "Overrated" is probably a better one. I distinctly remember saying to someone during freshman year of college "U2 is our Beatles, man!" Oh how foolish was I! I still feel that Achtung Baby was a pretty revolutionary album at the time and holds up well though, and "The Fly" is just a spectacularly aggressive and beautiful song. The Edge makes the craziest sounds with his guitar, and I'm sure uses a lot of gizmo's, so I should probably focus on more "natural" sounding players to mimic earlier on, right?

drphoto · « **Reply #29 on:** 2 Dec 2007, 06:09 am »

Slowdown, we've been encouraging you to this point, but I want to issue a warning. Unless you happen to be some sort of prodigy, you will be in for a miserable experience for a while. Your fingers will hurt, and you'll make noise that sound like cats being strangled. You will wonder why you wasted the money and the time. And you will question why you listened to idiots like us in the first place.

slow_down · « **Reply #30 on:** 2 Dec 2007, 02:28 pm »

Quote from: drphoto on 2 Dec 2007, 06:09 am

Slowdown, we've been encouraging you to this point, but I want to issue a warning. Unless you happen to be some sort of prodigy, you will be in for a miserable experience for a while. Your fingers will hurt, and you'll make noise that sound like cats being strangled. You will wonder why you wasted the money and the time. And you will question why you listened to idiots like us in the first place.

Are you saying I'm gonna sound more like this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-zqCsivq4

I think he's playing a strat too

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #31 on:** 2 Dec 2007, 02:34 pm »

The secret to being a good guitar player......

Practice.....Practice......Practice.....

Even Stevie could hit a bad note....once in awhile....

jackman · « **Reply #32 on:** 3 Dec 2007, 01:41 pm »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=102&pos=6

Great shot of SRV! One of my top two favorites (along with Jimi).

Slow-down,

I heard that Guitarcenter still has some Highway One strats on clearance for $388. If you can get this deal, I'd jump all over it. That is an American made guitar with nitro finish and very high quality. They sell used on Ebay for over $500. Several guys on Harmonycentral hit this deal last week. I missed out, unfortunately. This guitar is higher quality (IMO) and more fun to play than any MIM or MIJ Fender I have ever played. I have tried several MIM's and have owned the MIJ Strat in the picture. It was a great guitar but the reissues have "vintage" frets and vintage neck radius, which I never warmed up to. The guitar had a beautiful one piece swamp ash body and was under 7lbs (very light and resonant). The nitro finish on the American models is cooler, IMO because it will age nicely, like a vintage guitar.

Good luck!

J

drphoto · « **Reply #33 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 12:03 am »

So what's the word? Did you buy something?

slow_down · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 02:02 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 20 Dec 2007, 12:03 am

So what's the word? Did you buy something?

Felt it'd be bad form to post on this before Christmas, but I guess you could say Christmas came a little early for me this year.

It's an '04 Mexican Standard Strat.

I actually just got back from my first lesson. The good news is my instructor gave it the once over and said it was just dandy - nice low action and decent feel, although he did say the neck felt a tad wider than what he's used to.

The bad news is that guitar is really, really really hard to play, and just demolishes your fingers!!! Fingers #1,2 and 3 are killing me. My pinky not so much - turns out my central nervous system hasn't even figured out how to move it and #3 independantly so pinky saw very little action. Some of the chords I literally couldn't get my fingers into position for. But other chords I did, and had a fun time with them.

drphoto · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 06:45 pm »

Sweeet! Love that Dauphin Blue. Yup, your fingers will hurt for some time. And once you think they've gotten callused enough, you'll start sliding notes and chords and bending strings and they'll hurt all over again.

Just remember.....the learning curve is not linear! You'll start to think you'll never get something, and then....bang....it will be there.

Playing makes every other aspect of being a music fan more fun. I have a much greater apprectiation of guys like Eddie VH, Stevie Ray, etc. than before.

The hard part is too not get depressed about the difficulty and just giving up, especially when you think about young kids who just seem to naturally learn to play in a few months or so.

As I posted elsewhere, I got to play a few songs w/ a band last week and it was really cool. So hang in there!

Is your teacher starting off in the traditional fashion w/ open chords? You'll need to know them, but get 'em to show you 'power' or '5th' chords too.....then you can start rockin' straight away.

BTW: what amp did you get?

slow_down · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 10:29 pm »

Did mostly open chords, a very brief foray into bar chords which was impossible, and some rhythm/strumming exercises which surprisingly was harder than I thought. Last night's lesson was sort of a one time deal. In January I'm probably gonna start regular lessons at a music school in my town.

Incidentally I can't really feel some of the fingertips on my left hand right now:) Calluses cannot come soon enough!

My amp is a Roland microcube - tiny but sounds nice, takes batteries and plugs in, and has a bunch of fun effects. It got great reviews everywhere I looked and was moderately priced.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the whole deal!

drphoto · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 04:30 am »

I love my Roland Cube 30. As stated in earlier post, it doesn't sound like a real tube amp on distortion, but it's passable. Really nice clean sound. Best amp for the money IMHO. Roland stuff is bulletproof. Good choice there.

Keep me posted on your progress, even through PM if you want. I wish you the best....it is a lot of fun (believe it or not)

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #38 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 08:40 am »

I happened to be "surfing around" and I came across this site...
looked interesting...might be helpful....
Lick By Neck......

drphoto · « **Reply #39 on:** 30 Dec 2007, 01:58 am »

This what Santy Claws brought me for Xmas. (thank you Miss N!)

American 57 Reissue.

Hope I can learn to play it as good as it looks.