[2bigears]

what makes the Lamm ML2 worth almost 30k.what is inside those tiny enclosures???? how $$$$ can good parts get.sure like to hear those puppies,must sound real good.

[zybar]

Another thread like this?

Didn't we beat this to death in a thread around Wilson speakers?

Are we just going to keep picking expensive items and doing this again and again?

George

[2bigears]

oppps,is it the same deal as that thread.i just saw a set of those tiny little amps on AG and was wondering what the hell can be in those to tag them in at 30 large . no more dumb questions!!!!

[miklorsmith]

Boy would I love some Lamm monos.   

[2bigears]

   ---- come on now,you don't really want them as they are just over-priced goods,just like Wilson Puppies

[BrianM]

Another thread like this?

Didn't we beat this to death in a thread around Wilson speakers?

Are we just going to keep picking expensive items and doing this again and again?

George

It's one thing to state that an amp shouldn't cost x amount. It's another to wonder why exactly it costs x amount.  The latter's an interesting question (to me anyway).  Lamm can charge whatever the hell they want, I don't care.  I would just wonder how they arrived at, say, 30 grand (nice round number?).  I would assume profit margins are a well-guarded secret but I don't know all that much about the manufacturing side of audio components.

[macrojack]

Legitimate question. $30,000 is a lot of money. It's all well and good to rhapsodize over what comes out of the box but I think the topic of what goes in is fair game. These are not one of a kind collectibles, they are mass-produced consumer goods. The only thing that keeps these from flying off the assembly line at 500 units/hour is the lack of sufficient demand.
Much as we might like to think so, they are not works of art -- they are appliances.

If 2bigears wants to know why Lamm amps cost so much, you have to step aside and allow the inquiry, George.
Why does this topic bother you so much?

[2bigears]

  hell-ya.i bet they can make,sell, and still profit at ....say 10 grand.a good tube amp,point to point wire job is mostly an empty box.what gives??

[BrianM]

Why does this topic bother you so much?

Only guessing, but maybe because, as the owner of some expensive gear himself, he doesn't care to hear people questioning (directly or indirectly) why he might have paid x amount for what he has, as you appear to do. I would say, you or anybody has the right to bring it up, and others have the right to take offense, and the green grass grows all around and around.  Making moral judgments about it is kinda silly, because where the heck does one draw the line, but it IS an interesting topic.

[zybar]

Legitimate question. $30,000 is a lot of money. It's all well and good to rhapsodize over what comes out of the box but I think the topic of what goes in is fair game. These are not one of a kind collectibles, they are mass-produced consumer goods. The only thing that keeps these from flying off the assembly line at 500 units/hour is the lack of sufficient demand.
Much as we might like to think so, they are not works of art -- they are appliances.

If 2bigears wants to know why Lamm amps cost so much, you have to step aside and allow the inquiry, George.
Why does this topic bother you so much?

Because it never leads anywhere productive and always ends the same way...

I will just stop looking at these threads - that is probably a better approach.

George

[zybar]

Why does this topic bother you so much?

Only guessing, but maybe because, as the owner of some expensive gear himself, he doesn't care to hear people questioning (directly or indirectly) why he might have paid x amount for what he has, as you appear to do. I would say, you or anybody has the right to bring it up, and others have the right to take offense, and the green grass grows all around and around.  Making moral judgments about it is kinda silly, because where the heck does one draw the line, but it IS an interesting topic.

Has nothing to do with the fact that I own some expensive gear.

I also own some relatively "cheap" gear, as well as some cheap gear.

Price isn't a driver of what I buy (unless I can't afford it) or why this topic seems useless to me.

See my post above for the why...

George

[BradJudy]

As the owner of no expensive gear, I also don't care to see the topic re-hashed. 

This topic comes up repeatedly on audio forums and other venues and gets tossed around to no satisfying end, only to be brought back after a short rest. 

It's a topic that always goes nowhere. 

[ZLS]

  What part of a free market system does anybody not understand?
If you think that a product is priced too high, don't buy it.

[macrojack]

Expensive, inexpensive, neither is really the issue. What I think is being asked is simple enough. Is this product priced according to parts cost, etc. or is the price more of a test to see what the market will bear?
Surely, we are all aware that many audio products are priced far beyond any reasonable markup. Cable pricing certainly attests to that.
So, why do Wilson and Lamm and many others charge so much money for their goods? And why do we pay it?

[2bigears]

   ok,long and short,we have two camps.all i am saying is why can't they price in at 10k and sell  waaayyyy more amps than 30,000.00 and sell a handful.i can't think of how they put 30k worth of parts in those.now----no more dump question,over and out.

[miklorsmith]

I think the question is more of a clinical bent - not "what in the H-E-double hockeysticks could be worth that money?", rather, "seriously, what's in the box?"

I'm guessing supreme transformers, ridiculously pure wire, etc.  Lamm probably doesn't want people to know all of it.  Anybody familiar with Kondo and the unbelievable rigor AND art that goes into their stuff?  When you look at their process, the insane R&D, the vintage parts acquisition, and LONG production times it actually starts coming into focus.

[sts9fan]

point to point wire job is mostly an empty box.what gives??

No point to point here.  Lamm's are PCB.

Anyway so what is the circuit worth? 
Q: What if someone came up with the greatest amp circuit ever.  What would that be worth?

A: Whatever the inventor thinks it is. 

There is intellectual intangible goods being traded here.  You cannot look at the material parts and base the price just on that.  There is a bit of art in there.

[2bigears]

 fair enough,do you think though,Lamm could build,sell and live with a 10.000.00 price tag.everybody has to eat,we all know that,R&D for engineering is costly,but 30k?? i guess talk is cheap-- taste test the amp with a 10k dollar amp and if it's 3 times better,buy it. [law of diminished return comes into play with hi priced goods,it might sound 10% better]

[acresm22]

It's also about marketing, more so than art...
We can all pretty much agree that there isn't $30k worth of parts in the Lamms, nor is their $70k worth of parts in Wilson X1s. But both Lamm and Wilson are marketing to the buyer who believes that top price equals top performance...that same buyer who wouldn't even consider buying a piece of audio gear that wasn't extravagantly priced. I know at least two people like that in my area, and one of them, interestingly enough, owns the Lamm monos. The other owns a pair of Krell Master Reference monos.
I just bought a Ray Samuels Emmeline CA-2 pre on Agon yesterday. While researching this thing, I read Art Dudley's 2003 review on enjoythemusic.com. He talks about this very thing at the beginning of the piece. Dave Wilson decided long ago that he was going after the wealthy guy who's hi-fi equipment says as much about status as it does about performance. And its a marketing philosophy that has paid off very well for him.

[miklorsmith]

Does Lamm market?  I don't consistently read the print mags, so I don't know.

Owning the baby Lamm preamp, I'll testify they know what they're doing.  Build quality and sound are both killer.