[scott_man]

Dear Gurus:

I am moving into a new home and combining my 2-channel audio system with video for the first time in about 10 years.  I have also decided that it is probably time to do something about power conditioning/filtering.

My system would probably be considered mid-fi.  It consists of a:
Class-D/T power amp,
Preamp (Muse),
DVD/CD (heavily modified Toshiba unit),
VCR,
Cassette Tape,
Tuner,
Cable Box,
32” LCD TV,
Gaming console.
And, I would like to add a digital media center.

So, 10 “plugs” with different power requirements, feedback, RF, etc.

I know that dedicated AC is a good first step, unfortunately, there isn’t a feasible way to pull another line from the electrical panel to the room right now (future remodeling may allow for this option).

I would like to provide my equipment with some form of protection and also add something to the system that improves (or at least doesn’t compromise) the audio and video quality of the system.  My target budget is $500-600.  Used equipment is OK.

I have done a lot of research on this web-site and other sites – balanced power, filters, power generation, etc.  I was just about ready to go with a balance power unit and a power strip from Transcendent or Goertz when I ran across a tread about the potential safety risks of using balanced power for residential applications.   Now, I am more confused than when I started this search.

Suggestions and advice on what to buy and also what to avoid would be greatly appreciated.  I realize that at the $500 – 600 price point, I will need to make some compromises – however, safety, decreased performance, and added background noise (fan noise) are not options on the table.

Thanks in advance.

Scott

[satfrat]

I'd suggest a used BPT, either a BP-2.0 or a BP-2.5 and plug everything into it. Audiogon had a BP-2.5 last week for $700. You don't find used ones often and they're not available for long, which is a testement to their usefullness. 

Robin

ps, a BP-2.5 requires a 20a circuit with a 20a outlet!

[musicman06]

I have  a Transparent Powerlink Ultra. Has 8 outlets snagged it off eBay for $325 new, though the model is a bit dated now. Not sure if it adds anything which is both a plus and a minus. I have everything including the amp plugged into it. Doesn't seem to restrict power or colour the sound any. I haven't noticed any real improvement in sound, however this is not generally expected. It provides good surge protection as well.

 

[TheChairGuy]

Since 2002, balanced power has been written into the electrical code.  The primary proponent of this has been Equi=Tech and Martin Glasband:

http://www.equitech.com/support/support.html

That said, I've owned a very good BPT-2.0 Ultra...and while it provided an inky-black quietness to the background (giving the quite welcome illusion of greater depth, etc.) it ultimately made the sound less-than-real and sounded strained (whether my amps or just other components were plugged into it or not).

It was sold, the wall supplies the electricity needed now....and my system sounds more natural than it ever did.

So, I experienced the very real benefits of balanced power....but ultimately found that it had too many downsides to keep it around long term 

I can't speak of other makers versions of it, but the BPT just added a layer of unwanted sonics in amongst the generally quieter background 
 

[satfrat]

Here we go again,,,, 

[satfrat]

Here we go again,,,, 

Yes, imagine that, not everyone has had the exact same experience as you have with power conditioning. 

 

[TheChairGuy]

   

Addendum: I've also owned the PS Audio Power Plant 300, a balanced and regenerative power unit, and the result was much the same as with the BPT: inky blackness that was appreciated, but an even greater level of grit and grain added to the sonic mix.

It may be that balanced does work as intended, but at least these two examples had other ingredients added that weren't appreciated.

I still think about all the positive benefits they added (for one, I did not need to hook up the grounding wire from my TT...it was completely sealed off from noise just by hooking the system up thru the BPT, for instance.  In fact, if I hooked up the ground wire, the phono would then begin humming  )

The newest PS Audio Soloist/Duet and Quintet seem interesting as they claim differential and common mode noise reduction AND do so with a more passive nature than other balanced power conditioners.

[lcrim]

My experience has been that balanced power is the only power conditioning format that has worked for me.  Also, if devices employing light, inexpensive switch mode power supplies are not somehow separated from all other current draws, they send their switching noise back into the system.  While I don't own an Equitech (I have an inexpensive Transcendent Sound balanced power transformer built from a kit w/a filter that Wayne of Bolder Cables built) I believe that the Equitech's separate each duplex receptacle so that each is isolated.  I have my Transcendent unit around the corner in the kitchen where its a tossup as to whats louder the hum from its transformer or the refrigerator compressor.
Even my HDTV and the directv receiver benefit noticeably from balanced power.  My KAB Technics 1200 MKII's upgraded power supply  and my EE MM phono section are on a separate and straight 120 AC wall current not the balanced power circuit as the noise at the high gains involved is less, go figure!

[kyrill]

hi

i am like in your shoes, needing wise

and its mostly about money.
the better conditioners are expensive and you dont see them second hand too often.

I believe in good balanced power conditioners which are passively parallel filtered with at least
Vishay Roederstein caps quality

and every unit having its own separate bal transformer so you "shield" them also from each other

the one you need for yr power amp has to be big and they are very exp. I would use only passive parallel filtering for those.

So i concluded to make my own ones
according to
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/catch2.htm  with also help from
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze22yzp/id12.html

i order noise surpression caps from mouser.com, every primary side of the transformer between hot and neutral gets one cap type: Vishay/Roederstein F1710 Y2 Suppression Capacitors
0.1uF 250V 20%  these are also safe Y2 means they open when fail. so no shorcut

I put them in wooden self made boxes of 2.3 cm thick wood, inside glued with kitchen aluminum foil connected to ground.

remember you need rfi rejecting power cords of all your powercords. So use twisted power wires it all adds up. makes then yourself or buy very very good ones 10 times their price worth: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue6/signalcable.htm
begin with the source, than preamp and power amps as last if you cannot afford all of them at the same time
that is what i would do. It is fun building this for yourself and WAY cheaper

there is a bit more expensive but better sounding balanced trafo for the preamp, not power amp. called Felicia:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18443.0

i have 3 Blu Circle passive filtering devices. I started with one but they are so good i ordered 2 more
relative very reasonable priced and they work!! http://bluecircle.com/index.php?menu_id=1755
there are only fav. reviews on the net, for example:
http://www.audiotweaks.com/reviews/bc86mk2/page03.htm

[ctviggen]

Since 2002, balanced power has been written into the electrical code.  The primary proponent of this has been Equi=Tech and Martin Glasband:

http://www.equitech.com/support/support.html

That's true, but the code is very restrictive (and for good reasons):

647.3  General.  Use of a separately derived 120-volt single-phase 3-wire system with 60 volts on each of two ungrounded conductors to a grounded neutral conductor shall be permitted for the purpose of reducing objectionable noise in sensitive electronic equipment locations provided that the following conditions apply.
(1)  The system is installed only in commercial or industrial occupancies.
(2)  The system's use is restricted to areas under close supervision by qualified personnel.
(3)  All of the requirements in 647.4 through 647.8 are met.

[opaqueice]

I would like to provide my equipment with some form of protection and also add something to the system that improves (or at least doesn’t compromise) the audio and video quality of the system.  My target budget is $500-600.  Used equipment is OK.

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=110

[kyrill]

be warned
many surge protectors do their work if perfectly as seen by the manufacturer to do just that: protection

in an audio setup the question how do they sound" is out of the minds of those designers
they can sound afwul

[opaqueice]

be warned
many surge protectors do their work if perfectly as seen by the manufacturer to do just that: protection

in an audio setup the question how do they sound" is out of the minds of those designers
they can sound afwul

I seriously doubt that.  If it's good enough to power life support machines at a hospital, it's good enough for a freakin' stereo system.

But if the knowledge that your power strip only cost $30 keeps you awake at night, you can try these:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/audiovideo/power_centers.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/Tripplite-Ht810Isoctr-8-Outlet-Console-Center/dp/B000MOVIO6/ref=sr_1_5/104-6897681-2551105?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1194092384&sr=1-5

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Tripp%20Lite%20Isobar%20Audio%2FVideo%20Power%20Center%20HT1210ISOCTR%20Surge%20Suppressor:1994624928

Tripp Lite's taken a little venture into audiophool land, it looks like...

[satfrat]

be warned
many surge protectors do their work if perfectly as seen by the manufacturer to do just that: protection

in an audio setup the question how do they sound" is out of the minds of those designers
they can sound afwul

I seriously doubt that.  If it's good enough to power life support machines at a hospital, it's good enough for a freakin' stereo system.

But if the knowledge that your power strip only cost $30 keeps you awake at night, you can try these:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/audiovideo/power_centers.cfm

Tripplite's taken a little venture into audiophool land, it looks like.

Fact remains it's true. There's a big differnce in protecting electrical components and cleaning crappy power. Power strips will give you extra outlets,,, more means to spread your crappy power, that's all folks. 

Robin

[opaqueice]

Fact remains it's true. There's a big differnce in protecting electrical components and cleaning crappy power. Power strips will give you extra outlets,,, more means to spread your crappy power, that's all folks. 

I see - so you're saying all this:

Tripp Lite Isobar® Audio/Video Power Centers
Featuring exclusive Isobar surge suppressor technology, Tripp Lite Power Centers provide best-in-class protection and guarantee ultimate performance for all audio/video components—high-definition LCD or plasma TVs, satellite and A/V receivers, multi-disk DVD changers, CD players, digital video recorders (TiVo®), subwoofers and more!

Protect Components Against Surge Damage
# Provide best protection ratings in their class—up to 5700 joules!
# Include highest insurance coverage in their class—up to $150,000!

Improve Component Performance
# Filter disruptive line noise for fuller audio and sharper video
# Provide extra level of filtering between components with exclusive Isobar isolated filter banks
# Deliver full HD-compatibility for optimum video quality

is a lie?  All that filtering is going to make your system sound worse? 

Now, I don't know much about this company, but I do know they're a major manufacturer, and I also happen to know that some of their products are used in scientific labs to power extremely sensitive measurement gear.  I'm told (as I mentioned above) hospitals use them too. 

If I have to choose between some $2000 audiophool power product and one of these, I know what I'm going to do.

[kyrill]

OK
only one way to be sure
find at least 2 different reviews on the net of that particular power bar in audio trustworthy magazines
or even better try it at home

DON"T TRUST marketing HYPE
marketing cannot think for you and most marketing departments consider you as SHEEP with the brain of  SHEEP anyway.

and don't compare sensitive lab equipment or medical equipment with audio equipment, high end ( not in price but in quality of delivering music) is 1000x more sensitive to power and components audio properties then non audio equipment, because your ear and brain are infinite more sensitive to contrast real life sounds to reproduced sounds

[opaqueice]

OK
only one way to be sure
find at least 2 different reviews on the net of that particular power bar in audio trustworthy magazines

Yeah, good point.  The best way to evaluate performance is a review in an industry advertising-supported publication.

DON"T TRUST marketing HYPE

Hmm....

marketing cannot think for you and most marketing departments consider you as SHEEP with the brain of  SHEEP anyway.

I guess it all depends what herd you belong to.

and don't compare sensitive lab equipment or medical equipment with audio equipment, high end ( not in price but in quality of delivering music) is 1000x more sensitive to power and components audio properties then non audio equipment, because your ear and brain are infinite more sensitive to contrast real life sounds to reproduced sounds

Really?  Ears/brain are more sensitive than state-of-the-art measuring devices in physics labs?  I guess everyone should stop using them then - what a waste of time.  From now on they can just pipe the data through some speakers and listen to it!

[satfrat]

Fact remains it's true. There's a big differnce in protecting electrical components and cleaning crappy power. Power strips will give you extra outlets,,, more means to spread your crappy power, that's all folks. 

I see - so you're saying all this:

Tripp Lite Isobar® Audio/Video Power Centers
Featuring exclusive Isobar surge suppressor technology, Tripp Lite Power Centers provide best-in-class protection and guarantee ultimate performance for all audio/video components—high-definition LCD or plasma TVs, satellite and A/V receivers, multi-disk DVD changers, CD players, digital video recorders (TiVo®), subwoofers and more!

Protect Components Against Surge Damage
# Provide best protection ratings in their class—up to 5700 joules!
# Include highest insurance coverage in their class—up to $150,000!

Improve Component Performance
# Filter disruptive line noise for fuller audio and sharper video
# Provide extra level of filtering between components with exclusive Isobar isolated filter banks
# Deliver full HD-compatibility for optimum video quality

is a lie?  All that filtering is going to make your system sound worse? 

Now, I don't know much about this company, but I do know they're a major manufacturer, and I also happen to know that some of their products are used in scientific labs to power extremely sensitive measurement gear.  I'm told (as I mentioned above) hospitals use them too. 

If I have to choose between some $2000 audiophool power product and one of these, I know what I'm going to do.

Didn't say Tripplite doesn't make audio grade conditioners. I'm disagreeing with Your statement that Trpplite conditioners  made for hostipal equipment is good enough for high end audio components. It's not,,,, and I'm not saying it'll do nothing either. I'm saying it's not made to optimumly work with audio components and it's the audiophool who thinks it will. It's been tried and it's been discarded a long time ago. If you don't want to spend good money for good conditioning, then don't. But don't call those who do audiophools. Money can often be saved by buying used also. Hell that's true with any component, just go to A'gon and see the 50% off  2 year old components.


Robin

[sts9fan]

checkout apc's line H15 would suite your needs

[kyrill]

by the way good reading "what is actually stated and what do I assume" and good listening may have an analogue connection.

A lot of ppl who read carelessly, dont know either  how  to listen, to what they hear. but listen to their mind assumptions instead.

Those will be very happy with line conditioners made for hospital equipment